Mc Authority Question

[jeffl1107]

Didnt know where to post this, hope it is ok. I am in Southern NJ. Just bought a tri axle dump truck and I want to get the tags for it in the next day or so. But have a question. I have talked to a couple other owner operators in my area. I am thinking of getting apportioned tags to run in NJ PA and Del. vs. getting the Code 11 to just run NJ because I have been offered work in PA. But I am wondering if anyone out there knows if I do get the Apportioned tags to run in multiple states, being a dump truck, do I also have to get an MC Authority? The guys I have asked say, NO, just get your DOT #, go up to DMV and get the Apportioned tags. But when I go online at FMCSA to fill out the questions of what I need, it says I DO need an Authority. I am a For Hire driver, my wife owns the company and I will be driving the truck. DMV is saying since I am not directly employed by any company I might work for, and I will be running for them hauling their materials, sand, stone, asphalt and such, that I have to get the Authority. Does anyone know? Are these other dump drivers wrong when they tell me I dont need it. I dont want to get stopped by DOT and get a huge fine if in fact I do need it. Thanks for any help!

[vision386]

Didnt know where to post this, hope it is ok. I am in Southern NJ. Just bought a tri axle dump truck and I want to get the tags for it in the next day or so. But have a question. I have talked to a couple other owner operators in my area. I am thinking of getting apportioned tags to run in NJ PA and Del. vs. getting the Code 11 to just run NJ because I have been offered work in PA. But I am wondering if anyone out there knows if I do get the Apportioned tags to run in multiple states, being a dump truck, do I also have to get an MC Authority? The guys I have asked say, NO, just get your DOT #, go up to DMV and get the Apportioned tags. But when I go online at FMCSA to fill out the questions of what I need, it says I DO need an Authority. I am a For Hire driver, my wife owns the company and I will be driving the truck. DMV is saying since I am not directly employed by any company I might work for, and I will be running for them hauling their materials, sand, stone, asphalt and such, that I have to get the Authority. Does anyone know? Are these other dump drivers wrong when they tell me I dont need it. I dont want to get stopped by DOT and get a huge fine if in fact I do need it. Thanks for any help!

Being born and raised in jersey,my answer is this,being as you are technically a "for-hire" driver once you are assigned an MC# you are required to have your own authority as a one truck operator.If you were leased to someone you could run under their auth. have you thought about incorperating? that way your wife could apply for the auth. in the companies name,add you as an employee,then you would be exempt from carrying your own auth.....jersey can be a tough place to get all this shit sorted out! believe me when i tell you been there done that! I know jersey DMV sucks,but call the regional service center in deptford,they should be able to get you on the right track...sure hope this is of some help to you....mark

[jeffl1107]

Mark,

You must be a mind reader. That is exactly how we are going to do this. The company we will run truck under is in my wifes name and I would be driving it as an employee. But is there any difference with it the company being owned by my wife. Does she then have to do everything. Only reason I am asking is because the guy I got the truck from has 4 trucks of his own. He is saying, NO, you do not need an MC#. He said just get your DOT number, go to Trenton to the IRP and get your apportioned tags telling them we would be running in NJ and PA. But when I go online to try and get my DOT number, one of the questions is are you a For Hire company. And having to answer yes to this, it tells me I need an MC#. Just seems like a royal mess to get involved in the MC#. Have to pay for the number, have to get a processing agent for BOC-3 filing, have to pay the IRP money, how much I dont know, and who the hell else money. And I heard it can take up to 20 days before my numbers are even approved before I can start running. But if I just go up and get regular tags for NJ only, dont need any of this crap. But being new, I dont want to cut myself off from work, expecially when winter comes around. I dont know what the frig to do.

[jeffl1107]

Oh and the business in her name is an LLC

[bullhusk]

Jeff, It's my understanding that if you haul your own materials you do not need a ICC # or if you lease your truck to a co. you could use there rites but you would have to display there name and ICC# on your truck (leased too). Also if your wife is the owner then apply for A W.B.E. Womens Buss. Ent. Most State work & P.A. work have to hire a % of these Co.s BUTTTT BUTTTT BTTTT THIS IS NEW JERSEY and those rules could have changed .BULLHUSK P.S. If you need A d.o.t. guy email me @ ernie67rt@aol.com i'll get you a #

[hatcity]

Doesn't matter who owns the company, for hire-need authority.

