bell206b3

I had a thread going on another forum, where I spend most of my truck related internet time. I've been there for a while, and have more personal relationship w/ some folks over there... but you guys here welcomed me openly, and answered my questions, even if they did seem strange to you. And when I read my own postings... they did sound strange. It is clear to me that I really liked the Mack, but it wasn't exactly what I wanted. It could have been, but at an extreme expense, only to possibly still not be the truck I dream of... Also, on the other forum the thread was just as popular as here... as guys dimed in and out on the Mack, an A model, and my cabover. Many of them were onboard when I bought the KW and have watched her return from retirement as a farm truck, into a working member of the heavy duty truck society. Someone here said... "it ought to be interesting to see this pan out... " With that said... I'll copy and paste the final decision... Here it is... _______________________________________________________________________________________________ I wanted to thank all who have commented on this thread, and particularily those who sent me PMs or emails. There was a poster who referred me to a post I had written a few weeks ago, about how much I loved my cabover. And for all she is, and for all she isn't... she's a good ole truck that has safely taken me 50,000 miles... so... after much thought... I'm keeping the cabover. It is not done. I said I was going to finish it and I am. I also learned that writing about my health was theraputic for me... I am giving the possibility of cancer a firm "one finger salute..." I'm digging my heels in the ground and finishing MY FREAKIN TRUCK. I will deal with my health and their surgeries on my terms and timetable. My upholstery man says he can fabricate some sort of arrangement w/ the passenger seat to take care of my "equipment requirements" after the surgery... And Chris (aka Wings2Wheels) says he has seen the same thing in some of the corporate aircraft he has flown. So... I am going to tackle this one piece at a time, starting w/ sound deadening and carpet. Then I'm after the rattles in the dash and the substandard air conditioning. I agree that the Mack is awesome, but the cabover is mine. And in 400 miles yesterday at least a half a dozen people said something about MY truck. I saw Mike Grubb in his blue Marmon. I see him everywhere. Actually seeing him helped me make my decision... That Marmon is his, unmistakeably... I have never met Mike, but I KNOW that is his truck. There is only one like it. There are many Superliners... there is only ONE cabover that looks like mine. The other thing that made my mind up, was the surprising "intense fellowship" that my wife and I had Sunday night. She "firmly" made her point. It was a one-sided conversation. I can sum it up like this... I said I was stretching my truck, and I will... this year. I said I was building a performance minded Big Cam... and I will... this year. She never was a big fan of the COE, but we have a rule from day 1... finish what you start, say what you mean, and do what you say. As this progresses the pics will be here for you all to see... until then... picture this... The old b***h with a 240ish wheelbase, fully polished, and chained to the dyno at Antrim Diesel... cause she'll be there... this summer for sure. Thank you to all... Tom ________________________ And so endth the chapter... thanks again, and as major changes occur to my beloved '79 Kenworth, I will post up a picture or two for you folks here as well.

I have seen the posted blue Mack in person. It is immaculate...with that said... I appreciate the posts... All in all, I think that keeping my cabover for now is most appropriate for me. I like the Superliner, because it is unique, but ultimately I would have to spend way too much money to make it what I want. One of the biggest hangups for me on the whole deal was that I had not finished the restoration of my COE. For me, completing that, at some point is important. Rob, you bring up some great points. I have worked two jobs the past two years while my wife was in nursing school. We had to take loans for it, but we know her new position is well worth the investment. The kids have 529 plans, and I see the value, not only in their education, but also in graduating debt-free. Again, many thanks, I will check with the owner to see if he minds if I post his contact information on this site. Regards, Tom P.S. No Peterbilts for me :-) Everyone has one of them.

That LT is sharp... I did not realize that was the model the poster was referring too. You mention you make your living in transportation... I'm wondering if it is the the same style of transportation I do... hence the user id... bell206b3

Rob, The tires are 30%, but they aren't that old. The truck has been owned by the same fellow for 20 years, but was working until 10 months ago. I can't imagine the previous owner ran them 100K plus miles if they were old... I will check sidewalls to confirm though, as you bring up an excellent point. I agree with many of your points, on old tires, cabovers, taking the tires off my machine, the works. I'm certainly a long way from a final decision... but as I think about it now... tihs Mack might be a "right" truck... but just not "the" right truck. I will look at that LT truck... but it doesn't have the "old" appearance that keeps me out there going down the road. If it looks like it was popular in the 1970s or early 1980s, that's what I am after.

