Volvo And Mack Merger

[hoffy]

Hi guys i am a volvo master tech ive been at the same dealer in Northeast,PA for 11 years i know there is other posts for volvo and mack related topics but i decided to start my own and try to clear the air about some things at the most throw a few very good opinions out there i have seen guys on here say volvo engines are junk they are garbage.....not true besides the new 13 liter dpf engines this is not true the actual meat and potatoes of volvo engines are damn near bulletproof now the emissions related items and electronic components are giving the volvo engines a bad name the only engine that you mack guys out there wont see to much of and will love cuz they are so easy to work on is the 16 liter which i believe will be called the mp-10 (its the big horse dpf engine)now the 13 liter is also a great engine however they r droppin like flies mainly due to injector cup failures,turbos,engine wiring harnesses now i have also seen some people say they have totally dropped any mack ideas and basically said screw mack...on the volvo side of things this is not true they r coming out with stainless steel cups which was a mack design,they are also goin to be using mack designed wiring harnesses which seem to hold up alot better,also yes the new mack engines are dressed up volvo engines do not let anyone fool you or tell u otherwise,now as to working on these engines they are very very very easy to work on they are basically idiot proof however this will take awhile until you mack guys get to know them very good and also when diagnosin them throw all of your logic and basic skills out the window there is so many design flaws and alot of engineering flaws when it comes to these engines,now alot of people have said that they are not reliable and are junk....lol this is 100 percent true this merger i feel will build volvos reputation due to the fact of volvo using alot of macks great engineering ideas for there products and its going to kill the amazing reputation that mack has built there bottom line on just because of one big thing and i hate to say it and everyone can call me a liar but its true you are gonna see alot of new design items being put on mack engines before you see them on volvo engines because mack engines are going to be the test whores,i just came back from a new products school and wait til u guys see the newest epa engine hahahahahahahaha J.O.K.E JOKE after this class i found a 87 superliner with a magnum 500 i bought it and am in the process of fixing it up with the little things it needs and will be paintin it next week cuz in a year and a half i am done with this bs and am going to be signing on with a local transfer station and ill be haulin 53 foot garbage trailers makin 300 bucks mor a week and no aggrevation manufactuers are getting out of hand with these federal law regulated designs and its a shame cuz alot of honest truck owners and workers are the ones that are getting hurt well im done ramblin on if anyone has any complaints or questions feel free to shoot them my way and ill try my best to help resolve them but All You Mack Guys And DieHard Mack Enthusiasts The End Of Great Products And Trucks Is Here

[fjh]

Hi guys i am a volvo master tech ive been at the same dealer in Northeast,PA for 11 years i know there is other posts for volvo and mack related topics but i decided to start my own and try to clear the air about some things at the most throw a few very good opinions out there i have seen guys on here say volvo engines are junk they are garbage.....not true besides the new 13 liter dpf engines this is not true the actual meat and potatoes of volvo engines are damn near bulletproof now the emissions related items and electronic components are giving the volvo engines a bad name the only engine that you mack guys out there wont see to much of and will love cuz they are so easy to work on is the 16 liter which i believe will be called the mp-10 (its the big horse dpf engine)now the 13 liter is also a great engine however they r droppin like flies mainly due to injector cup failures,turbos,engine wiring harnesses now i have also seen some people say they have totally dropped any mack ideas and basically said screw mack...on the volvo side of things this is not true they r coming out with stainless steel cups which was a mack design,they are also goin to be using mack designed wiring harnesses which seem to hold up alot better,also yes the new mack engines are dressed up volvo engines do not let anyone fool you or tell u otherwise,now as to working on these engines they are very very very easy to work on they are basically idiot proof however this will take awhile until you mack guys get to know them very good and also when diagnosin them throw all of your logic and basic skills out the window there is so many design flaws and alot of engineering flaws when it comes to these engines,now alot of people have said that they are not reliable and are junk....lol this is 100 percent true this merger i feel will build volvos reputation due to the fact of volvo using alot of macks great engineering ideas for there products and its going to kill the amazing reputation that mack has built there bottom line on just because of one big thing and i hate to say it and everyone can call me a liar but its true you are gonna see alot of new design items being put on mack engines before you see them on volvo engines because mack engines are going to be the test whores,i just came back from a new products school and wait til u guys see the newest epa engine hahahahahahahaha J.O.K.E JOKE after this class i found a 87 superliner with a magnum 500 i bought it and am in the process of fixing it up with the little things it needs and will be paintin it next week cuz in a year and a half i am done with this bs and am going to be signing on with a local transfer station and ill be haulin 53 foot garbage trailers makin 300 bucks mor a week and no aggrevation manufactuers are getting out of hand with these federal law regulated designs and its a shame cuz alot of honest truck owners and workers are the ones that are getting hurt well im done ramblin on if anyone has any complaints or questions feel free to shoot them my way and ill try my best to help resolve them but All You Mack Guys And DieHard Mack Enthusiasts The End Of Great Products And Trucks Is Here

