This Is Turning Into A Bigger Project Than Anticipated...

[RowdyRebel]

So of course I SHOULD have got started yesterday....maybe someday I'll learn to quit procrastinating.

Anyway, went out this afternoon to swap some tires around and put new brakes on the drives. The inside tires are pretty well shot from the problems I was having with these danged budd wheels 'til I got that all figgered out. So, about a month ago now, I bought 4 used tires to put across the rear axle (where if they blow, they are the least likely to damage anything on my truck), and move the outside wheels from the rear axle to the inside of the front axle. Then, next week Monday when my steers come back after being capped (so I have spares), I can drop the 4 inside tires off to get capped...then when I get them back, they'll go on the front and those can be sent in for caps. I prefer to run virgins...just can't afford 'em right now. Makes me glad I bought good tires last time I needed 'em, though.

So I get started on the left rear. The outside wheel came off easy enough, but my little 3/4" impact gun just wouldn't budge 9 of the 10 barrel nuts holding that inside wheel on there. I got my 3/4" breaker bar and slipped a 30" cheater bar that I carry in my side box over the end of the breaker bar. I kinda figgered I wouldn't be able to budge it...so I got to thinking. I looked at the 1500# ATV jack in the corner of the garage...just seemed like it would be awkward (if I could even get it positioned where I'd need it). Of course the truck was propped up on my 20 ton bottle jack, so that was a no-go. That's when I spotted the 2-ton engine hoist I got from my grandpa's garage...it had potential. So, I move a few things out of the way so I can get it out into the driveway where I'm working...it had a chain, so I wrapped the chain around the cheater pipe a few times, positioned the hoist and the breaker bar, placed the chain in the hook at the end of the hoist, and got to jacking. It worked. It broke 'em loose, but now I gotta go to Sears to exchange the breaker bar since I bent the stupid handle. I love Craftsman tools. So I remove the inside wheel and break 'em both down. Now for the fun part...mounting the used tires. I was having a heck of a time setting the bead...took way more ether I usually need, and even then the first one took 3 attempts. The second one went on easy enough, though...I used plenty of ether on it the first time. I pull the brake drum off, and the shoes are easy enough to change. Got everything put back together and checked the time...

Already after 4:00

Did the right rear next...those wheels came off like they were supposed to...nice & easy. Changed the brake shoes while the tires were deflating, then broke 'em down and got to mounting the other 2 used tires. The first one went on fairly easily...got it set on the first attempt. The second one, though, after 4 tries I was out of ether. Dangit. Jump in the F250 and run to town.

Got to Auto Zone at 5:30. They close at 6. Wouldn't have been that big of a deal, as Wal-Mart is 24 hours and was only a couple miles farther up the road. Bought 4 cans of ether...don't want to have to run back to town tonight. Called mom to wish her a happy mudder's day on the way home...talked for about 15 minutes and hung up as I was getting back to the house.

Took me 4 more tries to get that danged bead set on the last used tire...twice, it ALMOST set, and then popped back off after a few seconds. Eventually, I got it though. Put the right rear all back together and contemplated leaving it...but that front right inside needed to come off as it's starting to resemble a racing slick more than a drive tire on the one shoulder.

The front right went flawlessly. Wheels came off, brake shoes were changed, pulled the inside tire off the rim and mounted up the tire that was on the right rear outside to go on that front inside position. I LOVE Michelin tires...effortless when setting the bead. Just stand the tire up, hook up the air line, and it does the rest all by itself.

It was starting to get dark, so I REALLY thought long & hard about doing the front left...with all the trouble I had with the left rear, I wasn't looking forward to it. Besides, that was the slack adjuster that had gone bad, so those brake shoes still have a good bit of meat on 'em still...almost look new...so I really didn't HAVE to change 'em...and of all the inside tires, this one was still usable at 4/32 even though the one that had been on the left rear outside had 6/32 tread and would match the 6/32 on the outside tire that's on the front left better.

What the heck. I got out my work lights and pulled the wheels. They came off flawlessly. I broke down the inside wheel, and again took that rear outside and moved it up to the front inside position. Again...LOVE Michelin tires. Bead set effortlessly. I pulled the drum to do the shoes, and that's when I found my NEXT job

Looks like I'm leaking axle grease from the inner seal on the hub. So, I decided I'm not going to put these new shoes on there just to get 'em trashed with axle grease until I can get the parts to fix it. I put the drum back on, put the wheels on, and came in to grab a bite to eat.

Dang. Already 1/4 to 10. Still gotta grease it and hook back up to the trailer so I can run tomorrow. Guess I better get back to work

wow.

You have posted a message with more emoticons that this board allows. Please reduce the number of emoticons you've added to the message

[Gambi80]

Funny how someone took the time to impliment an emoticon limit...

Anyway, so goes the story with me too. Finally get off my ass around 2 sunday afternoon. I did that a couple weeks ago replacing the charge air cooler...I got all new hoses (but of course, not clamps) thinking I'd have it out and in in an hour......long story short, after breaking 3 of them, I drove all over hell trying to track down 3 of those stupid clamps so I could go on monday morning.

[hatcity]

If it's got tits or tires-it's gonna cost you money.

