Oil Cooler Book Time?

[bobo]

Hey any one got an idea how long it takes to change the oil cooler on E7 in a RB? james

[Mackpro]

Hey any one got an idea how long it takes to change the oil cooler on E7 in a RB? james

Did it put oil in the radiator/coolant? Also I assume it the round tube style and not the newer square box style? I can look it up in my warranty labor code/time in the morning.

[bobo]

Did it put oil in the radiator/coolant? Also I assume it the round tube style and not the newer square box style? I can look it up in my warranty labor code/time in the morning.

yea its the round one, its never been changed, I and my local dealership think i have a flow problem, i did water pump 6 month ago. oil analysis has been saying it for awhile. now is the time Im guessing 3/3.5 hours? Im doing it my self so just wondering?

[bobo]

Did it put oil in the radiator/coolant? Also I assume it the round tube style and not the newer square box style? I can look it up in my warranty labor code/time in the morning.

Its a 460. the real problem is it runs hot, not gonna say over heats but hot(it has shut it down twice last year) it always has since new! Ive had 5 core rad made for it, I clean it alot(take air/air off to blow out) have checked time and time againg for air leaks, checked air comp., done bubble test and comb. gas test, changed water pump, put mechanical gauge in, new vicus fan, switched to longlife(red) coolent, had at dealer number of times and we cant fig. out!? so oil cooler was cheap enough and had the cash, if Im gonna take rad hose off to check for scale, might aswell change it out. like i said its orginal cooler. any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

I have wondered if i could put a bigger fan(blades) as there is about 2" from tip of blades to shroud. not enough distance from rad to waterpump to put air fan.

Edited March 17, 2010 by bobo

[fjh]

Its a 460. the real problem is it runs hot, not gonna say over heats but hot(it has shut it down twice last year) it always has since new! Ive had 5 core rad made for it, I clean it alot(take air/air off to blow out) have checked time and time againg for air leaks, checked air comp., done bubble test and comb. gas test, changed water pump, put mechanical gauge in, new vicus fan, switched to longlife(red) coolent, had at dealer number of times and we cant fig. out!? so oil cooler was cheap enough and had the cash, if Im gonna take rad hose off to check for scale, might aswell change it out. like i said its orginal cooler. any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

I have wondered if i could put a bigger fan(blades) as there is about 2" from tip of blades to shroud. not enough distance from rad to waterpump to put air fan.

Man you done everything your doing the last resort thing now!Let Us know how it goes!!!!!!

Your in the era for casting sand in the block I beleive, was there ever any compressor over heat problems?

Also low liners! has it been blowing coolant out?Or over preasuring the rad?We had one truck 2000 era blowing water filters off!Bubble tests don't work well as you can't check under load Been my observation the gas test kits are junk on a diesel engine they show nil!

Just guessing but If this cooler don't do the trick Liners would be my bet!

I think your real close for time on the cooler change out!

Just some thoughts

[Mackpro]

yea its the round one, its never been changed, I and my local dealership think i have a flow problem, i did water pump 6 month ago. oil analysis has been saying it for awhile. now is the time Im guessing 3/3.5 hours? Im doing it my self so just wondering?

That time is about what Mack pays us on warranty but in real life it could take longer. I'm thinking about 4 hr.

[Mackpro]

Its a 460. the real problem is it runs hot, not gonna say over heats but hot(it has shut it down twice last year) it always has since new! Ive had 5 core rad made for it, I clean it alot(take air/air off to blow out) have checked time and time againg for air leaks, checked air comp., done bubble test and comb. gas test, changed water pump, put mechanical gauge in, new vicus fan, switched to longlife(red) coolent, had at dealer number of times and we cant fig. out!? so oil cooler was cheap enough and had the cash, if Im gonna take rad hose off to check for scale, might aswell change it out. like i said its orginal cooler. any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

I have wondered if i could put a bigger fan(blades) as there is about 2" from tip of blades to shroud. not enough distance from rad to waterpump to put air fan.

Did it come from the factory as a 460HP? If it came orignally as a 350/400HP and someone bumped the HP up and didn't change the camshaft keyway it will overheat in the summer time. I know I have done it. If it was orignally a 460HP did it just start doing this? I have seen the wrong water pump put on and the truck over heats (pully to small or to big).

