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The price of any rig really depends on rarity and condition. Semi-open cab LS-85's are not all that rare, so the price is driven primarily by condition for this truck. The only way to determine condition is to look at it in person, drive it, pump it, and check out what tools and accesories are on it. If it is rust free, runs and pumps well with good oil pressure and doesn't overheat, good overall paint, has good real gold leaf, bell, red lights, siren, small tools all in place and working would place it at an 7 to a 8 out of 10. New paint with real gold leaf and all other conditions as the first example would make it a 8 to 9 out of 10. The 10 is total restoration, which means every nut and bolt is turned and every component is brought back to factory fresh. A 7 to 8 should bring 6 to 10K. An 8 to 9 should bring 8 to 12k tops. A total restoration will cost the owner upwards of 100k and would sell in the 20k to who knows range. A friend recently bought an LS85 that had fifty year old paint, was missing the bell, ran great, and has a solid body. He paid 4k for it. In the end any truck sells for what the buyer is willing to pay. Buying is almost always an emotional decision based on how much you love the truck. As long as you realize that you will not make money on the purchase and you view it as you would a boat purchase for example you should buy it if the price seems reasonable to you despite what any of us tells you. Send me a pm if you want my e-mail and cell phone number to ask any questions you have while you are looking at the truck.

The only return on investment you ever get in this hobby is pride of ownership. Even the .01% my bank gives me is a higher return than I have ever made on an old truck. I'm sure someone out there was able to steal a perfect rig for $500.00 and sell it for $5000.00, but it has never happened to me, and I'm sure it never will. To me it is no different than owning a boat, an airplane, or any other toy. It will cost me, but I'll get a lot of pleasure out of it while I own it. And I'll stay out of divorce court since I'm in the garage all day and staying out of the DW's world!

I'm guessing you already changed the transfer case oil to ensure there are no unwanted shavings floating around from the shift grind?

Get involved with a local chapter of ATCA or ATHS. Most members have an inkling of when a rig is going to be sold or of an owner who would sell if asked. My experience is that collectors are interested in seeing that their rigs and projects go to another collector and they will sell to them. They don't like to advertise since they don't want the rig exported or cut up. Go to the national and local truck shows. There are always rigs for sale there. The other absolute about finding something you want is to be relentless about following up on sources. Check EBay and the Truck Paper regularly. Check the classifieds here daily. Remember the four D's of why folks sell: Death, Divorce, Debt, & Disease. Keep an eye on the local auction sites. The auction site AuctionZip serves as a locater for auctions. Subscribe to any auctioneer's site that seems to sell a lot of trucks. i.e. Roy Teitsworth in suburban NY.

If anyone is looking for a sign painter that still does the work free hand ask around at any antique fire truck show. Most of us want original looking gold leaf and lettering on our rigs so we know who is still doing that kind of work. I have a great guy in Richmond if anyone has a need around here.

All you need to get one to run backwards is an inexperienced driver (me), a pos LaFrance ladder truck with a 6-71 Detroit, and a hill. Stop on the hill, let it roll backwards, pop the clutch, briefly stall the engine until the momentum starts the engine back up going backwards. Fill the neighborhood with smoke while everyone else on the truck gets a good laugh when you can't find the emergency shut off! You have never seen smoke from a diesel until you have had one running backwards. It will kill every mosquito for miles around. Besides being very good at turning diesel fuel into noise one of the other endearing feature of the Detroits and fire trucks was the builders propensity to put the emergency shut off handle near the pto handle so when you needed the aerial ladder an inexperienced (or someone with a case of the big eye) driver would pull the shut off instead of the pto. And no I never did that trick.

Very nice. Is that a KW mud flap I see?

You are correct, but if the repair is 2k and entire truck can be had for 2k it would be worth it since I'm sure they will do the repair themselves. An acquitance just bought a CF for 3200 straight out of the firehouse that the VFD had put 60k into 5 or 6 years ago. It looks like new. They are out there.

There are tons of CF's for sale. Make sure you compare the repair cost with just buying a spare and swapping out the transfer case from the donor to your truck. I would start looking for a parts truck asap on the classified section here and on the SPAAMFAA web site. A rough CF should cost you around 2K. A pretty nice one can be had for less than 5K. Combine some cash with a donation letter from the VFD to a seller so he/she can take the tax write off and you should be able to do even better.

Here are some pictures: The white B Model is B85F-1001. The early B model ladder is owned by the Pa. Fire Museum The late model B ladder is ex-Harrisburg A very nice E model The purple rig is dedicated to abolishing domestic violence; the Mack are pumping from the river. Lots of CF's were there, including a couple for sale. 1968 CF; Chassis number 15 if I remember correctly The last picture is my 1952 Type 75A

A reporter in a near by town wrote that someone had watched a coyote kill over 20 fawns in a two week period. If that's true I'll take any coyotes you want to send here! I'm so frigging tired of the deer eating everything we plant.

