Jack Of All Trades....

[other dog]

Don't believe anything that you hear & only half what you see. I am sure that there are no trailers under the runways at Logan. No longer then it would take to recover a trailer there is no reason to leave it behind to deteriorate & create a void in/under the concrete to create a hazard for aircraft. There is no way a trailer would be allowed to be left in the fill. In Ft Wayne a new 7 story hotel was demolished before it was finished because of unsafe soil. http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/news/local/39749242.html

Just my observation...

T.

didn't really sound logical to me either, but that's what he said. you know how truck driver stories are-except mine,they're all true.

[Double L]

Most of them truck driver stories are either they were with the CIA or a Navy Seal.

[convoyduel]

Backing up a bit to end dump specs, the type of trailer you want is very specific to what you're hauling and where. The 39's, frameless and 1/4 frames are designed to scale out exactly 80K for long-haul interstate work. You can't use them much above 80K for long and their very unforgiving in use on uneven ground. They mostly are for use on dumping in bins, chutes, and established offloading sites or well maintained stockpiling.

Frameless (and 1/4 frame) are great when you don't care about the trailer laying over. If you want to keep it stable, use a frame type, but if it goes, it takes the tractor with it. In my experience, I'd rather have a more stable combo and take an extra few minutes to let the load slide out easy rather than hot dog it and try moving with a raised trailer. Even with wet lead in the winter, patience and a liner will keep you on all tires. I can't count the number of times I'd see a tub jockey tearing forward with end dump in the air like they were driving an old Louisville with a 10 foot scissor lift Galion in the air.

The frame-type trailers are the brutes that really can haul the tonnage, take the rough terrain and stay stable in the air. I ran 28 to 35 foot frame type trailers, all alum body with steel frames, except one alum/alum. The tare was a bit higher, but we hauled primarily in the commercial zones in St. Louis, typically moving 35 to 40 tons of material or more in single turn. When we had to run long, we were down to 24.5 tons avg. payload, but even the super lights running 39' frameless were only getting a few tons more (usually b/c the frameless were pulled by sleeper tractors). Never had a single problem, none of my all-starts turned any over, but we sure ran around a lot of toppled Beelman and Grantham trailers laying on their sides.

The biggest competition for us was the truck-and-pup combos, with big heavy tri-axle dump trucks pulling tandem or tri-axle pups. Those tri-axle dumps weigh 28K to 30K empty and the rock tub they're pulling is another 12 to 15K. I never understood how they made any money. In the offseason, we could drop our end dumps and pull other trailers, they couldn't shed their beds too well. After I started running 35's and tractors, Lloyd Lynn, Pazdera and others started switching over. Can't say I was the reason, but I was certainly well ahead of the curve.

As for Midwest bigen, a couple of my first hauling jobs were for Midwest at Antonia working on-call with Randy with my first truck in '01 when he was still there. I moved on and up right away and never had any real problems there, the problems came later on with some of the local snakes in the grass that bit me, but in the end, it all evened out. I'm sure you and I've crossed paths more than once as the St. Louis market is pretty small in the end. God knows I've got quite a few stories from my 6 years spent in the industry before I sold everything off.

[Underdog]

I don't want to start an argument about physics and geometry, but IMHO a frameless is inherently more stable than a full frame of the same length. Conditions that cause rollovers are the same for both(unlevel/unstable ground, stuck/uneven load, operator error, etc.). Any of these will cause any trailer to fall.

I have dumped in many different locations over the years and will NEVER give up my frameless to go back to a frame trailer. The frame does have the advantage of being able to be spec'ed to carry more weight, but for my operation grossing 80,000lb.(more when I can get away with it), I will dump my frameless anywhere they pay me to.

[bts-4120]

I don't want to start an argument about physics and geometry, but IMHO a frameless is inherently more stable than a full frame of the same length. Conditions that cause rollovers are the same for both(unlevel/unstable ground, stuck/uneven load, operator error, etc.). Any of these will cause any trailer to fall.

I have dumped in many different locations over the years and will NEVER give up my frameless to go back to a frame trailer. The frame does have the advantage of being able to be spec'ed to carry more weight, but for my operation grossing 80,000lb.(more when I can get away with it), I will dump my frameless anywhere they pay me to.

1/4 frame is the most stable the most stable trailer in my opinion is a 34 tri axle 1/4 that will give you 8 tires on the ground compared to your 4 but they all will lay over even 28' full frame quads and a 1/4 frame will take the tractor with it just like a full frame, trust me its alot cheaper to fix a laid over frameless than a wrecked truck

[Gambi80]

1/4 frame is the most stable the most stable trailer in my opinion is a 34 tri axle 1/4 that will give you 8 tires on the ground compared to your 4 but they all will lay over even 28' full frame quads and a 1/4 frame will take the tractor with it just like a full frame, trust me its alot cheaper to fix a laid over frameless than a wrecked truck

I'll have to agree with the frameless 39' and the 1/4 frame. I pull around a 23' 1/4 frame and wouldn't trade it for any other type of short trailer. When I'm paving (mainly) and other types of work, they'll call for the 1/4 frames on the super elevated curves and any other off camber work and make the guys with frame trailers sit. I don't think I'd ever touch a looong frame trailer. When it goes over it'll take the truck. Frameless goes, just the trailer goes.

[Underdog]

A frameless trailer puts your pivot point across the rear axle, much lower to the ground than on top of the framerails of a frame type trailer. There are no pins & bushings to wear out or service at the rear of a frameless. Also you have a tripod stabilizing the front half of the trailer, rather than relying solely on the hoist and two pins. Side loading the hoist increases the chance for piston failure. At the very least the pins & bushings wear faster, and loose pins at the hoist or at the rear inceases your chance of an unintended side discharge.

[convoyduel]

Some good points, but you're not factoring in loading 40K to 50K onto a single axle when dumping. Also, with a frameless, either the tractor is moving rearward as the trailer raises, or the trailer is moving forward. Either situation puts the "base" in motion and that's where stability gets compromised. With a frameless, your brakes are set, bags are dumped. When the load's at the bottom, maybe pull forward a few feet to clear the gate. As I said, though, it depends on what you're shooting for. If I had nothing but freeway/longhaul work, I wouldn't do anything but frameless either to maximize the payload.