More Government Regs

[greg]

Here we go again! The gov. is changing the emisions allowed for diesels in 2007. They are going to make the oil companies make an ultra low sulfur fuel which they say will be an increase of about 1 dollar per gallon. If your diesel was built after 12-31-06 you have to run a special oil in your engine which will cost they say about 7 to 9 dollars a quart! The new fuel is going to reduce your fuel economy by 10 to 15 percent. Anyone with older engines will have to put fuel additives in because of the ultra low sulfur fuel. Remember what we went through the last time they switched to low sulfur fuels. They are adding some sort of after burner that automatically around every 500 hours or so injects a quart of fuel in and burns off soot or something at a temp of 1500 degrees! Sounds like a fire hazard to me.

If anyone is going to buy a new truck , heavy duty or otherwise , better do it before the 1st of the year!

Leave it to our government to make us poorer and them and the oil companies richer.

[ThaddeusW]

Here we go again! The gov. is changing the emisions allowed for diesels in 2007. They are going to make the oil companies make an ultra low sulfur fuel which they say will be an increase of about 1 dollar per gallon. If your diesel was built after 12-31-06 you have to run a special oil in your engine which will cost they say about 7 to 9 dollars a quart! The new fuel is going to reduce your fuel economy by 10 to 15 percent. Anyone with older engines will have to put fuel additives in because of the ultra low sulfur fuel. Remember what we went through the last time they switched to low sulfur fuels. They are adding some sort of after burner that automatically around every 500 hours or so injects a quart of fuel in and burns off soot or something at a temp of 1500 degrees! Sounds like a fire hazard to me.

If anyone is going to buy a new truck , heavy duty or otherwise , better do it before the 1st of the year!

Leave it to our government to make us poorer and them and the oil companies richer.

As long as we can still keep our old trucks running we are in good shape. Additives will be a pain as you have to measure in the appropriate ammount each time you fill up. Lets see what happens.

[rsmartyn]

Remember what Ronald Reagan said were some of the scariest words in the English language? "We're from the government and we're here to help you" Help us empty our wallets, that's for sure. Bob

[Freightrain]

Seen on another diesel site. That funky afterburner on a new Pete. Looked like a super sized muffler with a torpedo burner built in? Something like a $5000 muffler! OUCH.

[ThaddeusW]

Seen on another diesel site. That funky afterburner on a new Pete. Looked like a super sized muffler with a torpedo burner built in? Something like a $5000 muffler! OUCH.

Those Diesel Particulate Mufflers are going to go on more engines. I think I herd Cummins will use them as well as the new International Maxx Force. Who knows its possible the MP series might use them too but I havent herd anything yet.

[Shamrock_HeavyHaul]

For 2007 ALL engines will have a After Treatment Device or ATD. Fuel is going from 500 parts per million to 15. and Oil is going to less then 1 percent Sulfer content.

The ATD will be required to be cleaned at 100,000 to 150,000 miles (depending on the engine MFG) and can be cleaned 9/10 times before you have to purchase a new one. The filter is about $6200.00. You cannot remove the filter from the chassis, it is built in to register fault codes.

I designed the mechanical diagnostics for the 2007 Series 60 and assisted on the ATD diagnostics.

[ThaddeusW]

For 2007 ALL engines will have a After Treatment Device or ATD. Fuel is going from 500 parts per million to 15. and Oil is going to less then 1 percent Sulfer content.

The ATD will be required to be cleaned at 100,000 to 150,000 miles (depending on the engine MFG) and can be cleaned 9/10 times before you have to purchase a new one. The filter is about $6200.00. You cannot remove the filter from the chassis, it is built in to register fault codes.

I designed the mechanical diagnostics for the 2007 Series 60 and assisted on the ATD diagnostics.

Cleaned at 100-150k? How much will that cost? Nothing like another emmission regulation thingy to cost more money. 6200 dollar mufflers? Are they nuts? Now we will have to deal with people stealing them off the trucks to make a quck buck.

[fullfuel01]

heard about the heated muffler? it's like a catalyser that will burn as high as 600 to burn all the pollution. I'll really apreiciate to store that truck inside during summer. will be relly glad to go and make some road services. imagine all the steam coming out on a rainy day or during winter. just good to cook a steack

[Fishhook]

My $.02, I drive a fuel tanker , so heres what I know.