My 52 used the engine SN as the VIN when the city of Richmond sold it in the seventies. One of these days when I feel the need to get frustrated I'm going to try to fix it at DMV. You may be better off to do a lost title procedure with DMV if their process isn't too difficult. If you have an in with law enforcement ask them to run the chassis number you have just to ensure it is not already being used. If it is you will have to re-group and come up with a new plan.

Hot as hell here! At least we have A/C which I'm sure many of you Northerners lack. At least we didn't lose the power like many of my neighbors did a week ago Friday. There are still some folks who have not had power restored from that storm in the D.C. area that happened over a week ago.

Now reveal the real reason the Illinois Governeor didn't shoot the coyote: They don't allow inmates to have guns!

I thought I saw you at a campaign stop for the President. I figured his re-election was keeping you busy.

Congrats. Tim Henshaw is just up the road from you in Raleigh and he is quite knowlegable about CF's. He is president of the local SPAAMFAA chapter and can be reached thtrough their web site. http://rekindlesociety.com/Home_Page.php Post a couple of pictures please.

Go look at the picture again closely; my bet is the front bumper is either solid or concrete filled. The uprights and other wrecker parts are solid steel, not trussed. The weight has to be pushed up on a short wheel base wrecker to make it work. That's why new HD wreckers are so long. It will easily top 15k at the scales.

As Jim said brake parts are relatively easy to locate. The PN will be on the wheel cylinders and the master cylinder. An internet search based on the PN will probably turn up some results. The linings can be re-lined by any number of shops. Brake boosters are available or can be re-built. Write the Mack Museum with the chassis number to get the owners manual and any history they have on the truck. You can also ask them to send you the PN of the door and any other parts you are searching for. The service is free, but a donation for the service is always appreciated. (and expected by most of the folks on this site)

Don't know the exact weight, but it weighs enough to preclude the use of the roll back you specified. Wrecker bodies are made to be heavy in order to counter act the weight of the towed vehicle. (Think seesaws; if the towed vehicle outweighs the wrecker it will lift the front of the wrecker up) I'd bet it started life as something other than a wrecker, so make sure you check out the body mounting. I've seen some pretty jury rigged add ons. Not unusual to find a door change has resulted in a bad chassis number tag. Check the front right frame horn for the chassis number.

So the truck was incorrectly built to begin with? Why are you wasting time on the low level types? Keep pushing the complaint higher in the food chain until you find someone who has the clout to fix it. Send it directly to the president of Mack. If he doesn't care about the company's reputation no one will.

All there except for all of the blind caps. Truth in advertising. Come on man!

Far from an NFPA fan; remember their purpose in life is to sell books, not to promote firefighter safety, but the real "villian" behind the standards having the weight of law is the roof rope case in NYC and the Brookline apparatus death from falling out of the jump seat. In both cases the gist of the decisions revolved around the fact that while the standards are not law they are the accepted standard of care. Since then most organizations strive to comply with the standards as a means to protect themselves from liability. Go with the automatic tranny. In the long run it will be more efficient and safer to operate. I have driven both in pretty busy places and while it may lack the "cool" factor of shifting it does allow the driver to concentrate on the road and what is happening around him/her. One other thought concerning your original question: Visit other places that have recently purchased a tanker and drive them. If you find one that suits your needs ask to copy their specs. If they refuse, which is doubtful, ask for them under a freedom of information request.

Since I was the photographer your's truly is not in the shot, but at least I made it.

The job I was on has four Mack/Pierce tankers less than four years old. They will build them. The proper way to go about this is to draw up a set of specifications that you desire, including the chasis of your choice. The manufacturers will than have the opportunity to take exceptions to the specs as long as they are equivelant. It is than up to the purchasers to decide if the exceptions are acceptable. Be very careful about specifying specific engines, trannys, etc. Instead ask for performance. For example: " The rig shall pump 1000 gpm, have a 3000 gallon tank capapable of dumping in less than 90 seconds without the operator leaving the driver's seat. It shall accelerate to 45 mph in less than 75 seconds using a diesel engine driven through an automatic transmission and shall stop in less than 150 feet when the brakes are applied at 45 mph." That way the vendor is picking the right power train package and you can hold them to it if the rig fails to perform to specs.

Neat stuff. Half the fun is hunting down the "right" stuff for the truck. In the fire truck arena we try real hard to make sure all the extinguishers, nozzles, tools, etc. are what would have been on the truck when it was in service.