cgallamore Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 what I'd really like to know is if it's practical to switch the present computer out with an older model 460 (pre-EGR) then removing the EGR system and use and old style turbo. Quote http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/uploads/1272400769/gallery_4852_794_314995.jpg Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryB Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 what I'd really like to know is if it's practical to switch the present computer out with an older model 460 (pre-EGR) then removing the EGR system and use and old style turbo.now we're cooking. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-51656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 now we're cooking.OK you 2, I seen this comin !I'll nibble! I think it would be too costly to do! To time consuming to do ! Maybe once youv'e made your second Million and your semi retired then get a donor truck and swap all the wiring stuff over into your CH and Jerrys CX then it will be worth it!Dont forget the engine brain is on the other side of the engine on the older trucks theres a lot more to this than just poping off a turbo.And removing the egr cooler crap! huge can of worms!Just my opinion! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-51687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackpro Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 what I'd really like to know is if it's practical to switch the present computer out with an older model 460 (pre-EGR) then removing the EGR system and use and old style turbo.It could be done, what you will try to do is change the engine over to a CCRS ETECH style engine, but your looking at a complete engine wiring harness, exhaust manifold, new engine ECM, intake manifold off of an AI engine (for EMC mounting) and possible all 6 new EUP's and possible new VECU. Then your looking at 2 or more days to install all the parts then at least a day of programing to make it all work then who knows what actual HP will be due to different camshaft and compression ratio between the two engines. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-51688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyRebel Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 It could be done, what you will try to do is change the engine over to a CCRS ETECH style engine, but your looking at a complete engine wiring harness, exhaust manifold, new engine ECM, intake manifold off of an AI engine (for EMC mounting) and possible all 6 new EUP's and possible new VECU. Then your looking at 2 or more days to install all the parts then at least a day of programing to make it all work then who knows what actual HP will be due to different camshaft and compression ratio between the two engines....and then, if you are caught, the EPA will be after whatever is left in your bank account.Seems like it would be easier to just find a wrecked pre-emission truck with a good engine and swap everything. Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-51691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 ...and then, if you are caught, the EPA will be after whatever is left in your bank account.Seems like it would be easier to just find a wrecked pre-emission truck with a good engine and swap everything.You'll have a nice lawn orniment when your done thou! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-51696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyRebel Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 You'll have a nice lawn orniment when your done thou! ...or a boat anchor Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-51697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 now we're cooking.SO the question IS practicality!THE Answer in my mind is NO! Not practical. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-51698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgallamore Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 im sure i can speak for jerryb also when i say we do thank all of you for taking time to help us understand this challenge, it has been rolling around our heads for quite a while.it sounds like we are gonna have to wait on mackpro's test kit, and live with the turbos. Quote http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/uploads/1272400769/gallery_4852_794_314995.jpg Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-51709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bts-4120 Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 to bad Mack did away with the glider kit option Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-51711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryB Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 im sure i can speak for jerryb also when i say we do thank all of you for taking time to help us understand this challenge, it has been rolling around our heads for quite a while.it sounds like we are gonna have to wait on mackpro's test kit, and live with the turbos.Yeah it's been rattling around in my head for a long time.I ran across a good deal on a new turbo so I bought it and put it under my bed. Some guy on ebay had bought a garage and the turbo was in the parts room still in the Mack box brand new so I gave him $500 for it.I forgot to tell you guys that Mack sent my refund for the failed turbo. I had bought it brand new from Mack and it only made it 6100 miles then failed. They inspected it at Memphis, Tenn and said it had seized a bearing so they sent me a check for $3400. That has raised my opinion of Mack considerably. No troubles since fjh and MackPro talked me through the coolant pushing problem so I'm hammer down with a smile from ear to ear. Since it's not practical to un-EGR our motors then I think I'll run the EGR motor til it dies then put a mechanical 427 in. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-51726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackpro Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 im sure i can speak for jerryb also when i say we do thank all of you for taking time to help us understand this challenge, it has been rolling around our heads for quite a while.it sounds like we are gonna have to wait on mackpro's test kit, and live with the turbos.Last Friday I did my first test with my Mass Flow "fooler" and it did not work. Even with the correct ohm resistors installed it came back "open circuit" on the Mass Flow sensor. But I will not give up. Blocking off the EGR valve is somewhat easy. but I want to remove everything to save weight, I started to weigh every part that makes up the EGR system and it is close to 60 pounds of crap that we could remove from the engine. This week might be slow enough I can mess with it some more. