RowdyRebel Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I pull just about any trailer they need me to pull. I'm the only truck they've got that can drop & hook and run any of their trailers, and lately they seem to be taking advantage of that fact to "fill in" where they are short on trucks. Ordinarily, I pull a frameless end dump, so my 5th wheel has a pin blocking it...but when I hook to a framed trailer, the pin ends up on the floor of the cab between the jump seat and the passenger side door...something I've never really been too fond of doing.I needed to figure out how to stow it securely OUTSIDE the truck.Finally got around to it this weekend.* Two 1-1/2" close nipples* One 4' long 1/8" x 2" angle iron, trimmed down to 38-7/8" * Two short (maybe 4") pieces of 3/8" x 2" angle iron out of the scrap barrel* Two 5/8" grade 8 bolts, 2" long, with washers, lock washers, & nutsPlayed with the welder a bit...a couple coats of paint...and this is what I ended up with Works great, too Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcticmack Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 brilliant I like that setup very clean looking as well.also looks very funtional, and easy to change out. things I like to do with my Equipment. I hate having things in my cab, things that will become deadly when in a crash or worse Rollover.. its amazing at what kinda damage things can do even small things inside your cab... I try to keep what Im driving as clan and clutter free as possible inside, even a thermos bottle can do serious damage inside a cab. things ya never really think about till it happens. Or you see what they have done.Arctic Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-43776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyRebel Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 brilliant I like that setup very clean looking as well.also looks very funtional, and easy to change out. things I like to do with my Equipment. I hate having things in my cab, things that will become deadly when in a crash or worse Rollover.. its amazing at what kinda damage things can do even small things inside your cab... I try to keep what Im driving as clan and clutter free as possible inside, even a thermos bottle can do serious damage inside a cab. things ya never really think about till it happens. Or you see what they have done.ArcticBest part was, no new holes in the truck! The 5th wheel is mounted far enough back that there was 1 set of holes remaining on the frame bracket the 5th wheel is bolted down to that I was able to use. If I had to drill the frame, it probably wouldn't have been put on there.Trust me, there's STILL more than enough potential projectiles in the truck...but nothing near as bad as the pin. Most of the time, I'd have a duffle bag on top of the pin with my clothes in it if I was going on an overnight trip...the duffle bag wedged between the jump seat and the door. The dog's food & water bowls are on the floor in front of the jump seat along with a 1 gallon insulated jug with ice water. Then there's the dog...not to mention the hardhat and other stuff hanging on the gunrack in the back window......got a lot of stuff in this here daycab I TRY to keep most of it stowed where it ain't in my way...but there's only so much a person can do Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-43777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I don't want to do what comes naturally, (sounding like an idiot) but I've never seen anyone use a pin when pulling a frameless trailer. This is news to me. What is the purpose, keeping the 5th wheel from tilting during dumping? Do you leave this pin in during road travel?Thanks,Rob Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-43794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambi80 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I don't want to do what comes naturally, (sounding like an idiot) but I've never seen anyone use a pin when pulling a frameless trailer. This is news to me. What is the purpose, keeping the 5th wheel from tilting during dumping? Do you leave this pin in during road travel?Thanks,RobIt keeps the 5th wheel level or stationary while pulling a frameless or 1/4 frame trailer. There are several variations of pins, most common and easiest is how Rowdy's and mine are set up. It stays in until you swap out for a frame trailer...you'd have a hell of a time even trying to hook up to a frameless w/o the pin in . Quote Ever wonder how a blind person knows when to stop wiping? Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-43801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lmackattack Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 It keeps the 5th wheel level or stationary while pulling a frameless or 1/4 frame trailer. There are several variations of pins, most common and easiest is how Rowdy's and mine are set up. It stays in until you swap out for a frame trailer...you'd have a hell of a time even trying to hook up to a frameless w/o the pin in .Rob next time you see a frameless end dump look at the trailers 5th wheel plate. it will have a pivot mount for the hyd hoist and a pivot for the uder carrage beams. becasue of the 2 pivot joints on the plate and the 5th wheel pivot it would be a scary mess to raise or lower the trailer. So what you do is Block the 5th wheel to prohibit its movment. With it blocked now the trailer plate has a solid surface to let the hoist and beams safely work to "inchworm" the trailer when dumping.. most if not all Frameless and 1/4 frames need to be used with a blocked 5th wheel. I have blocked mine as well and did the fab work myself. I have a place on the side of my frame rails under the fuel tank straps that I put mine when not in use.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-43803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I can't believe that off all the tons, and tons of rock I've had hauled to my shop that has come in a frameless trailer that I've never looked. Always been standing at the rear of the trailer, (off to the side) when they were dumping. This trailer belongs to a customer of mine so I'll have a close look at his setup. One of my trucks, (can't remember which) has a couple of standoffs welded to the 5th wheel plate mounting with about an 1.5" hole in them. Now that I think of it, if a shaft were run through the holes the 5th wheel plate would be level. I've never known what they were for and this sounds like it.Thanks,Rob Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-43805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