[bobo]

Did it come from the factory as a 460HP? If it came orignally as a 350/400HP and someone bumped the HP up and didn't change the camshaft keyway it will overheat in the summer time. I know I have done it. If it was orignally a 460HP did it just start doing this? I have seen the wrong water pump put on and the truck over heats (pully to small or to big).

hey thanks for your help! it came from factory as 460, cracked head at 427k, cam(right key) has been replaced twice under policy, its run hot since a day 1, its got 23xxx hours on it, 839k, i buy all my parts at dealer, they treat me well same guys still there when I was apperentice there 19 years ago. You have me thinking about the water pump now, I didnt know there was any difference in the pully size? its a visuc with serpt. belt. I had them ask about a diffent fan blade, mack said not an option, but I keep look for 1 any way! I swear sometime when I watch my temp gauge Im looking at boost pressure it moves up and down so much. again thanks for your help my ears never close! james

Edited March 17, 2010 by bobo

[bobo]

hey thanks for your help! it came from factory as 460, cracked head at 427k, cam(right key) has been replaced twice under policy, its run hot since a day 1, its got 23xxx hours on it, 839k, i buy all my parts at dealer, they treat me well same guys still there when I was apperentice there 19 years ago. You have me thinking about the water pump now, I didnt know there was any difference in the pully size? its a visuc with serpt. belt. I had them ask about a diffent fan blade, mack said not an option, but I keep look for 1 any way! I swear sometime when I watch my temp gauge Im looking at boost pressure it moves up and down so much. again thanks for your help my ears never close! james

the other thing I wonder about is a CH/CL used a 5" exhaust from turbo back, bigger rad, bigger air/air, bigger air piping from air inlets and more under hood room. an Rb every thing is smaller yet same motor?

[theakerstwo]

Man you done everything your doing the last resort thing now!Let Us know how it goes!!!!!!

Your in the era for casting sand in the block I beleive, was there ever any compressor over heat problems?

Also low liners! has it been blowing coolant out?Or over preasuring the rad?We had one truck 2000 era blowing water filters off!Bubble tests don't work well as you can't check under load Been my observation the gas test kits are junk on a diesel engine they show nil!

Just guessing but If this cooler don't do the trick Liners would be my bet!

I think your real close for time on the cooler change out!

I started before i retired using a long hose to connect to the rad over flow tube and i would run up to the wind shield into a bottle of water tied to a wiper arm and take it down the road or under a trailer to test for bubbles and how found some under load that will not show up on the floor.I like that test.

Just some thoughts

[fjh]

Guess thats worth a try if ya got the hose Glenn!

This is a real valid thought! Check into that one!

I have seen the wrong water pump put on and the truck over heats (pully to small or to big).

[Mackpro]

Guess thats worth a try if ya got the hose Glenn!

This is a real valid thought! Check into that one!

I have seen the wrong water pump put on and the truck over heats (pully to small or to big).

We sold a new RD or Rb or mabe a R688S many years ago (mech fuel pump) and it ran hot since new, Mack sent an engineer down to help us find the problem and turns out Mack put te wrong water pump on, even in the parts book/micro fich it listed the wrong part#. (micro-fich= along time ago). I did find a shop rag in an oil cooler one time and yes it made it run hot.

[MACKTRUCKS4]

Did it come from the factory as a 460HP? If it came orignally as a 350/400HP and someone bumped the HP up and didn't change the camshaft keyway it will overheat in the summer time. I know I have done it. If it was orignally a 460HP did it just start doing this? I have seen the wrong water pump put on and the truck over heats (pully to small or to big).

Mackpro68, what is this keyway you are talking about? I have a 2000 RD, 400 that I put superflow injectors in to give me 490Hp. It does run hot in the hot summer days. What is involved with putting it in? Is it a stepped key that you put in place of the stock key? Changing the cam to crank timing. What would you ask for at the dealer for part number?

[bobo]

how would I go about finding out what the right pully should be? james

[Packer]

Haven't been in trucks since 1980 BUT - - - At that time, there were several differant size fans in the system.

NOTE:

This was PRE- viscus fans!!

Air fans were the big thing than.

Woldn't have a clue where to look, but I'm sure a bigger non-factory fan is out there somewhere.

Another thought.

Viscus fans are betterfor milage and give you more useful horse power but for years the fan turned with the motor.

Worked good and you only bought a fan when the truck was new.

ZERO maintance!

(But you ran one gear, or 300 RPM slower in the hills)

These new fangled fans are something else - - - ya gotta be in

the Gezzer class to even remember non-thermal/viscus type fans.

Packer

[Mackpro]

Mackpro68, what is this keyway you are talking about? I have a 2000 RD, 400 that I put superflow injectors in to give me 490Hp. It does run hot in the hot summer days. What is involved with putting it in? Is it a stepped key that you put in place of the stock key? Changing the cam to crank timing. What would you ask for at the dealer for part number?

Its a off-set key way that goes on the cam gear. Retards the cam timing 1/2 degree. On the first series of ETECH engines 350-400 HP had straight key way, 427-460 HP off set retarded and 275-300 HP had off set advanced. When doing a HP conversion up 427-460 we had to pull the camshaft and press the gear off and install the off set key way. I have seen CL trucks get by with out changing the keyway due to large radiator but I have personal experiance with an RD that we tried without changing the keyway, it was back before summer to have it installed. Customer was tring to save money but had to do it after all. I have a service bulletin on it here some where, will post it when I find it. The ETECH CCRS series (starting around 2002) engine all used straight keyway's regardless of HP.

