RoadwayR

Otosan will probably go after the Venezuelan market next. Of course they will have to lend them money to buy the trucks..........

I don't see any need at all for Navistar and Ford to have any sort of relationship regardless of how far the Ford/VW agreement goes.

Major points, more or less in order: Ford and Navistar split for good over the 6.0L Powerstroke debacle. Navistar has a joint venture with GM for medium duty truck production, and assembly of GM's cut-away van chassis models. Likely more to come. Navistar has a relationship with Traton (formally VW's truck group) for diesel engines and other components sharing and parts procurement. Traton owns 17% of Navistar. Will Traton ever buy more or all of Navistar? Who knows. VW is spinning off their truck unit, now know as Traton. It will be a completely separate entity from VW cars, but VW Group will likely retain some ownership. GM sold off all European operations to Peugeot, including JV van production. GM is completely out of auto manufacturing in Europe (I think a good move). VW (cars) and Ford: Speculation on my part, but I think Ford wants out of auto manufacturing in Europe but not necessarily out of the European market. VW could conceivably make this happen by taking over Ford's manufacturing in Europe and with car platform sharing between Ford and VW. VW could get access to Ford's Transit van in Europe, and possibly the new Ranger in the U.S. and other markets. I do not see this deal having anything to do with larger commercial trucks, only the Ranger and Transit. VW is scary. It may well be the least efficient auto manufacture in the world. It has too many plants and too many employees for the number of vehicles it produces. In some respects it's a quasi-socialist organization owned and controlled to a large extent by the Government of Lower Saxony in Germany. I think VW will do whatever it takes to survive and would gladly sacrifice Ford to do so. I see this as potentially much worse than DaimlerChrysler. Will GM be the last U.S. owned auto manufacturer in a couple of years?

And I suspect there will be more GM/Navistar joint venture trucks.

https://media-cf.assets-cdk.com/teams/repository/export/7f0/c40e0d000100580840050568b5709/7f0c40e0d000100580840050568b5709.pdf

My understanding is most all of this applies to the 4500 and 5500 as well. I think some of the longer wheelbases are restricted to the heavier series trucks. I think about all Chevy really needs to add to these trucks is a gasoline/CNG/LNG engine and 22.5" wheels for the 6500's. Gas engine is reported to be coming for the 2020 model year.

Straight 34" frame rail spacing with nothing, not even a rivet head, protruding from the top of the rails. Nothing hanging off the sides of the rails behind the cab. I think the man said 7 different wheel bases. Easy electrical interface for upfitter. Rear air suspension a factory option. This will get them a lot of ambulance, bus, and 'Super C' motorhome business. DEF filler in right front fender. Upfitter doesn't have to install one. Many Allison transmission options. They are all 2000 series, but specific calibrations for various vocations. I liked the old 4500/5500 Kodiak, but this truck is a lot more competitive. Looks like the price will be competitive too.

I got a chance to see a Silverado 6500 2 weeks ago. It's an impressive truck with some innovative features.

Why did Ford have to rely on an Austrian company to engineer their diesel? Wait, forget I asked.........

They should bring those to North America, I think there is a small but worthwhile market for them. I am sure Isuzu's AMT is a fine transmission, but a torque converter as a big advantage off road.

Those 'Ram 6500' trucks were cobbled up by Chrysler Mexico around 1996. They were not much more than the then-new 'BR' Ram cab stuck on the old 1974 D-600 chassis. The 70's era D medium duty trucks went out of production in the U.S. at the end of 1977, but continued to be built in Mexico due to their popularity in that market. There was some talk about bringing the big Ram to the U.S., but I think taxes and the lack of Chrysler dealers equipped to handle commercial trucks ended the idea. No matter, the medium duty Rams were dropped in 1999. Daimler didn't want Dodge competing with Freightliner.