other dog Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 brilliant I like that setup very clean looking as well.also looks very funtional, and easy to change out. things I like to do with my Equipment. I hate having things in my cab, things that will become deadly when in a crash or worse Rollover.. its amazing at what kinda damage things can do even small things inside your cab... I try to keep what Im driving as clan and clutter free as possible inside, even a thermos bottle can do serious damage inside a cab. things ya never really think about till it happens. Or you see what they have done.ArcticThis is true-Lonely Wolf used to keep a tool box in the passenger side floor in his cabover Kenworth. When he tipped over on rt. 26 he said he wasn't hurt but that tool box "'bout beat me to death". Quote Producer of poorly photo-chopped pictures since 1999. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-43830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
other dog Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Rob next time you see a frameless end dump look at the trailers 5th wheel plate. it will have a pivot mount for the hyd hoist and a pivot for the uder carrage beams. becasue of the 2 pivot joints on the plate and the 5th wheel pivot it would be a scary mess to raise or lower the trailer. So what you do is Block the 5th wheel to prohibit its movment. With it blocked now the trailer plate has a solid surface to let the hoist and beams safely work to "inchworm" the trailer when dumping.. most if not all Frameless and 1/4 frames need to be used with a blocked 5th wheel. I have blocked mine as well and did the fab work myself. I have a place on the side of my frame rails under the fuel tank straps that I put mine when not in use..We used to block the 5th. wheel when we pulled long steel on steerable dollies. The front of the beam just sat on a bolster on the fifth wheel. We had the hi-tech equipment-a piece of wood across the frame under the back of the 5th. wheel, held in place by a rubber strap on each end. Quote Producer of poorly photo-chopped pictures since 1999. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-43831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 We used to block the 5th. wheel when we pulled long steel on steerable dollies. The front of the beam just sat on a bolster on the fifth wheel. We had the hi-tech equipment-a piece of wood across the frame under the back of the 5th. wheel, held in place by a rubber strap on each end.And they refer to a steel rod as am improvement? What nonsense!Rob Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-43836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Ironic that a certified Know-It-All had this oversight of information. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-44077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Ironic that a certified Know-It-All had this oversight of information.Tis!! I have an open mind and am always willing to learn of those things which are unfamiliar.Always been at the receiving end of a dump trailers cargo, so no experience at all with them.Staying busy I hope?Rob Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-44078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyRebel Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 I guess you can see it in this picture:Notice the pin at the front of the draft arm and bottom of the hydraulic cylinder? That is where the trailer articulates at the 5th wheel...NOT on the truck's part. This has it's benefits, as the articulation is in line with the trailer, not the truck. Ever see a truck pulling a van trailer hung up in the ditch as it was making a corner with two drive tires completely off the ground? It'll usually have "Swift" on the side...but I digress. This happens because the articulation only allows the 5th wheel only allows the trailer to follow the truck over humps in the road IF the trailer is directly behind the truck, not off to the side. When going around a corner and the trailer is off to the side (perpendicular to the truck instead of following behind it), the truck's 5th wheel will allow the trailer a certain mount of "tip", but will NOT allow for the trailer wheels to off-plane with the tractor's wheels. When the trailer drops down into a ditch, this presents a problem because the leverage of the trailer lifts the opposite side of the tractor off the ground. Unless the truck has full lockers (which FEW OTR trucks do), the power divider does no good because both drive axles are off the ground.By placing the articulation on the TRAILER instead of on the TRUCK, the trailer is free to follow up and down across various terrain without affecting the truck's ability to keep traction, so even if you drag the trailer through a ditch, all of the truck's drive tires remain on the ground. Having the articulation happen on the trailer has another benefit, as "tip" is limited, since there is no possible side-to-side articulation (as there would be if the trailer were perpendicular to the truck with the articulation occurring on the truck's 5th wheel plate). Side to side tip would be a VERY bad thing when you start raising the bed... Hope that helps clear things up... Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-44080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 I now see the point and how it works. I'll still get a good look and this looks like it could be a high wear point unless greased a lot.Thanks,Rob Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-44083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyRebel Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 I now see the point and how it works. I'll still get a good look and this looks like it could be a high wear point unless greased a lot.Thanks,RobYup...got 3 grease fittings on that pin...one at the front of each draft arm, the other on the bottom of the hydraulic cylinder. Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-44085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