Thanx for chiming in!I sumwhat agree with some of your comments Yup we need help lots of it!If Barry will see to it that you can join in on the Corporate forum Please get signed up. You will see what is being talked about. Your help will be greatly appreciated As for the mp ten we have only two here running the hyw and off road yup they need to buy better wiring.

and Its nice to work on in the Titain which right now is the only model its offered in!

As for bullet proof The mp engines replaced an already bullet proof engine that had the same crap bolted to it which also ruined that engine The base engine was good the bolt ons were trash as they are on the volvo Engine!The diffrence being it was easier to work on than the mp engines .

you'll have to pardon my negitivity towards the mp but the out landish flat rate times they give you to do stuff is rediculus to say the least.

Just getting to do half the tests you have to do for some of the most stupid problems that have already been learned by mack we are doing the same stuff over agian!

I would really like you to take part in the corporate forum PLEASE contact BARRY and GET signed up Bro.

[spud]

well you just made the statment that mack engines are being the tesr "whores' .well mate this is the reason most aussie operators i know are switching to other truck brands as the new mack/volvo product is utter shit.try and come up with all the excuses you like their new breed engines are rubbish . no good for aussie conditions at all. there all good if you spend 90 percent of the time on the tarmac . all i can say is thanks VOLVO for ruining another legendary brand... R.I.P REAL MACK TRUCKS.

[hatcity]

Can I use this as the longest run on sentence in history? ONE LOOOOONG complete babble.

I got a little dizzy trying to read that. No period, barely a comma. Caps were for laughter.

Being a "master" tech at VULVA, with that command of the English language.

I rest my case

[theakerstwo]

fjh talking about the factory not giving enough time for repairs cat DD and cummins is the dame way on warranty.The cat test that have to be made and sent in with the claims is same way for time.I am glad i am out of the race.glenn

[Mackpro]

Thanx for chiming in!I sumwhat agree with some of your comments Yup we need help lots of it!If Barry will see to it that you can join in on the Corporate forum Please get signed up. You will see what is being talked about. Your help will be greatly appreciated As for the mp ten we have only two here running the hyw and off road yup they need to buy better wiring.

and Its nice to work on in the Titain which right now is the only model its offered in!

As for bullet proof The mp engines replaced an already bullet proof engine that had the same crap bolted to it which also ruined that engine The base engine was good the bolt ons were trash as they are on the volvo Engine!The diffrence being it was easier to work on than the mp engines .

you'll have to pardon my negitivity towards the mp but the out landish flat rate times they give you to do stuff is rediculus to say the least.

Just getting to do half the tests you have to do for some of the most stupid problems that have already been learned by mack we are doing the same stuff over agian!

I would really like you to take part in the corporate forum PLEASE contact BARRY and GET signed up Bro.

I did get word last week that all MP with SCR will have the stainless cups, no word on being able to install these in the older MP's. I do think that the MP engine is a good engine but like he said its the extra crap thats bolted on that gives the most trouble. If they get the cups and wiring harness problem fixed we will be go to go. Just got done replacing a complete engine wiring harness and oil level sensor on a 2 year old MRU full of garbage, I know Mack warranty wont pay the 2 days it took me to do it in.

