Pelletier Titan

[fullfuel01]

My mack dealer salesman Claude Thiboutot sent me pics of the Titan.. he was with the driver for this load, suppose to be a workhorse and Cat nightmare enjoy before the tv show!

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[daveigou]

Not sure about what you mean about a "Cat nightmare", I think that was a compliment.

It's still too soon to tell, but it seems like Mack is in a good position with EPA 2010 technology, they have had a little time to "de-bug" the basic MP engine platform, and everybody else will hit the street with brand new product.

I heard Cummins is struggling to get certified for 2010. I think 2010 technology sucks for sure, but it's here anyway.

The Titan looks good in that extreme logging application, but I still think it missed the "mark" for most of the rest of the North American market.

[fullfuel01]

that means that the big Dog will bite any Cat in sight

[Double L]

Problem is there won't be anymore Cats to bite.

[ThaddeusW]

Problem is there won't be anymore Cats to bite.

For the most part that is true. But International needed their own big bore engine and worked out a deal with CAT. They will create a MAXXForce 15 from a bare C15 block and fit it with their own fuel and emissions systems. Probably high pressure common rail with either some crazy EGR system or maybe even SCR. Either way the core of their engine is a CAT C15 so the big bore CAT fans still have an outlet to get their fix.

The other day there was a news post that reported International is still making money because their advanced EGR will meet 2010 without SCR. Owners like the idea of having less junk hanging off the truck. IH is attracting lots of buyers with that tech and its back by German truck Maker MAN who Rudolph Diesel worked for when he invented his engine.

[Double L]

Yeah that is true Thad. I hope the advance EGR will work better than just plain ole EGR. International announced from the get go they were not going to SCR and were sticking with advanced EGR.

[daveigou]

Take a look at the Maxxfoce video on youtube. If you think SCR is a nightmare, look at this. Yikes!!!

Try the link below, if that doesn't work search youtube for "maxxforce"

Thanks, but no thanks.

Three inter-coolers, two turbos?

[Double L]

You think the advance EGR is gonna be a nightmare Dave?

[daveigou]

You think the advance EGR is gonna be a nightmare Dave?

I know Dave McKenna, manager of Mack powertrain very well he's been out here several times to see us. If you haven't seen his section on macktrucks.com, take a few minutes to do so.

International's mass EGR is going to pay a penalty in heat rejection & fuel mileage, let alone serviceability.

I really think Mack & Volvo have the inside track on SCR.

[Double L]

Actually everyone is going to SCR, I know Freightliner is using some kind of Bluetec technology deal. International is the only idiots who are using advance EGR. They say the Prostar was a make or break deal for International well going with advance EGR is really gonna hurt them.

[ThaddeusW]

Actually everyone is going to SCR, I know Freightliner is using some kind of Bluetec technology deal. International is the only idiots who are using advance EGR. They say the Prostar was a make or break deal for International well going with advance EGR is really gonna hurt them.

Bluetec is Mercedes SCR technology. In Europe DEF is called AdBlue. The international approach does indeed look very complex but MAN is also using the same technology. International is not in this alone. As for heat rejection, their new system is designed to handle the heat load through the crazy radiator system.

Lets not jump to conclusions and bash them yet. Wait and see what happens in the long run first. They might have a winner on their hands.

[RowdyRebel]

Bluetec is Mercedes SCR technology. In Europe DEF is called AdBlue. The international approach does indeed look very complex but MAN is also using the same technology. International is not in this alone. As for heat rejection, their new system is designed to handle the heat load through the crazy radiator system.

Lets not jump to conclusions and bash them yet. Wait and see what happens in the long run first. They might have a winner on their hands.

Initially, I can see International's non-SCR route beneficial to them. DEF is not yet widely available, and without it an SCR truck won't run.

Much like the ULSD conversion when DPF's were put on trucks, fleets aren't going to buy hundreds of trucks they can't fuel. O/O's aren't going to buy trucks they can't fuel, either. Until the ULSD was widely available, EPA2007 compliant engines were scarce on the roads. Until DEF becomes widely available, I don't expect to see many SCR-equipped trucks on the road either. Hell, here it is 2010 and there are still fuel pumps in the area marked "LSD...not for use in 2007 or newer engines"

The one benefit SCR technology has over ULSD, is that fuel stops can provide DEF in gallon jugs or 5 gallon buckets for purchase inside until they have enough SCR-equipped trucks to make it beneficial to them to add DEF pumps.

