Obama Care:

[Rob]

Here is your new universal health care provider:

[Speed]

I'm sensing a definite Anti-Obama atmosphere around here-I KNEW I chose the right people to hang with ....and about the only "Change" I'd like to see him involved in would be a change of his Country of Residence.

Speed

[other dog]

I'm sensing a definite Anti-Obama atmosphere around here-I KNEW I chose the right people to hang with ....and about the only "Change" I'd like to see him involved in would be a change of his Country of Residence.

Speed

Hi Speed-yep, definately a lot of folks jumping off the Obama bandwagon now.

[Barry]

Do you really want the government to decide if you need life saving surgery or not? No thanks, I'll pass on ObamaCare also!

[Gambi80]

I still think "we" elected the devil...

[Speed]

Well,SOMEBODY sure elected the Devil,but I'm not gonna own this one-I voted for an Independent,even though I knew he didn't have much chance of a win. He still surprised the heck out of the media with the amount of support he did get. I can't help thinking if the Republicans don't get their act together in a big way,the Independents could take the next election. Depending on who they back,that might be a good thing.

Speed

[GearheadGrrrl]

Rob, et al:

You wanna get this website shut down? This website is sponsored by a Mack dealer and we've been graced with several participants who are employees of Mack, dealers, and suppliers. Mack and Volvo have a lot of minority customers. Mack and Volvo will not tolerate racism- read their corporate policies if you don't believe me. Posting racist carcitures, etc. will get Mack's ire and may have negative consequences for our sponsors. So if you want Mack and their dealerships to survive, don't post offensive stuff that will drive away ANY potential Mack customer that should happen upon your post.

[other dog]

Rob, et al:

You wanna get this website shut down? This website is sponsored by a Mack dealer and we've been graced with several participants who are employees of Mack, dealers, and suppliers. Mack and Volvo have a lot of minority customers. Mack and Volvo will not tolerate racism- read their corporate policies if you don't believe me. Posting racist carcitures, etc. will get Mack's ire and may have negative consequences for our sponsors. So if you want Mack and their dealerships to survive, don't post offensive stuff that will drive away ANY potential Mack customer that should happen upon your post.

Rob is not a racist. Nor have I seen anything to indicate that anyone else here is either. It's called freedom of speech...it's mentioned in the constitution of the United States.

[Speed]

Regarding my comments,race has absolutely nothing to do with my thoughts on the "State of the Union". I'm sorry if you're reading it that way-no offense meant.

Speed

[RowdyRebel]

Rob is not a racist. Nor have I seen anything to indicate that anyone else here is either. It's called freedom of speech...it's mentioned in the constitution of the United States.

Freedom of speech works both ways.

You have the right to say whatever you wish to say, but you are NOT guaranteed a forum to say it in.

The advertisers ALSO have a right to say whatever they wish, and they use their dollars to do the talking for them.

The owners of this forum have been gracious enough to allow you to participate in it, but THEY are the ones who own it and THEY are the ones ultimately responsible for its content...sort of like a child breaking a window and the parent having to pay for the window to be replaced. They have to lookout for their own best interest, and if one of their "children" is potentially going to cost them money, they may see fit to take action and "ground" you...either by giving you a "time out" to think about what you did wrong, or by banning you for failure to abide by their rules.

If you want to have a forum where you can be free to say whatever you want with NOBODY allowed to limit the content of your posts, you are free to start your own forum and pay for it out of your own pocket....but even then, if it is hosted on another server, there will likely be rules. There are a few "anything goes" type forums out there. If that's what you want, seek them out.

[HeyCharger]

A question from the other side of the world

Hypothetically. If a drunk driver, who has no health insurance, is involved in a serious accident and is taken to the emergency section of the hospital, then what happens to this driver? Are they treated and then sent a bill later?

Thanks. Rod (from DownUnder)

[Underdog]

A question from the other side of the world

Hypothetically. If a drunk driver, who has no health insurance, is involved in a serious accident and is taken to the emergency section of the hospital, then what happens to this driver? Are they treated and then sent a bill later?

Thanks. Rod (from DownUnder)

That's exactly what would happen, Rod. That is the myth that is perpetuated by the liberal supporters of health care reform, that someone would be denied critical care. It simply does not happen in the U.S.A. Services are provided to those who need it. If the recipient is unable to pay, that becomes a matter for the lawyers.