[1970Rmodel]

Hi guys i am a volvo master tech ive been at the same dealer in Northeast,PA for 11 years i know there is other posts for volvo and mack related topics but i decided to start my own and try to clear the air about some things at the most throw a few very good opinions out there i have seen guys on here say volvo engines are junk they are garbage.....not true besides the new 13 liter dpf engines this is not true the actual meat and potatoes of volvo engines are damn near bulletproof now the emissions related items and electronic components are giving the volvo engines a bad name the only engine that you mack guys out there wont see to much of and will love cuz they are so easy to work on is the 16 liter which i believe will be called the mp-10 (its the big horse dpf engine)now the 13 liter is also a great engine however they r droppin like flies mainly due to injector cup failures,turbos,engine wiring harnesses now i have also seen some people say they have totally dropped any mack ideas and basically said screw mack...on the volvo side of things this is not true they r coming out with stainless steel cups which was a mack design,they are also goin to be using mack designed wiring harnesses which seem to hold up alot better,also yes the new mack engines are dressed up volvo engines do not let anyone fool you or tell u otherwise,now as to working on these engines they are very very very easy to work on they are basically idiot proof however this will take awhile until you mack guys get to know them very good and also when diagnosin them throw all of your logic and basic skills out the window there is so many design flaws and alot of engineering flaws when it comes to these engines,now alot of people have said that they are not reliable and are junk....lol this is 100 percent true this merger i feel will build volvos reputation due to the fact of volvo using alot of macks great engineering ideas for there products and its going to kill the amazing reputation that mack has built there bottom line on just because of one big thing and i hate to say it and everyone can call me a liar but its true you are gonna see alot of new design items being put on mack engines before you see them on volvo engines because mack engines are going to be the test whores,i just came back from a new products school and wait til u guys see the newest epa engine hahahahahahahaha J.O.K.E JOKE after this class i found a 87 superliner with a magnum 500 i bought it and am in the process of fixing it up with the little things it needs and will be paintin it next week cuz in a year and a half i am done with this bs and am going to be signing on with a local transfer station and ill be haulin 53 foot garbage trailers makin 300 bucks mor a week and no aggrevation manufactuers are getting out of hand with these federal law regulated designs and its a shame cuz alot of honest truck owners and workers are the ones that are getting hurt well im done ramblin on if anyone has any complaints or questions feel free to shoot them my way and ill try my best to help resolve them but All You Mack Guys And DieHard Mack Enthusiasts The End Of Great Products And Trucks Is Here

Mack had 13.3% market share in 1999, and now 10 years after Volvo bought them, Mack has 7.5%. What happened here is simple - Volvo bought another competitor, then they "integrated" them with their poor data management systems and then they "synergized" their product for part cost savings on all models in purchasing of parts, this included commonizing many parts from the volvo models into the macks, the frames are now identical (with the exception of the LEU/MRU refuse models) as well as the engines, and many of the parts such as steps, deck plates, fuel tanks, etc. After that the final blow came which was "consolidation" of the Mack World Headquarters putting hundreds of people out of work, a very small percentage did re-locate to North Carolina where they have a far inferior presence and design validation facility vs Allentown PA. All the while more parts for the Mack are now made outside the USA than you can imagine but I guess thats the way it is for all OEMs nowadays since the Govt sold our jobs down the river with NAFTA and free trade with china etc., I.T. Support for volvo/mack is done from their site in BRAZIL and INDIA as well as many engineering fuctions with the exception of Customer Engineering based in Allentown PA (for now).

However, on a positive note MACK is the ONLY CLASS 8 OEM still assembling trucks in the USA and let me tell you their Macungie Assembly plant is THE BEST truck plant in the world. They do it better, faster, and have very high quality people out there.

With Volvo though, there is a pattern here,,, first they dismantled WHITE trucks, then they went thru AUTOCAR and what you see today as a VHD model is really an autocar/volvo combined truck, then they went after the big gun for construction market share in north america --- MACK.... who is next? very sad state of affairs in all this.