You forgot the scooters. I am really curious to see where this GM/Navistar thing leads. I think there's potentially enough business for them to make both sides happy. But, it's going to come at the expense of some other players in the field........... I went to the L.A. Auto Show today, and Chevy had a 6500HD crew cab 2 yd. dump on display. Yes, it does appear to be aimed squarely at the low profile F-650. Looking at the frame and suspension components, it's clearly more truck than an F-550 or Ram 5500. Ram also had a nice 5500 4X4 crew cab flatbed there. Ford didn't bring any commercial vehicles, but in their defense it really isn't the venue for work trucks.

Well, if you want to get technical..... The current Allison 1000 series transmission was developed by Allison when it was still owned by GM. When GM spun off Allison, GM kept the 1000 series transmission, rights to the Allison name, and the Baltimore plant it was produced in. So, was the 1000 still really an Allison? You decide. This new heavy duty 10 speed is something of a mystery. I do not believe it is the 10 speed light duty transmission that was co-developed by GM and Ford (and is now in some versions of the F-150). Adding to the mystery is reports that Ford will also have an all new heavy duty 10 speed in the Super Duty next year replacing the current Torq-Shift 6. That bit of news caught me by surprise, I thought the Torq-Shift 6 was a great transmission and has only been around 8 or so years. Question: Is GM's new 'Allison branded' 10 speed going to be related to Ford's new 10 speed?

Makes sense. I was figuring maybe NAV was unloading their defense business in order to facilitate a merge with Traton. I remember when Renault's ownership of AMC reached a certain percentage they had to divest AMGeneral.

Why? Unless: I seem to remember there are certain DOD regulations regarding foreign ownership of defense contractors........

Doesn't look any worse than some of the late model Lexus cars and SUV's! You what is really crazy? Between the Tundra and the class 3-4 Hino Toyota doesn't offer any class 3 conventional trucks. No 3/4 or 1 ton pickups, no chassis-cabs. Why?

I was trying to think where/when I saw the last stand-alone commercial truck GMC dealer in Southern California. The was the old 'factory' store that was once near downtown that moved to Santa Fe Springs, but they closed around 1996. They was a small one in Van Nuys, but they went to selling Isuzu after GM quit medium duty. As far as the 'big' commercial truck dealers are/were concerned, seems to me that most that were selling GMC's also had one or two other brands (Freightliner, ect.). Are any of the 8 remaining GMC-only dealers exclusively commercial truck? No question a lot of GM dealers got burned when GM exited the commercial medium duty market. Just like Sterling, UD, Iveco, Dodge, Brockway, and Diamond Reo dealers. A few GMC commercial truck dealers lost the franchises when GM heavy truck merged with Volvo/White. And some Ford dealers didn't get Sterling franchises either. BTW- Somewhere I have a copy of an old 'GMC News' issue that extols the virtues of selling pickups and other light trucks for private use to GMC dealers. It's dated 1966.........

GMC division is making FAR more money building expensive light trucks and SUV's than they ever did with commercial trucks, that's why. Ain't no boat to miss.

I think both the 2020 Ram HD and the upcoming GM heavy duty pickups and medium duty chassis-cabs are going to significantly eat into Ford's market share. I also noted in the GM news that one of the plants slated for closure is the Baltimore transmission plant. That plant was the part of Allison that GM kept, and for the last several years has manufactured the 1000 series transmission for GM trucks along with some of the 2000 series transmissions for other OEM's. I wonder if production of those transmissions will transfer to another GM plant or move to an Allison facility.

First Emeryville. Came in both cabover and conventional, aluminum cab, Cummins H or Hall-Scott gasoline power, maybe a few had Buda's. Rare truck.

Yes, but I was referring to introducing 4 cylinder diesels to the U.S. medium market. Detroit 4-53 not withstanding!

Isuzu really started something, didn't they? I am starting to see a lot of FTR's around L.A. too.

Bye-bye diesel, hello CNG?

New class 4/5, courtesy of their JV with GM: https://cumberland-companies.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/CV-SpecSheet-04.pdf

Rumors are swirling that the F-650 and 750 will be axed in 2020, but Ford officially states they remain committed to medium duty.