Tremendously well written. And I do see the difference in the two pictures posted in the reply a couple above this, but it took your post to make me think about it and really LOOK at the pictures. This is what I see... One trucks looks completely natural, and is obviously an old school hard-working truck. This kind of truck you don't see anymore, kind of like my cabover. Their working days have gone by. Maybe someone uses them part-time or they goto shows. They rode hard, but worked hard, and you could fix them, with SAE tools, duct tape, and a test light. They dripped oil, and rattled. Their dashboards were metal. They were made to last, and did. Our grandfathers drove them. I love that old Mack. The other Mack is trying to be old school, but isn't. Its 1988 model year sticks it somewhere in the middle, at least for the next decade or so. I am attracted to the truck itself because it is tough, it is a Mack, and it is fully overhauled and ready to work for a reasonable amount of money. Now add the Double Eagle bunk... That changes the truck significantly. It reminds me of a the time I saw my buddy, who does road construction and is one tough dude, dressed in a suit. The suit fit him... but he didn't necessarily look right in it. It was different, not in bad way. Just different. Now enter in this 60" Able bunk I found. I don't think that would get the same negative reaction from you folks, or negatively affect the value, or create a significant sunken investment, as the bunk could be bought reasonably, then restored by me. It would have the interior I wanted it to have, and would look correct on the truck. The body line boils down to this... 1. Do I want a Mack or an A model? And I do understand they are two completely different ladies... Thanks again.

This is excellent advice. I agree with everything you wrote, except one thing. I don't necessarily see taking my 10 brand new Goodyears on the 10 freshly polished, and fully balanced aluminum wheels, as robbing anything other than $4500 worth of new tires, and $1000 worth of rims. To me it makes good business sense. That $5500 investment, does not add $5500 worth of value to the COE. I could machine polish the Mack wheels, with their 30% virgin Dunlops, and they would make fine tires/wheels for the next owner of the COE, should I choose to sell it. I love that DE bunk, but it does make my investment in this truck quite significant, and that investment would exceed the value of the truck, this alone does concern me. The other problem with that $23K+ bunk... it ONLY fits on a Mack (because of the exhaust recesses). So should I ever sell the Mack, the bunk could not be removed, and the 36" reinstalled. I have money tied up in the COE this is true, but when all is said and done, and if I sell the truck, I do believe I will come out ahead (albeit slightly). "Wants a hood..." Exactly right... 100% agreed. I really appreciate your comments... this is the kind of advice I am seeking.

Also, can a V8 be swapped in at a later date? This 350hp 4 valve is 100% freshly overhauled.

I like it in this paint scheme... and 10-4 on the old hood... How about the old 4 headlight round lights from an early Superliner, will they work in the existing square headlight hood?

This is a sketch of the bunk that I am interested in... And I would like to know if it is possible to mount this style hood on the Superliner, and what is involved in doing so... Thanks TOM

Drove both the Mack and an extended hood A this week. The Mack was bobtail and the A had a trailer on... that's not really a fair comparison. Of course the A drove like a Cadillac, but it has a 290" wheelbase, all new tires and wheels. It has a 72" Double Eagle flattop, a 6NZ Caterpillar, and a 15spd. The owner has at least $85,000 in it. The Mack drove a lot like my cabover. It has a little bounce/hop to it, of course we were bobtail, and this isn't really a fair comparison. My cabover bounces/hops when it is bobtailing, but is smooth when it has some weight on. The other day I rode in an extended hood A (bobtail) that bounced/hopped. I know the owner has over $100000 in it. Frankly I was quite surprised (with the A). I do feel part of the issue on my test ride in the Superliner came from the tires, which are mostly worn. It seems to be that it could use an alignment as well, although there is no odd tire wear. I have ten new Goodyears on my cabover and I imagine if I put them on the Mack, plus the Centramatics (from the COE) I think it would be a different truck altogether. For both the A and the Mack I would prefer some sort of cruise control, that would make the longer trips a little more enjoyable. I'm going to check with Cruise King today to see if they do cruise control on mechanical Macks. If anyone has information on this, it would be appreciated. I received information from Double Eagle Sleepers yesterday. They are amazing. They do not come cheap. I also got pictures of a 60" Able that needs full restoration. I've got a lot to think about with this whole deal right now. I appreciate your help and comments, and if I do not buy the Mack I will post up its location and the owners phone number. Best Regards, TOM

