b61fred

I would change all the rubber items for sure, they only last so long. Brakes and shocks as well. Is this a SQ100? My drive line angles would work because I’m going to install it closer to the rear of the truck for more wheel base. My truck doesn’t have front brakes so I’m going to have to add those too.

Went out a got some pictures of the axle I want to use. I think it’s a sq100 axle. I think the rear unit will work well, it even has the same series driveline as the b model. I think I can use 1/4 inch fish plate on the sides of the frame to take up the difference on the frame width. The airliner suspension on the tandem is in theory two independent units working in parallel. Here are some pictures…

I agree on the gearing, don’t see much over 40,000 lb GCVW with truck, trailer and a few farm tractors so a 6 wheel truck would do the job just fine. I’m going to get a picture of the axle tonight to get a ID on the unit. I just want to use the rear axle of the tandem set.I would love to get a inter axle locker for it though.

Hi, I have been wanting to add air ride to my b61 for a number of years now. I have an Air Liner air ride with some mysterious rear axles in it. My tractor has tandem rears with Mack 5:13 gears and the mystery axle is a 3:73. The 237 would do fine ratio wise but I was wondering can you use the rear axle of the tandem and make a single drive instead of a tandem? If I was to get pictures could anyone identify it? thanks Fred

Well.... The only other injection pump I have been into was on a Caterpillar D2 that I rebuilt everything on. Sitting down and reading a repair manual helps me, I have a tendency to "reverse engineer" components to understand how things are supposed to work. When I asked the question about what is usually the issue that causes this problem the response that I keyed in on was the throttle arm break over spring. Mine was in excellent shape but I knew that something was very sloppy somewhere in the governor or the linkage. These things are pretty simple inside and I don't make my living with it. It actually had a little wear everywhere, so if I had a reputation as an injection pump rebuilder, I would have replaced all the worn parts inside. I know that would be pricey and may not be possible because parts may not be available anymore. You could not imagine how quickly a dis-satisfied customer will tell everyone at the coffee shop you screwed up, even though you might have made it very plain the risk of used/worn parts and the outcome could be much less than perfect. This goes for all facets of the service industry, restaurants, dentists to mechanics. I always thought it might be nice to be an aircraft mechanic because if something needs to be replaced there is no question about cost, but then there is the liability thing.... 🤔

Here is a video of the test drive. I think it runs much smoother than I can shift, but I heard it down the road just the same.

The droop screw is effectively changing the sensitivity of the governor. If you look at a graph of the torque curve as the engine is being loaded it will have a “droop” before the governor starts to compensate for the load, usually around 5 percent. This is very common adjustment on generator sets, they need a very short rpm droop as the load is applied due to the rpm of the engine has a lot to do with the cycles in electricity. In truck engines I think it pulls fuel if the engine is loaded momentarily so as not to burn it up.

fjh, I checked the over running/ lovejoy gear (had it called several things) and it checked ok. I figured that I had rambled on enough as it was in the video, I guess the secret is out on how to turn the pump up! haha... Those injection pumps are boxes of black magic, the guys that work on them have to sacrifice a goat or something to get them to work right! Just joking around, I know they are professionals. p.s. You did like and subscribe?

Well I removed the governor and found the culprit! The internal shaft on the throttle was worn just enough to slop around. I made a video on YouTube to describe what was wrong and what I done to fix it if you want to see. thanks for all your help.

Update.. I loaded up the family yesterday and made the trek to Delphi, IN to get a parts injection pump from Ron Bogan. I got home late and I was able to get the governor removed and disassembled. Today’s job is to see about getting the one off of the B61 and look for a smoking gun inside of there. Wish me luck!

Matt, I would say that superb organization and cleanliness of your work space has a lot to do with the efficiency of the work performed. Everything has a place and everything in its place! Add in a mentor that is highly qualified and BAM a winning combination. The old 220 will be rattling the neighbors window panes in short order. I haven't been on here for a while and just been binge reading your b73 restoration. I have to say its one of the best sagas on the net. As I was reading about putting in the rebuilt engine I was thinking to myself that as meticulous as you appear, he will have it out and go through it for some reason. I didn't think it would be as quickly and as catastrophically as reality would have it though. If anything else it makes me want to get the B733 of mine out of moth balls and start working it over. Morgan (b61 Fred) p.s. Here is a photo of my project........