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AND aggravation

[RowdyRebel]

If it's got tits or tires-it's gonna cost you money.

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AND aggravation

Yup...

I had asked at 2 different Mack dealers where the used tires should go...and got 2 different answers. The used tires are about 1" to 1.5" in circumference larger than the outside tires that were staying on the truck....10/32 to 12/32 vs. 6/32 to 7/32 tread depth. One said to place the used ones on one side, the old ones on the other....the other said to run the used ones on the rear axle, the old ones on the front. I went with the front/rear, thinking this way if I had any problems...if one blew out...it would be least likely to rip off a fender or cause other damage to the truck.

It was OK heading out to the quarry this morning...but once I had a load on, the Truck let me know it wasn't happy.

It was clunking pretty loud...could feel it through the drive line. If I could coast, it would be smooth...but under power, I was praying it would stay together. I limped it up the road, using as little throttle as I could and pulled into the first tire shop I came to and told them I needed the front rights and the left rears swapped...put the used tires on the passenger side (so if I had to mess with 'em, I'd be in the grass instead of on the traffic side) and the old ones on the driver's side. They looked at me like I was nuts...said "In school we were taught to keep left/right the same on each axle"

...yeah. Obviously that don't work on Macks.

An hour and a half later, with my bank account $40 lighter, I was on my way again.

[Gambi80]

Welllllllllllll...had you read this thread http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/index.php?showtopic=12992&st=0 specifically post #6, you would've had that problem by the nads before it happened...

[HK Trucking]

Or post # 3 in this thread:

http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/index.php?showtopic=13491

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[RowdyRebel]

I think I need one of them "honk if parts fall off" bumper stickers.

Went under the truck tonight when I got home to see about maybe adjusting the clutch brake.....

....only to find that there ain't no clutch brake

'splains why it don't like getting into gear

[Gambi80]

I think I need one of them "honk if parts fall off" bumper stickers.

Went under the truck tonight when I got home to see about maybe adjusting the clutch brake.....

....only to find that there ain't no clutch brake

'splains why it don't like getting into gear

I thought you posted up pictures on here quite a while back of your clutch brake falling out or something like that...maybe I'm thinking wrong.

BUT, a question for HK Trucking: the Mack wheel rotation 'policy', does that apply to ALL Mack rears or just Mack rears with the auto power divider? The one I've got is air operated on Mack rears.

[HK Trucking]

I thought you posted up pictures on here quite a while back of your clutch brake falling out or something like that...maybe I'm thinking wrong.

BUT, a question for HK Trucking: the Mack wheel rotation 'policy', does that apply to ALL Mack rears or just Mack rears with the auto power divider? The one I've got is air operated on Mack rears.

Whether it has an air lockout doesn't matter, it's still the same cam & wedge (peanut) type power divider which will clunk if there is too much difference in tire diameter from front drive axle vs. rear drive axle.

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[HK Trucking]

I think I need one of them "honk if parts fall off" bumper stickers.

Went under the truck tonight when I got home to see about maybe adjusting the clutch brake.....

....only to find that there ain't no clutch brake

'splains why it don't like getting into gear

The clutch brake is completely gone, without a trace?

Actually if that's the case you're a lucky man, usually they just come apart in several pieces and then it just sits there dangling on the input shaft but not doing any good, in which case it's time to get out the torch and surgically remove the old clutch brake from the input shaft. Not a fun job, and real easy to burn the input shaft seal if you're not careful.

But, since it's completely gone, I'd suggest just going to your friendly neighborhood truck parts store and getting a 2 piece clutch brake.

No transmission removal necessary, just put it on the input shaft, snap the 2 halves together and adjust the linkage for the proper squeeze.

They also make 2 piece clutch brakes that screw together once you put them on the input shaft, those are a little harder to install, but they also work well, and it's a hell of a lot easier that pulling the transmission and putting it back in.

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[Rob]

The clutch brake is completely gone, without a trace?

Actually if that's the case you're a lucky man, usually they just come apart in several pieces and then it just sits there dangling on the input shaft but not doing any good, in which case it's time to get out the torch and surgically remove the old clutch brake from the input shaft. Not a fun job, and real easy to burn the input shaft seal if you're not careful.

But, since it's completely gone, I'd suggest just going to your friendly neighborhood truck parts store and getting a 2 piece clutch brake.

No transmission removal necessary, just put it on the input shaft, snap the 2 halves together and adjust the linkage for the proper squeeze.

They also make 2 piece clutch brakes that screw together once you put them on the input shaft, those are a little harder to install, but they also work well, and it's a hell of a lot easier that pulling the transmission and putting it back in.

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My limited experience is that I like the "screw together" type rather than the clip type. I've seen the clip type work loose and rattle. I've also seen two types of screw together types. One used recessed Allen head fasteners, the other flat headed screwdriver type fasteners. The Allen head type was more compact but would be difficult to install and tighten without extended reach wrenches. The flat screwdriver type would only require a long #2 straight slot screwdriver.