other dog Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 ... Ever see a truck pulling a van trailer hung up in the ditch as it was making a corner with two drive tires completely off the ground? It'll usually have "Swift" on the side...Hope that helps clear things up... I...uh...I...OK, I picked up a load of skidded coils in a van at the dreaded AK Steel in Butler, Pa. last summer. It was about 120 in the shade and of course the a-holes at AK Steel require long sleeves. After I got loaded I headed south on rt. 8 and there's a store on the right with a little dirt parking lot next door- it's just past the famous "Rob's Truck Sales/Peterbilt and Smart Car" plant. I pulled in to get a cold drink and there was a mud puddle in the parking lot, full of water. I'm assuming it's a small puddle but when the trailer tires go in I said "0h $#*! this @$%*"s deep!!". The front corner of the van went down on my drive tires and I couldn't move at all. The back of the trailer was barely off the road. I walked across the road where some guys were doing something with a forklift and asked if they would pull me out but they wouldn't drive the lift across the road. I was just about to call the Peterbilt place to get a wrecker when a truck pulled in the store lot and circled around and pulled up in front of me. He said this situation had happened before, and he didn't know why they didn't fix that hole. I got a chain and hooked it to our front tow hooks and he backed up and pulled me right out. I thanked him and offered to pay him too, but of course he wouldn't take any money.It doesn't take a lot to get hung up sometimes. I was so pissed I didn't even get a cold drink, and have never stopped there again. Quote Producer of poorly photo-chopped pictures since 1999. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-44095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double L Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Hell Rowdy very few otr trucks have much of anything. There are some that don't even have air suspension dumps and some only have 3-4 gauges it's sickening. Then again most of them companies are "cheap" but yet they won't buy apu's for their driver's and then bitch when their driver's idle 50% of the time and them threatens to terminate them if they don't get their idling time down. That is another topic for discussion in it's own. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-44100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Tis!! I have an open mind and am always willing to learn of those things which are unfamiliar.Always been at the receiving end of a dump trailers cargo, so no experience at all with them.Staying busy I hope?RobBeen steady working, Rob, thanks for asking. Too busy to post on a regular basis, I apologize for that. It takes me extra time to grease my frameless due to all the grease fittings! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-44159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambi80 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Been steady working, Rob, thanks for asking. Too busy to post on a regular basis, I apologize for that. It takes me extra time to grease my frameless due to all the grease fittings!I'll trade you my 1/4 frame with it's zillion greasers for your frameless with far less. Depending on how generous I am, it'll take over a tube just for the trailer. Maybe if I kicked it old school with the hand pump gun instead of the battery powered one I'd use less. If I remembered and counted right, there's 53...sounds a bit high, although many are redundant. Quote Ever wonder how a blind person knows when to stop wiping? Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-44205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyRebel Posted December 2, 2009 Author Share Posted December 2, 2009 I'll trade you my 1/4 frame with it's zillion greasers for your frameless with far less. Depending on how generous I am, it'll take over a tube just for the trailer. Maybe if I kicked it old school with the hand pump gun instead of the battery powered one I'd use less. If I remembered and counted right, there's 53...sounds a bit high, although many are redundant.I used to HATE greasing the truck...now I got a Lincoln air-powered gun and I don't mind so much. Changing cartridges is a HECK of a lot easier than squeezing that dadgum trigger to manually pump the grease all friggin' day. Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-44392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lmackattack Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I like how steep of an angle I can get my frameless and never have to shovel stuff out but then again always liked the safty factor of the 1/4 frame. as long as I dont have a frame trailer ,,Im all good. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-44395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambi80 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I like how steep of an angle I can get my frameless and never have to shovel stuff out but then again always liked the safty factor of the 1/4 frame. as long as I dont have a frame trailer ,,Im all good.I'll drink to that. Quote Ever wonder how a blind person knows when to stop wiping? Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-44426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 I like how steep of an angle I can get my frameless and never have to shovel stuff out but then again always liked the safty factor of the 1/4 frame. as long as I dont have a frame trailer ,,Im all good.I'll join you for a beer on that. I saw my first frameless 18 years ago when my boss at the time got a REPO'ed Cobra from a bank auction. We all thought "this will NEVER fly!!!"Now I would NEVER go back to a frame trailer. I will dump my frameless anywhere (and I have).BTW, that first frameless 18 years ago had something else I had never seen before- Hub piloted wheels! As a mechanic, I thought "NO WAY can 8 nuts hold 2 wheels on!!!" My, my how times and opinions change. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-44617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 I'll trade you my 1/4 frame with it's zillion greasers for your frameless with far less. Depending on how generous I am, it'll take over a tube just for the trailer. Maybe if I kicked it old school with the hand pump gun instead of the battery powered one I'd use less. If I remembered and counted right, there's 53...sounds a bit high, although many are redundant.I am trying to train little Maggie to take over my lubrication chores. So far no luck with that. Being only 8 years old, she suffers short attention span. Many things more interesting than greasing Daddy's truck... Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/11543-what-to-do-with-the-pin/#findComment-44618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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