[1970Rmodel]

I did get word last week that all MP with SCR will have the stainless cups, no word on being able to install these in the older MP's. I do think that the MP engine is a good engine but like he said its the extra crap thats bolted on that gives the most trouble. If they get the cups and wiring harness problem fixed we will be go to go. Just got done replacing a complete engine wiring harness and oil level sensor on a 2 year old MRU full of garbage, I know Mack warranty wont pay the 2 days it took me to do it in.

The MACK TEST CENTER in Allentown discovered the injector cup problem a few years ago, volvo was told to change them because copper injector cups were only lasting 25000 miles. The MACK E7 was a much simpler engine to work on, and it made reliable power. My 1970 R-model is still going strong with 820,000 miles, its never been apart.

Oh, and wait till you see the SCR on the back of the refuse trucks. Just close your eyes and scream.

[Swishy]

CRAP

[hoffy]

Can I use this as the longest run on sentence in history? ONE LOOOOONG complete babble.

I got a little dizzy trying to read that. No period, barely a comma. Caps were for laughter.

Being a "master" tech at VULVA, with that command of the English language.

I rest my case

well thank you for your interest in this topic i apologize for not having proper grammar or periods or ending sentences when i should have however on that note in the internet world that is referred to as short hand but i guess you already knew that sense you seem to have all the answers so if you do not like what im writing or the way it is written simply refer to not looking at it thanks for your time...........by the way you forgot an exclamation mark at the end of i rest my case

[hoffy]

fjh talking about the factory not giving enough time for repairs cat DD and cummins is the dame way on warranty.The cat test that have to be made and sent in with the claims is same way for time.I am glad i am out of the race.glenn

thankfully ive never dealt with cat but you are 100 percent right its out of hand especially cummins heres an example on a cummins isx dpf engine 5 hours to replace the egr cooler and they want even all the gaskets and even broken clamps sent back to them my guess is the economy is in the shitter and moneys tight so any reason they can come up with to not pay the claim in full they are looking for it downright sucks let alone the wasted time a tech has to go through to file a claim through rapidserve now volvo on the other hand is much easier and less time consuming there system is online its called eserve its basically like a chatroom they just developed it and it is fantastic because it was designed by volvo techs not engineers and also if you are over your srt time with volvo they ask for a reason whether it be broken bolts that had to be drilled out or even steam clean engine as long as you specify the reason why the time was over they pay your claim no problem

[Mackpro]

thankfully ive never dealt with cat but you are 100 percent right its out of hand especially cummins heres an example on a cummins isx dpf engine 5 hours to replace the egr cooler and they want even all the gaskets and even broken clamps sent back to them my guess is the economy is in the shitter and moneys tight so any reason they can come up with to not pay the claim in full they are looking for it downright sucks let alone the wasted time a tech has to go through to file a claim through rapidserve now volvo on the other hand is much easier and less time consuming there system is online its called eserve its basically like a chatroom they just developed it and it is fantastic because it was designed by volvo techs not engineers and also if you are over your srt time with volvo they ask for a reason whether it be broken bolts that had to be drilled out or even steam clean engine as long as you specify the reason why the time was over they pay your claim no problem

The E-service is easy to use but every question I ask is always answered by "follow GD (guided diagnostics)" . I asked a easy question about EGR flow when the EGR valve is closed on a MP7 and same answer "follow GD". The only reason I use E-service is to document a problem and get a E-service case number so I can enter it into the E-warranty to get extra diagnostic time if needed. E-service is a joke, back before the big move when Mack still had it's own engineers, we had all their phone #'s and could call for questions, now that Volvo has taken over and all the Mack guys are gone(almost,God Bless Dan Lamarch and one or two others) we have no real contact with the engineers. We are a Mack only dealer and used to do Cummins warranty and your right about rapidserve (Cummins warranty system) it sucked and we dropped being a Cummins dealer. I do all warranty claims and the Mack is better than the rest, Fuller is OK but I rate Meritor the worst. I have never took the time to write a big corporation a nasty letter but I did that day and all over a $50 part that they would not warranty. I was pissed beyond belief. I have 3 close friends who buy new Mack's every 4 years and when they ask me about spec'ing one out you can bet it dont have Meritor trans or axle's. That $50 part cost them more than they will ever know.

