Philadelphia Fire Dept Macks

[mack31]

Does anyone know if there any Philly Macks still around?

[Firemack]

One of the Philly Fire B model aerials is still around it was sold last year to a collector, who is doing some restoration before he takes it out.

Firemack

[heavyhauler]

I have the 100 ft aerial with a B85F tractor. I runs somewhat but is slated for some restoration work next summer. We may get the gas engine running properly and drive it to Macungie next year. Just a thought.

Best regards,

John

PS-have been busy with this project which is now finished.

[mack31]

Do you have any pictures of the ladder you can put up?

[heavyhauler]

I think this might be of interest for you.

Best regards,

John

[mack31]

Very nice. I am a philly firefighter. Nice to see it still around.

[heavyhauler]

It has taken several years to find a city property number-without it, the city of Philadelphia has no record of these trucks. They did not keep serial numbers-only city property numbers. This will be my next historical project but I suspect that the people who worked on these tillers have long since retired and perhaps have passed away. Any suggestions on how to find these people would be most welcome. I'll post a few more photos for you.

Best regards,

John

[fxfymn]

It has taken several years to find a city property number-without it, the city of Philadelphia has no record of these trucks. They did not keep serial numbers-only city property numbers. This will be my next historical project but I suspect that the people who worked on these tillers have long since retired and perhaps have passed away. Any suggestions on how to find these people would be most welcome. I'll post a few more photos for you.

It's not unusual for a municipality to only track rolling stock by their assigned number. I know that's how we did it.

Is there something specific you need for the tiller or are you just looking for general information about the tiller trucks Philly had?

Philadelphia, like most large cities, would place new tractors under old trailers, resulting in some rather bizzare match ups. As you are probably aware Mack did not make aerial ladders, using mostly Maxim ladders in the early years and various others such as Thiabault, Grove, and LTI later.

Your trailer looks like a Seagrave. Is it? If so, it probably did not come from Mack, but was created by the PFD shops.

Does anyone know if there any Philly Macks still around?

Apparently back in the day Philadelphia took very good care of their rigs and they disposed of them before they were totally shot as I have seen their older rigs placed in service by other cities. One of our club members has a 1955 Maxim TT that was a Philly truck before it was sold to Colonial Heights, VA where it was used for quite a while. Co. 22 in PGCO, MD also ran an old Philly ladder lovingly refered to as the "Philly Flyer".

Therefore, if you are looking for ex-Philadelphia trucks you may want to check around for rigs marked by other cities for that look like they are from Philly.

[heavyhauler]

This tiller is a 1950 American LaFrance unit. The city of Philadelphia had 3 of these rigs mated to 1950 American LaFrance open cab tractors. I have conflicting stories about the tractors but basically, there were problems with the V10 gas engines, particularly trying to get them started. There were other complaints so in 1961, the city ordered 3 Mack B85F open cab single axle tractors to replace the ailing American LaFrance units. The city disposed of the complete rigs in the late 1970's. One unit was scrapped, one unit was pulled from a scrap yard and underwent a 2 year complete restoration. It is owned by Wayne King who lives in Owen Sound, Ontario. My unit was sold to the city of Oaklyn, NJ for $1. The city spent $10,000 and thousands of man hours restoring this unit. It changed hands once more before I bought it. My interest is in obtaining some detailed history on this unit and perhaps obtain photos of the truck in action. I would like to interview anyone who worked with any of these 3 units.Your thoughts or suggestions would be most helpful. I have posted a picture of Wayne King's unit.

Best regards,

John

It's not unusual for a municipality to only track rolling stock by their assigned number. I know that's how we did it.

Is there something specific you need for the tiller or are you just looking for general information about the tiller trucks Philly had?

Philadelphia, like most large cities, would place new tractors under old trailers, resulting in some rather bizzare match ups. As you are probably aware Mack did not make aerial ladders, using mostly Maxim ladders in the early years and various others such as Thiabault, Grove, and LTI later.

Your trailer looks like a Seagrave. Is it? If so, it probably did not come from Mack, but was created by the PFD shops.

Apparently back in the day Philadelphia took very good care of their rigs and they disposed of them before they were totally shot as I have seen their older rigs placed in service by other cities. One of our club members has a 1955 Maxim TT that was a Philly truck before it was sold to Colonial Heights, VA where it was used for quite a while. Co. 22 in PGCO, MD also ran an old Philly ladder lovingly refered to as the "Philly Flyer".

Therefore, if you are looking for ex-Philadelphia trucks you may want to check around for rigs marked by other cities for that look like they are from Philly.

[fxfymn]

I should have known it was an American L by the position of the lift cylinders. Missed that one!

That's a beautiful tractor you restored. Brings back memories of some of the rigs I knew when I was a kid.

Have you been in contact with, or do you belong to, any of the PA SPAAMFAA clubs? There maybe someone in the club who has knowledge of the rig's history or of someone who worked with the rig. I lucked out when I bought my 52 because a member of our SPAAMFAA club had actually ridden on the rig when it was in Richmond, VA. He knows exactly what it should look like and where it served, etc.

Did the tractors came from the local Mack franchise or were they Mack built? If they were converted by the PFD shop you may have some luck locating someone who worked at the Mack dealer or the PFD shop that knows something about them.

If you haven't done so yet you may want to get in contact with the Philly Fire Museum Fireman's Hall. I would also check to see if Philly has a retiree's organization. Most FD's do. If they do, they probably meet on a regular basis for lunch or breakfast. That would be a good place to try to hook up with someone who worked at the company you are looking for and they would probably be more amenable to talk about the old days than the folks who are currently on the job.