Took the cover on the governor off. Started the truck and ran pretty smoothly for a bit. Then the rack started to move a bit and then it got more and more. I grabbed the rack and physically held it in one position and the truck idled better than it has ever done. No wavering in the idle at all. Put it back together and I noticed that it has a wavering at 55 mph, I never thought too much about it but I can hear it in the exhaust. The linkage seem pretty floppy in there, I think that is where the gremlin is hiding. I don’t think it’s sucking air because the idle snaps down when I shift really quickly, every one that I worked on would have a slow return to idle.

It is quite violent! it will do it at around 20mph.

Paul, base engine on this truck is in excellent shape. Got it from Rob several years ago. The story goes that it was rebuilt but the truck rusted down around it. I but it in old “aunt B” to see how well it would run. The engine would not hold valve adjustment. To find out it was eating the cam shaft. Pulled the engine and replaced the cam and lifters. Ron Bogan to the rescue there! Had the pump worked on at that point. Put it all together and it still did the jerking around thing but when I had it down and after it’s all back together I performed compression test and it was very even and don’t remember the spec now but at the time looked it up and it was in spec. It doesn’t use oil and there is no blow by so I think is good there. I could have the idle down too low and I will buy that for the idle quality issue. I need to pinpoint the jerky light throttle issue. I have the manual for the pump, could the puff limiter on the end of the rack cause an issue? I think my old engine just had a short plug in there. I’m going to take the governor cover off and look for loose stuff…

I’m going to try some more tests this afternoon. Maybe I can find a smoking gun somewhere!

The lever breaks over both ways. And no slop at all. Can I take the top cover off the governor and run the engine or will oil go absolutely everywhere? The injection part of the pump checked out to be healthy all the work was in the governor. When the engine first starts it will surge for a little bit and then level out. If you pull the throttle knob out to raise the idle it is smooth. As it warms the idle will surge less. Im starting to think there must me some slop somewhere!

Yes, all the extras have been removed

Update: I removed the throttle arm on the outside of the pump. Inspected for an overly weak spring in the break over portion of the lever. Seems to me that it is very stiff, probably not the issue on this unit. I checked the linkage for any sign of binding and I changed the return spring to a lighter one and a heavier one and it seem to do slightly better with the heavier unit. I believe this could be that when the engine starts surging, it makes the whole truck surge including my foot on the accelerator. The heavy spring dampened that. The governor has new pins and bushings so that should not be a problem. This is an APE pump, is there a damper spring for the governor adjustment or any other ideas would be welcome. If any one would have and old injection pump that they would part with I’m in the market, my pump seems good it’s the governor portion I’m looking for.

That was my next move! I will look into that. Thanks

It will do it in all gears. Light throttle what I would call “tip in” from a deceleration.

Hi, Have 237 in a B61 ever since I installed the 237 it has had a problem with the throttle bucking when you are lightly adding fuel. I removed the injection pump and had the governor repaired. It was better when I got it back but still not like it should be. The driveline has some slop but I don’t think that’s the problem, it didn’t do it with the 673 and everything is the same other than the engine. I’ve read about maybe a throttle lever issue with the spring being weak, I think that’s my next step. This makes the truck hard to drive and not much fun either. The linkage looks good and the cab is tight on the frame. If I give it full throttle it runs smooth. Any ideas? very Respectfully, Morgan

Larry, yup haven't been here in a while, Talked with Ron Bogan and said if I need a part he would fix me up. I was looking on the Bay and I seen the e6 pumps were almost identical. Just fishing for some info to see if the robert bosch pump would fit the american bosch, probaly not... haha. Got to show Aunt B some lovin' she croaked going down the highway just like it was out of fuel. I think now that the primer pump might be the culprit.

I have a Bosch APE pump on my 237 and it’s needing a fuel lift pump. Is the lift pumps for the e6 engines the same as the older engine? Looks like it would be other than the output line is coming out the top of the pump instead of the bottom. Thanks b61fred

Sorry for the late reply. The engine is about 6 inch longer than the gasser. Other than that its pretty close. I also found the 673 from a b is very close to the steering box. There would be no way to install a R model engine unless the oil filters were remove mounted. The A 50 frame is about 6 inches narrower than the B frame. Morgan

Thanks for the article. I think the 673 is pretty close to the original engine in size. I guess I will have to get the tape measure out and get started.