[hoffy]

The E-service is easy to use but every question I ask is always answered by "follow GD (guided diagnostics)" . I asked a easy question about EGR flow when the EGR valve is closed on a MP7 and same answer "follow GD". The only reason I use E-service is to document a problem and get a E-service case number so I can enter it into the E-warranty to get extra diagnostic time if needed. E-service is a joke, back before the big move when Mack still had it's own engineers, we had all their phone #'s and could call for questions, now that Volvo has taken over and all the Mack guys are gone(almost,God Bless Dan Lamarch and one or two others) we have no real contact with the engineers. We are a Mack only dealer and used to do Cummins warranty and your right about rapidserve (Cummins warranty system) it sucked and we dropped being a Cummins dealer. I do all warranty claims and the Mack is better than the rest, Fuller is OK but I rate Meritor the worst. I have never took the time to write a big corporation a nasty letter but I did that day and all over a $50 part that they would not warranty. I was pissed beyond belief. I have 3 close friends who buy new Mack's every 4 years and when they ask me about spec'ing one out you can bet it dont have Meritor trans or axle's. That $50 part cost them more than they will ever know.

i have only seen that case a few times when it first came out but yes i am the same way with eserve cya (cover your ass) wow its amazing how differently dealers are being treated by eserve one thing thats for sure no one likes volvo including volvo guys but meritor seriously sucks everyone that works for them needs to be fired..lol

[fjh]

The E-service is easy to use but every question I ask is always answered by "follow GD (guided diagnostics)" . I asked a easy question about EGR flow when the EGR valve is closed on a MP7 and same answer "follow GD". The only reason I use E-service is to document a problem and get a E-service case number so I can enter it into the E-warranty to get extra diagnostic time if needed. E-service is a joke, back before the big move when Mack still had it's own engineers, we had all their phone #'s and could call for questions, now that Volvo has taken over and all the Mack guys are gone(almost,God Bless Dan Lamarch and one or two others) we have no real contact with the engineers. We are a Mack only dealer and used to do Cummins warranty and your right about rapidserve (Cummins warranty system) it sucked and we dropped being a Cummins dealer. I do all warranty claims and the Mack is better than the rest, Fuller is OK but I rate Meritor the worst. I have never took the time to write a big corporation a nasty letter but I did that day and all over a $50 part that they would not warranty. I was pissed beyond belief. I have 3 close friends who buy new Mack's every 4 years and when they ask me about spec'ing one out you can bet it dont have Meritor trans or axle's. That $50 part cost them more than they will ever know.

Yup the gd crutch!We have had our share of this,The guided diag thing is a bit of a joke as well you can spend a good day doing all the steps in the dam thing and still come up with a dry hole!O the dpf is pluged well how did it get pluged all the temp readings were right,!As wrench said you can't read how the engine is running cause all of our sences have been taken away no smoke to read nothin, only a half baked computer program to look at that gives you half the story!

68 Don't get me all fired up on the meritor issue!The prostitutes of the parts world!The copy cats of the truck industry!There aint nothin they can't copy and screw up!

[Mackpro]

i have only seen that case a few times when it first came out but yes i am the same way with eserve cya (cover your ass) wow its amazing how differently dealers are being treated by eserve one thing thats for sure no one likes volvo including volvo guys but meritor seriously sucks everyone that works for them needs to be fired..lol

E-service for parts is great. I use it alot for HP conversions and Josh there is the best, very quick with my request, I think he new to the Mack side but sure caught on fast and is great . Tech Support is where I have my problem, if they dont know the answer to my question, be honest and tell me, I dont expect them to know every answer to my questions but at least try to find out instead of blowing me off with "follow GD" . The only reason I'm posting this outside of the "Corprate forum" is to let the customers out there know what it's like for us Tech's to get help/info for hard diagnostic problems. I try to use E-service because Mack warranty wont pay us to be on hold for 15-30 minutes (or more) if we try to call Tech support on the phone.