[Underdog]

Rob, et al:

You wanna get this website shut down? This website is sponsored by a Mack dealer and we've been graced with several participants who are employees of Mack, dealers, and suppliers. Mack and Volvo have a lot of minority customers. Mack and Volvo will not tolerate racism- read their corporate policies if you don't believe me. Posting racist carcitures, etc. will get Mack's ire and may have negative consequences for our sponsors. So if you want Mack and their dealerships to survive, don't post offensive stuff that will drive away ANY potential Mack customer that should happen upon your post.

Prior to your accusation, I read no reference to race in this thread- only a political point of view.

[GearheadGrrrl]

Freedom of speech works both ways.

You have the right to say whatever you wish to say, but you are NOT guaranteed a forum to say it in.

The advertisers ALSO have a right to say whatever they wish, and they use their dollars to do the talking for them.

The owners of this forum have been gracious enough to allow you to participate in it, but THEY are the ones who own it and THEY are the ones ultimately responsible for its content...sort of like a child breaking a window and the parent having to pay for the window to be replaced. They have to lookout for their own best interest, and if one of their "children" is potentially going to cost them money, they may see fit to take action and "ground" you...either by giving you a "time out" to think about what you did wrong, or by banning you for failure to abide by their rules.

If you want to have a forum where you can be free to say whatever you want with NOBODY allowed to limit the content of your posts, you are free to start your own forum and pay for it out of your own pocket....but even then, if it is hosted on another server, there will likely be rules. There are a few "anything goes" type forums out there. If that's what you want, seek them out.

The constitution does not absolutely guarentee you freedom of speech- it only guarentees that the government can not censor your speech. But the company providing web hosting to this forum and the sponsoring Mack dealer can censor it to their hearts content. And big companies get very concerned when customers feel that the company is denegrating groups of people- remember what happened to the NAPA "Parts Pups"? NAPA got a lot of customer complaints about the "parts pups", then customers started pulling their business from NAPA. NAPA then wisely retired the "Parts Pups".

If you've looked at the recently posted sales stats, it's clear that Mack needs every customer they can get to survive this recession. As friends and supporters of Mack we need to avoid offending and welcome every potential Mack customer. If I were to send the carciture Rob posted to our city council I can guarantee you that our city would never buy another Mack again. So Rob, I'd suggest you pull that offensive carciture and apologize if you really love Mack trucks.

[GearheadGrrrl]

That's exactly what would happen, Rod. That is the myth that is perpetuated by the liberal supporters of health care reform, that someone would be denied critical care. It simply does not happen in the U.S.A. Services are provided to those who need it. If the recipient is unable to pay, that becomes a matter for the lawyers.

Not quite true. Federal law requires that the hospital treat a patient until they are not in immediate risk of dying. Hospitals can and do discharge uninsured patients with broken and untreated limbs, etc.. I know a gentleman who was hit, no fault of his own, while riding his bicycle. The hospital checked him out and discharged him because he was uninsured. If he'd been insured they would have fully treated him and he'd be able to walk normally today.

[Speed]

Not quite true. Federal law requires that the hospital treat a patient until they are not in immediate risk of dying. Hospitals can and do discharge uninsured patients with broken and untreated limbs, etc.. I know a gentleman who was hit, no fault of his own, while riding his bicycle. The hospital checked him out and discharged him because he was uninsured. If he'd been insured they would have fully treated him and he'd be able to walk normally today.

As I understand it,this is related to the type of care available;if there's more than one Hospital available to potentially provide care for a person,the hospital can legally refuse treatment,but if that's the only Hospital in the area,they'd be required to provide at least basic treatment regardless of the patient's financial status. At least that's how it plays out here.

Speed

[hatcity]

Back to the original topic. Whats the difference, we now have soft, white handed bean counters making the decisions.

Private hospitals can give basic service. Community hospitals recieve funds from the public to help defray cost incurred by the indigent or uninsured. The ILLEGALS take advantage of this, and I get stuck with higher costs.

Local hospital spent 2 years and $2 million, yes million dollars on an illegal. Made arrangements for him to be sent back to his home country, with assurances that they could provide for him. Goody lawyer tried to stop it. After an emergency hearing, the plane was in the air before the ink dried. Now another scumbag, goody lawyer tried to file suit against hospital. He lost.