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-51732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryB Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 Last Friday I did my first test with my Mass Flow "fooler" and it did not work. Even with the correct ohm resistors installed it came back "open circuit" on the Mass Flow sensor. But I will not give up. Blocking off the EGR valve is somewhat easy. but I want to remove everything to save weight, I started to weigh every part that makes up the EGR system and it is close to 60 pounds of crap that we could remove from the engine. This week might be slow enough I can mess with it some more.maybe it's true about ignorance being bliss because all I did was put the plate in and haven't had any problem at all. Before the plate was put in I had to clean the cooler once and had to replace the cooler once due to exhaust leak into coolant system. I'd like to strip off the excess baggage too so let us know how it comes along. Thx-Jerry Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-51765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgallamore Posted March 23, 2010 Author Share Posted March 23, 2010 maybe it's true about ignorance being bliss because all I did was put the plate in and haven't had any problem at all. Before the plate was put in I had to clean the cooler once and had to replace the cooler once due to exhaust leak into coolant system. I'd like to strip off the excess baggage too so let us know how it comes along. Thx-Jerryi don't know what to do, you are having good luck with the plate, mackpro had one stopped up last week, wich is the same as the plate, and it was throwing a code, only difference is plate is above mass flow tube????? clog was below??????mine is running good so i hate to mess with it, but it's gona crack sooner or later!!!!!!!i am wandering how fjh plate job is doing?????? Quote http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/uploads/1272400769/gallery_4852_794_314995.jpg Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-51777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryB Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 i don't know what to do, you are having good luck with the plate, mackpro had one stopped up last week, wich is the same as the plate, and it was throwing a code, only difference is plate is above mass flow tube????? clog was below??????mine is running good so i hate to mess with it, but it's gona crack sooner or later!!!!!!!i am wandering how fjh plate job is doing??????If I were you and it's not broke I wouldn't fix it. The reason I originally blocked mine was because I didn't want to clean it again one day or replace it when it cracks. When it clogged cost several hundred dollars to clean and then when it cracked I think it was about $1300 just for the cooler. The engine runs fine blocked with no codes but maybe I'm just having a fool's luck with mine.These Mack doctors are gonna find a cure just hang on. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-51780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIREMAN Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Just took my '07 into the dealer Tuesday. It was showing a code of 59. The book says that it is EGR Delta pressure or mass flow. The shop foreman said the EGR cooler was probably bad and it was. Haven't got it back yet, won't be able to pick it up till Monday AM. I would be interested in "un EGRing" mine later on. Right now mine is still under emissions warranty till Dec. of 2011 I am still very much interested in your findings with the plate. The company, my part time mechanic works for has an '04 he would like to try that on.Let me knowLarry Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-54588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackpro Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Just took my '07 into the dealer Tuesday. It was showing a code of 59. The book says that it is EGR Delta pressure or mass flow. The shop foreman said the EGR cooler was probably bad and it was. Haven't got it back yet, won't be able to pick it up till Monday AM. I would be interested in "un EGRing" mine later on. Right now mine is still under emissions warranty till Dec. of 2011 I am still very much interested in your findings with the plate. The company, my part time mechanic works for has an '04 he would like to try that on.Let me knowLarryFJH has few trucks running with block off plates with mixed results, haven't heard from him in a few days, hope he has some good news. My approch was to completly remove EGR valve, EGR cooler, mass flow pipe and oil lines and coolant lines to these componets ( to save weight, 60 lbs) . The only thing left would be the Mass flow ECM (behind engine ECM). With resistors plugged into the mass flow ECM I could fool the EGR flow and EGR temp (these make up the Mass Flow sensor/pipe) into thinking it had some flow and a OK temp. The engine ECM looks at "target" EGR flow (what flow should be) and compares it with the "actual" flow (read from the Mass flow sensor) . If actual flow is 10pounds or more than target flow it sets a code (stuck open EGR valve probably). If the actual flow is 10 pounds less that the target flow it sets a code (plugged EGR cooler probably). The trick is to get a happy medium. I have made many trips to Radio Shack for resistors. Haven't given up yet but only get to work on it a few hours a week due to a full shop of broke trucks. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-54601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 FJH has few trucks running with block off plates with mixed results, haven't heard from him in a few days, hope he has some good news. My approch was to completly remove EGR valve, EGR cooler, mass flow pipe and oil lines and coolant lines to these componets ( to save weight, 60 lbs) . The only thing left would be the Mass flow ECM (behind engine ECM). With resistors plugged into the mass flow ECM I could fool the EGR flow and EGR temp (these make up the Mass Flow sensor/pipe) into thinking it had some flow and a OK temp. The engine ECM looks at "target" EGR flow (what flow should be) and compares it with the "actual" flow (read from the Mass flow sensor) . If actual flow is 10pounds or more than target flow it sets a code (stuck open EGR valve probably). If the actual flow is 10 pounds less that the target flow it sets a code (plugged EGR cooler probably). The trick is to get a happy medium. I have made many trips to Radio Shack for resistors. Haven't given up yet but only get to work on it a few hours a week due to a full shop of broke trucks.I had Three in service !