[Mackpro]

how would I go about finding out what the right pully should be? james

Probably not to many RB's with 460 ETECHs in them running around? if you know of any , ask to raise the hood and measure the diameter of W/P pully or ask the local Mack dealer to pull one off the shelf and measure and compare it to what you have on the truck . I have seen wrong parts put in the right box, gotta remember we now have Volvo in charge so anything is possible. Maybe a slipping water pump impeller, rare but it has happened. Also I saw a lower crank pully so wore out that the V-belts were sinking to the bottom and not grabbing good when tight, long shot though. Mack used to make lower temp thermostats but our parts guys here only keep the standard one (180 I think). I does have a thermostat in it I hope.

[fjh]

Probably not to many RB's with 460 ETECHs in them running around? if you know of any , ask to raise the hood and measure the diameter of W/P pully or ask the local Mack dealer to pull one off the shelf and measure and compare it to what you have on the truck . I have seen wrong parts put in the right box, gotta remember we now have Volvo in charge so anything is possible. Maybe a slipping water pump impeller, rare but it has happened. Also I saw a lower crank pully so wore out that the V-belts were sinking to the bottom and not grabbing good when tight, long shot though. Mack used to make lower temp thermostats but our parts guys here only keep the standard one (180 I think). I does have a thermostat in it I hope.

Lower stat is a lower stat It will open lower but still be open That probly won't fix the problem.

i like the water pump check idea makes sence!

Like I said let us know how it goes with the cooler change if it does the trick or not!

[Mackpro]

Its a off-set key way that goes on the cam gear. Retards the cam timing 1/2 degree. On the first series of ETECH engines 350-400 HP had straight key way, 427-460 HP off set retarded and 275-300 HP had off set advanced. When doing a HP conversion up 427-460 we had to pull the camshaft and press the gear off and install the off set key way. I have seen CL trucks get by with out changing the keyway due to large radiator but I have personal experiance with an RD that we tried without changing the keyway, it was back before summer to have it installed. Customer was tring to save money but had to do it after all. I have a service bulletin on it here some where, will post it when I find it. The ETECH CCRS series (starting around 2002) engine all used straight keyway's regardless of HP.

Found the bulletin but cant get the chart to appear, if need any more info I can e-mail it to anyone who needs it. DATE: 05/28/02

MODEL: E-TECH™ PRE-CCRS/CCRS

Title: OFFSET CAMSHAFT KEYS FOR E-TECH™ ENGINES

Offset Camshaft Keys For E-Tech™ Engines

(Also Applies to Mack Trucks Australia)

(Supersedes Bulletin SB-213-018 dated 2/29/00)

To optimize camshaft timing for certain E-Tech™ pre-CCRS engine models, an offset type camshaft key (part No. 54GC29) has been developed. This key provides a cam gear offset of 1 degree cam/2 degrees engine from the straight key position. The offset key is color coded (with one end of the key painted white, and the other end painted red) and is installed with the offset either to the right (cam timing retarded) or to the left (cam timing advanced). The offset style key was released into production during June 1997 for E-Tech™ E7-427 and E7-460 engine models (beginning with engine serial number series 7M) and during January 1998 for certain other E-Tech™ engine models (beginning with engine serial number series 8A).

Correct camshaft key offset installation is dependent upon engine horsepower ratings. When utilizing the offset key, it must be installed with the proper color facing front. The figure below illustrates the E-Tech™ cam gear keys and their identifying features. If a key has lost its paint markings, it can be properly installed by placing the offset (as viewed from the front) in the direction shown below. Refer to the chart on page 2 for the various key applications.

Straight camshaft keys (43AX9) are used on all E-Tech™ CCRS engines regardless of horsepower.

[bobo]

Did it come from the factory as a 460HP? If it came orignally as a 350/400HP and someone bumped the HP up and didn't change the camshaft keyway it will overheat in the summer time. I know I have done it. If it was orignally a 460HP did it just start doing this? I have seen the wrong water pump put on and the truck over heats (pully to small or to big).

Well.... changed the oil cooler, It looked good(not pluged). BUT there were some metal filings in the coolent tubes!? and no cavatation on the caps. Last time I checked the only moving part in the cooling system is the waterpump. any one got an xray gun I can borrow so I can check the pump LOL! james

Edited March 20, 2010 by bobo

[fjh]

Well.... changed the oil cooler, It looked good(not pluged). BUT there were some metal filings in the coolent tubes!? and no cavatation on the caps. Last time I checked the only moving part in the cooling system is the waterpump. any one got an xray gun I can borrow so I can check the pump LOL! james

any one got an xray gun I can borrow so I can check the pump LOL! james

Fresh Out

Bro!

Ahh yes Water pump Time!

[bobo]

what is the "normal" trany temp? its eaton 18d/o with syn oil. Im getting up to 205/210 when empty, but at other times around 140. Ive checked the gauge its right. At times it takes forever to drop down at when not in gear, could it be dumping heat in the coolent? bobo