heh,,yeah, I hear you Lmack. I logged for several years with my dad (may he rest in peace) and he was just a man who really commanded respect. He was a short stocky man, huge arms, very dark, actually half apache indian and was very quiet and mannerly, (if treated respectfully). We went in to a Case equipment dealer one time with a stripped hydraulic pump, dad laid it on counter, parts man (a big fellow) complained bout oil on counter, dad appologized, guy looked it up in book, went in back and came back with a pump in box. Dad opened box, and was really giving pump a good looking over and rolling it around making sure it would match. The man said "You gonna buy that pump or just keep f*cking my counter up, you already got oil all over it!" I took a step back cause I knew my dad well. Dad slid old pump to one side, new pump to other side, and in a lightning move reached over counter and completely drug big fellow all way across and onto floor. I think the guy just went into shock, Dad bent down and said "I cleaned your g*ddam counter off for you, you smart mouth SOB, now you best learn you some manners, and if you wanna go any further than this, just get up off your big fat ass, and les have a go". The guy just laid there, dad slowly walked out door, we got in truck and I said "I guess we better locate nuther Case dealer,,huh?" Hope that wasnt a boring story, just kinda goes with treating people right. randyp