[hoffy]

Yup the gd crutch!We have had our share of this,The guided diag thing is a bit of a joke as well you can spend a good day doing all the steps in the dam thing and still come up with a dry hole!O the dpf is pluged well how did it get pluged all the temp readings were right,!As wrench said you can't read how the engine is running cause all of our sences have been taken away no smoke to read nothin, only a half baked computer program to look at that gives you half the story!

alot of time in order to get anywhere with eserve it pays to be a very good bullshitter now if everything regen related seems ok and u feel it just hasnt had regens performed and completed as they should of been, when they would ask how it got plugged my response is a ghost nox sensor code that comes and goes this will stop it from finishing a regen and also they cannot test the part when you send it back due to federal regulations

[HK Trucking]

With Volvo though, there is a pattern here,,, first they dismantled WHITE trucks, then they went thru AUTOCAR and what you see today as a VHD model is really an autocar/volvo combined truck, then they went after the big gun for construction market share in north america --- MACK.... who is next? very sad state of affairs in all this.

Lets not forget Clark/Michigan front end loaders, Akerman excavators, and Champion road graders, all of which were excellent machines, and were purchased and "assimilated" by V*lv*.

[1970Rmodel]

CRAP

I suspect that when Macks market share gets low enough Volvo will dump them like they did to many other companies.

[1970Rmodel]

Lets not forget Clark/Michigan front end loaders, Akerman excavators, and Champion road graders, all of which were excellent machines, and were purchased and "assimilated" by V*lv*.

Its in god's hands now, only he can stop this predator.

But I would love to know that if your business plan is to "aquire, integrate, synergize and consolidate", what happens when it gets down to the last TWO ????

[Rob]

I'm really surprised Volvo hasn't learned from the mistakes White made after the war. Remember all the truck marques they swallowed up and run into oblivion, (Autocar, Western Star, GMC) etc. Exponential growth is not always the best path to proceed upon.

This could be a case of history repeating itself. It's all about profit, and satisfying stockholders which is comical. Stockholders in a corporation usually don't give a shit about the product, history, nor operations as long as they make profit on their investment monies. If they lose monies, or do not see profit, then monies or investments are moved to another venue that seems brighter at the time.

No pride in quality, or loyalty to a product manufacturer any longer.

I have a couple of new gensets powered by Volvo 13, and 16ltr engines and they are just as reliable as any John Deere, Detroit Diesel, or the like produced diesel engines. These are all purchased on contract so it is definately not loyalty, reliability, or ready spares availability driven. They all have the same manufacturer building the alternators, it's just whatever engine manufacturer submits the low bid for their engine is installed. Not my way of doing things and probably not like most end users would operate by. Look at trucking companies such as Yellow or any of the larger ones out there. They have a mixture of power units all due to contract pricings. The terminal in Morton, IL gets six new tractors and they will be one brand, the next lot arrives from a different manufacturer.

Everybody is struggling with this garbage mandated by the govenment as far as emmisions. Even the government is fighting amongst themselves with it. This itself is funny as the government isn't even exempt from itself. Thanks to the american taxpayer this type of garbage can exist because they pay for it.

Rob

[HK Trucking]

But I would love to know that if your business plan is to "aquire, integrate, synergize and consolidate", what happens when it gets down to the last TWO ????

At that point, "Corporate Masturbation" will occur.

They'll have no one left to screw, so they'll start screwing themselves.

.

[bts-4120]

I wouldn't worry to much about the refuse industry its looking like they are going to be running everything on Landfill gas (Methane) it burns clean and its free (I would have converted years ago you can't beat free fuel) I've heard some of the coal mine's have there trucks running on it with good sucess

[cgallamore]

you guy's sure know how to ruin the day for a small time owner operator, that loves mack trucks.

[Gambi80]

you guy's sure know how to ruin the day for a small time owner operator, that loves mack trucks.

Yea I'll drink to that. Good thing my equipment is from the last millenium.

[fjh]

you guy's sure know how to ruin the day for a small time owner operator, that loves mack trucks.

Its Unfotunate but true !You won't likly be buying another truck Charlie!You think you have had down time with your old truck just wait a year or two!

watch and listen!the trucks built today are geared to fleets!