(truck 2) Back down to two the guy claimed it reduced his power!The first guy I did is happy saving 40 bucks a day in fuel no power complaint.truck three verdict is still out on he has thrown a code but it took a hundred miles to do so no power decrease and no coment on the fuel savings as of yet this was well worth trying thou!68A thought here what happens if the egr valve gets stuck in the half way postion by say, capping off the oil flow to the valve??? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-54621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted May 8, 2010 Share Posted May 8, 2010 I had Three in service !(truck 2) Back down to two the guy claimed it reduced his power!The first guy I did is happy saving 40 bucks a day in fuel no power complaint.truck three verdict is still out on he has thrown a code but it took a hundred miles to do so no power decrease and no coment on the fuel savings as of yet this was well worth trying thou!68A thought here what happens if the egr valve gets stuck in the half way postion by say, capping off the oil flow to the valve???So truck three was back this weekend hes seeing no loss of power maybe even an increase and as of yet no milage gain on the mpg But thats on the VIP read out averaged over how many miles? So the saga continues and the jury still out for a while!If we gadually start seeing an increase that will tell the tale!Hes been getting the same milage from day one so its going to take quite a while to read any increase on the vip!EGR code still intact! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-54728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambi80 Posted May 9, 2010 Share Posted May 9, 2010 So truck three was back this weekend hes seeing no loss of power maybe even an increase and as of yet no milage gain on the mpg But thats on the VIP read out averaged over how many miles? So the saga continues and the jury still out for a while!If we gadually start seeing an increase that will tell the tale!Hes been getting the same milage from day one so its going to take quite a while to read any increase on the vip!EGR code still intact!Just curious how you guys get the guinea pigs for this project? Who pays for labor/parts etc...?Almost makes me wish I'da bought that '04 Vision...sales guy last shot me a price of $26,000 including adding the jake brake to it... And have Bigen hook me up with a couple loads to and from wherever Mackpro is to get it set up. Quote Ever wonder how a blind person knows when to stop wiping? Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-54734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted May 9, 2010 Share Posted May 9, 2010 Just curious how you guys get the guinea pigs for this project? Who pays for labor/parts etc...?Almost makes me wish I'da bought that '04 Vision...sales guy last shot me a price of $26,000 including adding the jake brake to it... And have Bigen hook me up with a couple loads to and from wherever Mackpro is to get it set up.In this case he asked for it to be done!He paid!I made the plate it takes but fifteen minutes to make a plate did that for free.If I find this to be worth the while I will be doing this at exhast gasket time!IF asked to do so!Under a job line on the work order REPAIR EGR system. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-54753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgallamore Posted May 9, 2010 Author Share Posted May 9, 2010 Just curious how you guys get the guinea pigs for this project? Who pays for labor/parts etc...?Almost makes me wish I'da bought that '04 Vision...sales guy last shot me a price of $26,000 including adding the jake brake to it... And have Bigen hook me up with a couple loads to and from wherever Mackpro is to get it set up.i think jerryb is having some goodluck with his finnaly.best i can figure, any egr motor, needs a certain amount off recent upgrades. as for the 04 if it doesn't you can figure $6,000 to $13,000 in getting it ready to do some serious trucking, i would say if you can get a really nice 04 with around 300,000 miles, cheep enough(around $15,000) to spend that kind of bucks on it, would be a wise investment. given it would be sent strait to the shop for all upgrades befor hauling the first load.just my opinion............. Quote http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/uploads/1272400769/gallery_4852_794_314995.jpg Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-54755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgallamore Posted May 9, 2010 Author Share Posted May 9, 2010 as for how they get the guiny pigs, when you dont know about the 04's and you get stuck with one, you instantlly become a guiny pig, like reaching for a life ring when your drowning...... Quote http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/uploads/1272400769/gallery_4852_794_314995.jpg Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-54756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryB Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 as for how they get the guiny pigs, when you dont know about the 04's and you get stuck with one, you instantlly become a guiny pig, like reaching for a life ring when your drowning......That's right bigen. Like you I didn't ask to be a test rat but once the name was signed on the bottom line I was turned into one. The main problem I've had is people in the local Mack shop who don't know how to troubleshoot or complete a repair, they do fully understand how to work the labor rate book tho. I'm sure if I had known fjr and MackPro when I started having troubles it would have gone better and been more economical. There's no telling how many $$$ those 2 guys have saved me as I've had to re-repair the butcher work done by Houston Mack. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-54916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgallamore Posted May 16, 2010 Author Share Posted May 16, 2010 That's right bigen. Like you I didn't ask to be a test rat but once the name was signed on the bottom line I was turned into one. The main problem I've had is people in the local Mack shop who don't know how to troubleshoot or complete a repair, they do fully understand how to work the labor rate book tho. I'm sure if I had known fjr and MackPro when I started having troubles it would have gone better and been more economical. There's no telling how many $$$ those 2 guys have saved me as I've had to re-repair the butcher work done by Houston Mack.mackpro is rite along the way on your chicago/ houston turn. Quote http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/uploads/1272400769/gallery_4852_794_314995.jpg Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/13119-un-egr/#findComment-55261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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