I really appreciate all the comments. There are things I like about both trucks. I am getting tons of messages on LargeCarMag as well. Of course many of them are partial to the A model. I'm going to go drive one of them this week too. Then I'm bobtailing the cabover to Connecticut to pick up a trailer (with a steam boiler in it) that I dropped off up there in October... aaaahhhhhhh

I drove it and weighed it today. It weighs 17240lbs w/ two half tanks of fuel and no gear in the sideboxes. That is very reasonable and on par w/ my COE. It has a slight bucking going down the road (ride wise) -- The engine runs and sounds great, and the cab is very tight and quiet. The exhaust is super quiet. I took note that there are no cupholders :-( --- and that the pyrometer is hard to see in its current location. The transmission shifts fine w/ no odd noises, and overall I was pretty impressed. It is, however, to small inside w/o a bigger sleeper. Let me spend some time thinking about what I am going to do, and if I decide against I will post up the number. TOM

And I would stripe it... probably charcoal grey w/ black highlights... painted of course... no vinyl. And I actually prefer the round headlight appearance... But that would necessitate changing the horns. Around and around I go... makes me wonder why I buy trucks then spend thousands of dollars changing them into something else. That's exactly what I did w/ the COE, and I'm still not satisfied w/ that.

I would love to know the date for the Macungie show... I don't know if I qualify as a collector... that depends on your definition. I am an operator for sure... and I love trucks... thats for sure... I can guarantee this... If I buy the truck, it will be worked and loved... take a look at my COE, that's how it looks everytime it hits the road. 38000 miles last year, and I'm on course to do more than that this year. I do ALL the maintenance on it, including swapping the trans, and working on the rears. As for the Mack... I love it, but I need the bigger bunk. I am partial to the look of dual exhaust, the original longer wheelbase, and nice a stainless flap arrangement with lights, of course I would like the big chrome bumper, w/ some lights hanging out on the ends only. The big shield has to go too. I would fix up the dash, of course keeping it original, just straightening everything up, and would replace the worn toggles w/ some quality ones. The non-functioning trans temp gauge must be fixed as well. The steering wheel needs to be changed to suit me, I would prefer the old-school ivory one like in my COE, but would consider something custom if it fit the theme overall. If you folks believe that modifying this truck will detract from the value, I'd like to know that as well. I know when we see A models or Pete 359s "butchered" it is almost a sin... If that is the overall feeling from the Mack crowd as well, then I would definitely like to know.... I am attracted to this truck's uniqueness... and to the fact it is rare... and to the legendary MACK name and reputation. My intention, 100%, is to build it to my liking, polish the dickens out of it, then work the Dawg to pay for itself and provide some extra money for my family. You won't hurt my feelings, I'm new to Mack, and new here... fire away.

The previous owner has ALL the paperwork, and I mean all... heck he even has the original wiring diagram, from MACK, laminated. I am definitely a custom / unique truck junky... I have to have what others don't, and this seems to fit the bill. I love the old A model KWs too, but they demand a premium that a part-time guy like me can't afford. Can you folks venture an opinion on fuel mileage if driven responsibly? I am getting 5.8mpg w/ my COE if I stay at 62mph. We haul dry van trailers. I idle as little as possible. I'm also interested in your opinions on engine longevity... can I expect 500K or more out of this rebuild, even with performance enhancing mods? I am a little concerned about the engine being only 12L (732 cu in.) - especially in comparison to my 855cu in Cummins, or the CAT3406, and I am very interested in opinions in this realm as well. My friend who has an excavating business swears by Mack, and says this 350hp will absolutely outrun my "fueled" 855Cummins. He is also telling me that Mack rates their horsepower at the rear wheel, not the flywheel. Is this accurate as well? Any reference materials / websites / books that would be beneficial please point me in that direction. Thank you for your time. Regards, TOM