Unfortunately, most career firefighters consider the rig to be just a ride to the fire and do not give it much thought. Rigs and duty assignments tend to change regularly. For most of the folks on the job the only reason to remember a particular rig is if it was exceptionally fast, slow, or unreliable. The unreliable ones stick with you because you get tired of going to get, and switch over to, a reserve rig.

[1958 F.W.D.]

If you haven't done so yet you may want to get in contact with the Philly Fire Museum Fireman's Hall.

CONTACT HARRY MAGEE AT FIREMAN'S HALL. Harry is a uniformed Philadelphia Firefighter, permanently detailed to the museum as the curator. Give him a yell during business hours (except mondays when the Museum is closed) and yak with him....tell him what you are looking for. I am sure he could come up with the companies it was assigned to, and see what he has laying around in the archives. He may also be able to see if the companies themselves have anything in their individual archives or hanging up on the walls.

[mack31]

Do you have an email address for Wayne King?

[heavyhauler]

Allow me to address some of your suggestions. I was in Philadelphia a few years ago for an AACA Awards dinner and I made a point of visiting the museum. Everyone would like to help after I tell them what I am trying to do but they ALWAYS ask for the city property number. Without it, there is no way they can search the city data base. I think one of the property numbers is as follows but I will post the pic that shows the number although its not clear. I think its I3 or 13-E2565. What's your take? Its painted on the lower left front bumper. I am assuming that city property numbers would be consecutive for these three Mack American LaFrance tillers. Any ideas?

It appears that the tractors were delivered from Mack directly to the city. It's not clear from the build records what options they were delivered with-I'll check with the Mack Museum again to see if there may be some additional info.

I have attended a few fire truck shows but until I get the truck actually in front of people, it's rather difficult to get one's attention. I have been invited to bring the truck to the Philadelphia Fire Truck muster which I believe is held in the Fall of every year. I will also forward the photo I have to the Fire Hall Museum to see what they can make of the property number. I really appreciate your help and comments.

Regarding Wayne King, I do not have an email address for him-just phone numbers. Send a private email message to b813sx@gmail.com and I'll give you his phone numbers.

Best regards,

John

[1958 F.W.D.]

Everyone would like to help after I tell them what I am trying to do but they ALWAYS ask for the city property number.

You really, really need to hook up with Harry Magee. He is a super buff and PFD historian, and knows ways to "get around the property numbers." Anyone else at the Museum (no offense to them) are usually just light-duty firefighters who could really care less about apparatus. And if Harry cannot find what you need without the city property numbers, he knows guys who kept track of that stuff and keep good records.

[heavyhauler]

OK, I will contact Harry today and ask for his very able assistance. Many thanks.

John

[mack31]

Here is another picture heavyhauler

[heavyhauler]

Ryan:

Where did that pic come from? Did you get a chance to talk to Wayne King?

John

[mack31]

John

It has been on my computer for awhile i forgot about it. Just found it the other day. And yes I did by I cant afford what he wants.

Ryan

[bulldogg]

Any ideas were the CF aerialscopes went to????

[1958 F.W.D.]

Any ideas were the CF aerialscopes went to????

The single screw scope sat outside that grain place next to I95 (the one with the 2 huge grain tanks in Port Richmond) with all the other heavy equipment for years. Dont know what ever happened to it after that.

[heavyhauler]

Ryan:

Can you give me some detail about the pic that you last posted. What unit is it? Do you have a serial number or a property number of that rig. Here is another one for you.

Best regards,

John

[mack31]

Alls i know is that it is Ladder 20

[mack31]

Bulldog and 1958 F.W.D.

The name of the company that the Mack Tower Ladder was sitting at is James J Anderson Consruction. I called them the other day as its not sitting there anymore and asked if the still had or what happened to it. They put me on hold three times everytime I asked a question and than came back and aid they werent interested and they were not giving me any mor info. So thats where that stands.

[cf685f]

Ok, I talked to my boss Chief McGrath. He retired from Philly as a Chief, so I filled him in on the conversation here on the forum. His father worked on the engine that run out of the station( I think Eng30) and he played on L20 as a kid.

I am sending him the pictures posted here. He filled me in on the property number. Tags and titles were not used. They used 6 digit numbers to identify the piece of equipment. The first two digitals tell the year the truck was built and the next 4 digitals identify the unit. He also said it was painted on the truck in atleast for places.

If you go to Phillyfirenews.com the pictures in the forums it show these numbers painted on the equipment even today.

He knows for sure that Harry Magee can help. He is a 5th generation Philly FF.

In those pictures your right that white number has to be its property number. He also told me that they have an officer that is responsible for all apparatus, and that he was sure that many of the old folders on these trucks still exist.

Cant wait to learn about what you find out, as he cant wait to learn more about your truck. He was so exicted to know that it still existed.

Tim H

[heavyhauler]

Ok, I talked to my boss Chief McGrath. He retired from Philly as a Chief, so I filled him in on the conversation here on the forum. His father worked on the engine that run out of the station( I think Eng30) and he played on L20 as a kid.

I am sending him the pictures posted here. He filled me in on the property number. Tags and titles were not used. They used 6 digit numbers to identify the piece of equipment. The first two digitals tell the year the truck was built and the next 4 digitals identify the unit. He also said it was painted on the truck in atleast for places.

If you go to Phillyfirenews.com the pictures in the forums it show these numbers painted on the equipment even today.

He knows for sure that Harry Magee can help. He is a 5th generation Philly FF.

In those pictures your right that white number has to be its property number. He also told me that they have an officer that is responsible for all apparatus, and that he was sure that many of the old folders on these trucks still exist.

Cant wait to learn about what you find out, as he cant wait to learn more about your truck. He was so exicted to know that it still existed.

Tim H

Tim:

I have written to Harry and sent some of the photos from this conversation and some others that I had. I found his business card that he gave me the last time I was at the museum so let's see what he comes up with.

John