Rob

[HK Trucking]

My limited experience is that I like the "screw together" type rather than the clip type. I've seen the clip type work loose and rattle. I've also seen two types of screw together types. One used recessed Allen head fasteners, the other flat headed screwdriver type fasteners. The Allen head type was more compact but would be difficult to install and tighten without extended reach wrenches. The flat screwdriver type would only require a long #2 straight slot screwdriver.

Rob

I've used the snap together clutch brakes successfully, never had one "unsnap" while in use.

The ones with the allen screws just require a "allen wrench" type socket and enough extensions to reach up in there and tighten it with a ratchet.

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[Rob]

I've used the snap together clutch brakes successfully, never had one "unsnap" while in use.

The ones with the allen screws just require a "allen wrench" type socket and enough extensions to reach up in there and tighten it with a ratchet.

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Hi Herb, the only snap together one I've been exposed to had loosened and wollered the ears that fit together and was really loose. It gave the truck a metalic "ping" at idle that was difficult to find.

Rob

[RowdyRebel]

I thought you posted up pictures on here quite a while back of your clutch brake falling out or something like that...maybe I'm thinking wrong.

BUT, a question for HK Trucking: the Mack wheel rotation 'policy', does that apply to ALL Mack rears or just Mack rears with the auto power divider? The one I've got is air operated on Mack rears.

That was the throwout bearing that caused me to call the wrecker

Unless I'm not looking where I'm 'sposed ta be looking to see it, it ain't there. I ain't ever looked for it before...but it sure as heck ain't working now, and it ain't where I'm looking for it either. I've only seen 'em off the truck and was rather briefly told how to adjust 'em...thought I'd see if I could figure it out.

I can see the input shaft pretty clearly. When you push down on the clutch, there's a good size piece that slides forward, leaving a small gap about the size of a clutch brake. I would assume the clutch brake should be in there, where it would get pinched as that other piece slides forward to slow/stop the input shaft....but it ain't.

...I could be wrong, though...I'm just guessing.

I know it HAD a 2-piece clutch brake on there...it was replaced a month or two before the throwout bearing took a dump, and it didn't take 'em long to swap out, either. I should have crawled under there then to have a look, but didn't. Oh well...it's a learning experience, right? FWIW, I have the 2180 transmission book...even flipped through the pages, but didn't see anything about the clutch brake. Those books look to be more specific component breakdown/rebuild oriented.

[HK Trucking]

That was the throwout bearing that caused me to call the wrecker

Unless I'm not looking where I'm 'sposed ta be looking to see it, it ain't there. I ain't ever looked for it before...but it sure as heck ain't working now, and it ain't where I'm looking for it either. I've only seen 'em off the truck and was rather briefly told how to adjust 'em...thought I'd see if I could figure it out.

I can see the input shaft pretty clearly. When you push down on the clutch, there's a good size piece that slides forward, leaving a small gap about the size of a clutch brake. I would assume the clutch brake should be in there, where it would get pinched as that other piece slides forward to slow/stop the input shaft....but it ain't.

...I could be wrong, though...I'm just guessing.

I know it HAD a 2-piece clutch brake on there...it was replaced a month or two before the throwout bearing took a dump, and it didn't take 'em long to swap out, either. I should have crawled under there then to have a look, but didn't. Oh well...it's a learning experience, right? FWIW, I have the 2180 transmission book...even flipped through the pages, but didn't see anything about the clutch brake. Those books look to be more specific component breakdown/rebuild oriented.

Was the clutch brake (or pieces of it) laying in the bottom of the housing when you pulled the bottom cover? Or do you run it without the bottom cover?

It sounds from your description like it is definitely not on the shaft.

All those clutch brakes that fit a 2" input shaft with a pull type clutch are pretty much generic, not specific to a T2180.

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[RowdyRebel]

Was the clutch brake (or pieces of it) laying in the bottom of the housing when you pulled the bottom cover? Or do you run it without the bottom cover?

It sounds from your description like it is definitely not on the shaft.

All those clutch brakes that fit a 2" input shaft with a pull type clutch are pretty much generic, not specific to a T2180.

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There has never been a cover on there as long as I've owned it...it was something I asked about when I looked at the truck, and was told that it wasn't necessary...that they usually end up being left off.

[HK Trucking]

There has never been a cover on there as long as I've owned it...it was something I asked about when I looked at the truck, and was told that it wasn't necessary...that they usually end up being left off.

Yeah, I've left 'em off before too, not a big deal, makes it easier to shove a grease gun hose up in there every week to grease the throwout bearing.

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[RowdyRebel]

OK...stopped by Mack today and bought a clutch brake. They had 2 to choose from, but NEITHER was like the one I was shown by the head guy in the company shop. The one he showed me looked real easy to install...wrap it around the shaft, insert 2 rods into the clutch brake, and use them to pinch the clip-on brake together.

Anyway, I had the choice between a Haldex clutch brake for $31 or an Eaton for $32. The Haldex was the kind that had the plastic pin...so even though it was the part number the guy at the shop said to get, he had also said to stay away from the plastic pins. The Eaton has the two allen screws.

The deciding factor in my purchase?

Haldex = made in china.

Eaton = made in USA.

I did my part to keep jobs here.

Anyway, I put it in when I got home...and it works.