The ulsd will already have the lubricity added to it, you wont need to add it your self.

The 07 motors basically cannot run on conventional lsd, the DPF(diesel particulate filter) will clog after 1-2 tanks of regular lsd.

ULSD will start being introduced in June, to be fully fazed in by oct/nov.You will get worse mpg, but it will pollute less

Volvo has stated that the 07 motors will be a $ 7500 increase to the price of a new truck.The others are to be between $7000-$12,000!!!

The DPF 's will need to be "cleaned" , when depends on the application, but the Feds have mandated 100,000 mile minimum before its needed.Some manufactures will be essentially injecting fuel into the exhasut after the turbo , which will be burned off in the DPF, thus burning the captured particulates. The DPF will get to 1100-1800 degrees!!Exhaust temps at the stack will be hotter than that of a gas engine, possibly upwards of 1200 degrees.Which for us at loading racks ought to prove interesting

The price per gallon is rummored to be $.08-$.15 more for the ULSD.And I'm sure there will be supply issues while the refineries switch to it and the racks have to let there tanks drop to empty before they can recieve.Also you cannot blend regular lsd w/ ulsd, nor can you belen ULSD w/ regular Kerosene, it would have to be Ultra low Kero.And I dont think you'll be able to blend Bio w/ it.Not sure on that though.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something else, but thats the gist of it.fun fun fun!!

[Shamrock_HeavyHaul]

The objective for EPA 07 is to have NOX reduced to 1.0 g/bhp-hr and in 2010 it will be 0.2 g/bhp-hr. Basically the air it will put out will be cleaner then the air you breathe is the objective.

You cannot run any type of fuel, ONLY the ultra low sulfer and the oil has to be low ash, if not you will clog your DPF, which is still a mystery on how it is going to be cleaned.

The filter is cordorite material, it would surprise me to see trucks missing these filters due to the scrap market metal price. At 6K a pop you know someone will be ripping them off.

Cansaco Brothers (if i remember right) out of Texas has the pipeline of the low sulfer fuel (AKA Bush's buddies--no joke),

[kevin mccune]

The objective for EPA 07 is to have NOX reduced to 1.0 g/bhp-hr and in 2010 it will be 0.2 g/bhp-hr. Basically the air it will put out will be cleaner then the air you breathe is the objective.

You cannot run any type of fuel, ONLY the ultra low sulfer and the oil has to be low ash, if not you will clog your DPF, which is still a mystery on how it is going to be cleaned.

The filter is cordorite material, it would surprise me to see trucks missing these filters due to the scrap market metal price. At 6K a pop you know someone will be ripping them off.

Cansaco Brothers (if i remember right) out of Texas has the pipeline of the low sulfer fuel (AKA Bush's buddies--no joke),

Bravo Sierra! enough is enough-I'm not a big proponent of conspiracy theories,but have noticed the Feds have realized that Joe Average was starting to get too properous-Theres major items now cheaper then in the 70s in puny dollars-and in adjusted inflation money some have went down .Ex-Fed Alan G overheated economy BS! Well now we have to keep the poor man poor-its getting to the point you cant be independent.The Imperial Federal Govt can come cart you off-if caught misbehaving-Taxes are ethically wrong-I'm Libertarian-If you use it pay for it,dont make everyone suffer. The small gain this horrendous regulations will ensue are not worth it ,in construction I cant see any substitute for diesel power. Ol' Henry Ford was a friend of the Farmer-Joe Stalin sure wasn't . Topsoil and Freshwater will run out before Petroleum-Modern Diesels and Autos are clean enough-Diminishing Returns has caught up with the EPA-Kevin

[Mack 3P]

Gentlemen, Start You New Engines

Newport's Heavy Duty Trucking Magazine did a real good article last month with info and comparisons about the new engines.

[Barry]

Here is an email I got from Mack about the new fuel regulations starting in June, 2006...

The link below is for a web site that contains excellent information on Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel Fuel (ULSD). We believe it would be in your best interest to review the information on this site in order to familiarize yourself with the subject and to answer many of the common questions asked about ULSD.

http://www.clean-diesel.org

Take particular note of the following warning in the "Frequently Asked Questions" area of the web site. All of the important information below, including that describing the voiding of manufacturer warranties, applies to all Mack 2007 U.S.-certified engines.