Personally, if I ever need to replace the truck I've got and can't find a decent used pre-emission truck...or if the company I'm at whenever that happens won't let me lease on a truck that old, then I'd rather buy a glider kit...rolling truck minus the engine...and pull a good pre-2002 block from a bone yard to have stripped to bare block and rebuilt. I don't care for any of the EPA BS, and would rather not have it on my truck.

[Double L]

Good point Thad. Actually I see a lot of 08-09 trucks on the road.

[cxn613]

Initially, I can see International's non-SCR route beneficial to them. DEF is not yet widely available, and without it an SCR truck won't run.

Much like the ULSD conversion when DPF's were put on trucks, fleets aren't going to buy hundreds of trucks they can't fuel. O/O's aren't going to buy trucks they can't fuel, either. Until the ULSD was widely available, EPA2007 compliant engines were scarce on the roads. Until DEF becomes widely available, I don't expect to see many SCR-equipped trucks on the road either. Hell, here it is 2010 and there are still fuel pumps in the area marked "LSD...not for use in 2007 or newer engines"

The one benefit SCR technology has over ULSD, is that fuel stops can provide DEF in gallon jugs or 5 gallon buckets for purchase inside until they have enough SCR-equipped trucks to make it beneficial to them to add DEF pumps.

Personally, if I ever need to replace the truck I've got and can't find a decent used pre-emission truck...or if the company I'm at whenever that happens won't let me lease on a truck that old, then I'd rather buy a glider kit...rolling truck minus the engine...and pull a good pre-2002 block from a bone yard to have stripped to bare block and rebuilt. I don't care for any of the EPA BS, and would rather not have it on my truck.

I totally understand were everybody is coming from and not wanting to have anything to do with the new emissions. The way I look at it is this is how its gonna be, I don't think we'll see the day were they take all the crap off of the trucks and go back to the way they used to be. So with that being said I just hope for the best and most likely in 2 years we hopefully look back and be like "I guess the '10 emissions weren't that bad after all". As a matter of fact everyday i say that about the '07 '08 emissions with the induction of the DPF. When I first heard of the DPF I thought "thats all we need", but as i said before, we currently run a 2008 cxu 613 with mp-8 485 and love it. The DPF and regen process has never ever been an issue for us. The 2008 cxu we have is ALOT more dependable than our 2004 cxn w/427. I guess my point is weather we like it or not, everything will work out in the end. Btw this is a great site to visit. lots of great info!

[bts-4120]

DEF is more abundant than you think, all the Farm Equipment Dealerships have it in stock right now , I would not look for truck stops to put in a pump for DEF the trucks are just not going to need that much, the Tractors are burning around 1-1.5 gal to 100gal of fuel, its going to take a while to burn through the 30gal tank on the truck

I keep hearing IH push back the release date on there big block due to not being able to pass emmisions

[daveigou]

Don't forget, I don't think their engines are actually EPA '10 compliant, I believe they are only able to do this with banked credits, sooner or later they're going to have to comlpy.

[ThaddeusW]

Don't forget, I don't think their engines are actually EPA '10 compliant, I believe they are only able to do this with banked credits, sooner or later they're going to have to comlpy.

Dont know the details but I have head this mentioned. I wonder what the real story is. I doubt MAN would throw money away and risk their own products because of IH. SCR is the easiest method for controlling NOx. And if this super EGR system fails I bet MAN has an SCR backup or at least I hope they do. They should have learned from CAT's ACERT mistake. Don't put all of your eggs in one basket. In this day and age you either have a working system or you dont. That being said, I don't think International or MAN would be foolish enough to invest in a system that will not work.

[granitefan713]

My mack dealer salesman Claude Thiboutot sent me pics of the Titan.. he was with the driver for this load, suppose to be a workhorse and Cat nightmare enjoy before the tv show!

Thanks for sharing! Its a tough looking truck. I was hoping to see floats on the front, but that was wishful thinking seeing how none of their other trucks have them.