[Barry]

Just to be clear, BMT will not tolerate racism or harassment against anyone because of color, religion or even poor grammar. That's just stuff that doesn't need to be on a forum anywhere. People come from all walks of life and all are welcome at BMT. However, I have yet to see anything like that crop up in these forums, we have a great group of people here and I am proud of that!

This thread is merely comparing ObamaCare to the questionable care that you might receive from a witch doctor. Political discussions like this are allowed as they affect us all in one way or another. The Odd's & Ends forum was created for just such topics, as well as humor, personal topics and any other off topic content. We don't want BMT to be stuffy and only focused on the main topic. You're all invited to use the forums for Mack topics as well as general entertainment...

I don't care what color the president is, but he is required to do a good job for us! The latter part is what is in question here!

That is all, feel free to continue the discussion!

[other dog]

Freedom of speech works both ways.

You have the right to say whatever you wish to say, but you are NOT guaranteed a forum to say it in.

If you want to have a forum where you can be free to say whatever you want with NOBODY allowed to limit the content of your posts, you are free to start your own forum and pay for it out of your own pocket....but even then, if it is hosted on another server, there will likely be rules. There are a few "anything goes" type forums out there. If that's what you want, seek them out.

Well then, sounds like i've been invited to leave...I know when i'm not wanted. This is the last you'll hear of 'ol other dog.

I've found a new site to join- it's been fun...so long everybody.

[other dog]

Hi everybody, i'm back! ...I didn't really fit in too good over at the Mensa site

[hatcity]

Didnt speak the same language, huh?

[other dog]

Didnt speak the same language, huh?

no. besides, they all act like they're smarter than everybody else for some reason.

[Double L]

I hope it doesn't pass the Senate! I sure hope they have enough sense to get rid of the damn thing. If you want to know if socialized medicine works look at Canada and most of Europe........Nope it doesn't work at all!

[ThaddeusW]

I hope it doesn't pass the Senate! I sure hope they have enough sense to get rid of the damn thing. If you want to know if socialized medicine works look at Canada and most of Europe........Nope it doesn't work at all!

This is an interesting topic. You have to look at it like this:

You let the government run the system. Sure it sounds good, the government is here to help us after all. They provide basic level civil and municipal services paid through tax money. Road building & maintenance, police, fire/rescue, sanitation (limited) water and sewer. Those are basic yet vital to keeping a safe, clean, civil population happy. So why not health care? Isn't that just as important as clean running water to keep the public healthy? Should health care be considered as a basic yet vital public need? Well it does sound good and has been implemented in other parts of the world and shown to work to a degree. Funny thing is we already have social medicine but in a limited form. Medicare is available to people 65 and over or those who meet special criteria. And we also have Medicaid for low income individuals and families. Problem is they left out the so-called middle class (which is a BS term) who could afford health care but in MANY cases would have to sacrifice allot of their income to pay for it leaving little left. But those systems are very broken asnd that is why we dont trust our government to provide universal heath care. I just read an article the other day that pretty much said the medicare system is robbed of BILLIONS of dollars a year. And the scary part? Its so damn easy it has been reported that some big time drug dealers have switched to medicare fraud! In that article it told of two guys who had over 40 phony health care clinics that bilked the system for over 80 MILLION! They drive around in Lamborghini's and lived in sprawling mansions. Why do we want our government to run this again?

Or we keep the current private system and sit by as they continue to abuse the paying public. Suddenly diagnosed with a rare or life threatening disease? You could find that you policy was cancelled because you no longer meet the policies criteria. Have a nice life! Yea there are plenty of private health care disaster stories. But one thing is certain, the greedy bastards who run the show run a tight ship. They will unleash the hounds of hell on anyone who has tried to rob them of money (they don't like competition). So you have a very well organized system that does work very well when they feel you are not going to cost them too much money. Sometimes the system does work and you have no problems.

So to sum it up:

Government: Everyone gets equal treatment BUT there is no guarantee they will be able to curb the rampant fraud.

Private: Not every can afford it or can be tossed out into the cold on a whim. But it works.

So what do we want? I personally think it would be great if everyone was able to go to the doctor at any time. But I don't want a system so broken that criminals can literally setup an empty store front and bill the system for millions in phony claims that we all paid for. If they could prove they have a system as tight as private health care and impose severe penalties on fraudsters (jail time with a minimum of 2 to 3 years) then it might be worth it.

[Double L]

My main concern is people milking the system which will cost us taxpayers.