Diesel-powered engines for 2007 and later model year highway vehicles are designed to operate only with ULSD fuel. Improper fuel use will reduce the efficiency and durability of engines, permanently damage advanced emissions control systems, reduce fuel economy and possibly prevent the vehicles from running at all. Manufacturer warranties are likely to be voided by improper fuel use. Additionally, burning Low Sulfur Diesel fuel (instead of ULSD fuel) in 2007 and later model year diesel powered cars, trucks and buses is illegal and punishable with civil penalties.

More detailed information can be found on the web site that also applies to Mack 2007 U.S.-certified engines.

[ThaddeusW]

Funny thing I just read today. In Europe they are using SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction) instead of EGR. Thing is you have to have a seperate tank full of this urea solution called AdBlue which is injected into the exhaut line upstream of the After treatment device. The ratio of AdBlue needed is 20:1 so for every 20 gallons of diesel you need 1 gallon of AdBlue. AdBlue is projected to sell for half the price of diesel.

I think the lawmakers behind these crazy (dare I say retarded) laws need to put the crack pipe down and come back to reality. Its easy to make stupid laws like this when its not your money and time getting thrown out the window.

Here is a link to the Euro 5 page

[Fishhook]

We hauled our first few loads of ULSD yedterday, once you all see it, you'll know its ULSD instead of LSD. Its completely clear.If you put a sample in a glass, you cant tell the difference between ULSD and water.I did that last night, showed a bunch of other fuel drivers and no one guessed that it was ULSD!!Very little odor.If anything it kinda smells a little like terpintine/mineral spirits.

[rewdoxiepup]

Hear in the Communist Republic of New York our local diesel stations already have been required to place warning decals on all there diesel pumps advising diesel purchasers that there fuel cannot be used in 2007 and up model year engines. Hear in N.Y. State we already have adopted California emission standards. You can not even buy a Jeep Liberty diesel in this state. As of the first of the year,we will be required to have large truck emission stack testing for soot and smoke. I am a State of N.Y. large truck inspector and there are alot of guys that are gonna fail if they toyed with there injector pumps or emission equipment. The attached icon is something you will never see in N.Y. in the future if the state has it's way. Good luck guys. old smokers are a thing of the past.

[Lmackattack]

just wondering about something here. Can people get around these BS regulations if they continue to buy older engines and rebuild them? What I am thinking is if I can buy a few used E6 or ENDT675 and rebuild them when they get tired. Can I avoid the laws this way if I ever jump into trucking full time?

[GearheadGrrrl]

Yes, you can rebuild the old iron forever, but then you miss out on some of the improvements in the newer models. Then again, some of the features of the newer models are dubvious "improvements".

10 years from now no one will worry anymore about particulate filters and EGR, but the next couple years are gonna be kinda rough.

[Lmackattack]

"but then you miss out on some of the improvements in the newer models."

such as ????

Besides the better machining and longer life span of new diesels I see very little that intrests me. I know computers make life a little more simple at the dealer ship. but I like to work on my own stuff. Dearerships rates come with a hefty cost and some times paying the dearship is the only way out with computer models. I m not looking to make it rich off of trucking but a few extra grand every year is very nice.

[The Fireman]

Lmackattack

The computers only help when they can be trusted. I work on heavy equipment and everytime I trust the foolish computers it comes back to bit me i the rear.

IMO the new regs are going to drive up costs of everything and do more harm than good. Everything in America moves by truck and with the price of fuel and now the added cost of meeting these regs the costs will be passed on to the consumer. Its a wonder how we ever got along with old diesel that smoked and actully made power, never bothered any one in the 50's so whats the big deal now. The trouble is in 10 years when all the tree huger fools wake up and see that their bull is a joke it will be to late, once these systems are put on engines they cant be taken off and still made to run. I have no doubt that we wont see trucks manufactured today around and still running in 50 years

[rsmartyn]

Other than our military defending our country, can anybody think of the last time the government (Fed, local or state) did anything good for a self employeed working person or at least something that didn't hurt us? Here in NJ every once in a great while the Delaware River floods and they have to shut down the capital in Trenton. It's a beautiful thing. Bob

[ThaddeusW]

Definatly a conspiricy or something. How can you lower emmissions by increasing fuel consumption? I small profit motivation and its our profit they are after lol.