IF you MIGHT be running in PA occassionaly, check about getting temp. permit.

Good advice about the women/minority owned business.

[vision386]

Mark,

You must be a mind reader. That is exactly how we are going to do this. The company we will run truck under is in my wifes name and I would be driving it as an employee. But is there any difference with it the company being owned by my wife. Does she then have to do everything. Only reason I am asking is because the guy I got the truck from has 4 trucks of his own. He is saying, NO, you do not need an MC#. He said just get your DOT number, go to Trenton to the IRP and get your apportioned tags telling them we would be running in NJ and PA. But when I go online to try and get my DOT number, one of the questions is are you a For Hire company. And having to answer yes to this, it tells me I need an MC#. Just seems like a royal mess to get involved in the MC#. Have to pay for the number, have to get a processing agent for BOC-3 filing, have to pay the IRP money, how much I dont know, and who the hell else money. And I heard it can take up to 20 days before my numbers are even approved before I can start running. But if I just go up and get regular tags for NJ only, dont need any of this crap. But being new, I dont want to cut myself off from work, expecially when winter comes around. I dont know what the frig to do.

No,don't let yourself get overwhelmed! plenty of guys do just what you're doing everyday! my situation is a little different from yours,see i run all 48 and canada,with one truck,i am incorperated LLC just like you guys,but i have my own rights and operating auth.it is MUCH easier to do all this if you're incorperated i have to have an MC#/DOT# ernie (BULLHUSK) has you on the right track,may be worthwhile to talk to his guy about getting going.I have a real good guy also,but i called him today and he's not taking any new customers right now.Most guys have a "blanket" type operating auth.covers jersey,del,md,pa,and ny i think its the way to go running a dump in jersey.....things may have changed since i moved,but i cant imagine all that much. I will talk to my guy,see what he says,let you know........mark

[jeffl1107]

Hey guys thanks for all the info. I had to get an authority about 7 years ago when I was running a Toter truck hauling mobile office trailers. But it seems to have changed a little. First, I was told I would have to wait up to 20 days after applying for MC# before I can start running, not good for me. Also, somekind of payments with the IRP, which I dont remember when I did this before. I just dont want to go the easy route with the tags for just Jersey and then in fall or winter be screwed because I cant go to other states for work. Hey Bullhusk, I am going to email you to see what you might be able to do here. I just want to start running.

[vision386]

Hey guys thanks for all the info. I had to get an authority about 7 years ago when I was running a Toter truck hauling mobile office trailers. But it seems to have changed a little. First, I was told I would have to wait up to 20 days after applying for MC# before I can start running, not good for me. Also, somekind of payments with the IRP, which I dont remember when I did this before. I just dont want to go the easy route with the tags for just Jersey and then in fall or winter be screwed because I cant go to other states for work. Hey Bullhusk, I am going to email you to see what you might be able to do here. I just want to start running.

I think thats the best thing to do,sure don't want to give you any wrong info....jersey is a lot tougher for this than most states but i'm sure you'll get it figurered out,talking to someone that does this everyday is the way to get going the fastest...so where are you at in jersey? i know a lot of guys that run dumptrucks in south jersey. i know some guys that work for C harrell,pierson,kenny levari etc.....i'm originally from elmer lived there all my life up to about 2 years ago....mark

[convoyduel]

New Jersey has nothing to do with getting interstate authority, just the plates. You would need Interstate authority to haul across state lines and you will need Intrastate authority for individual states to haul point-to-point within any individual state unless you operate wholly within the commercial zone of each state. I pray for you that you will not have to seek intrastate authority in multiple states. That process is still pretty painful.

Interstate authority is easy enough to get, however it will significantly increase your insurance due to the filing requirements on the part of the insurance company. Progressive, for example, increases rates something like 40% if you have ICC filings. You will also have to have a cargo insurance policy in effect to get your ICC authority, so that's likely another $1000 per year just for that. You will also have to register with a Process Agent for around $300 one time. After you get your cargo, liability and process agent paperwork filed, then your company name is printed in the Federal Register. Once that happens and no one objects (no one does), you're authority will become active. By the way, choose Common Carrier Authority. You don't want Contract Carrier Authority. The Authority filing is around $300 itself.

You will need an IFTA account and have to submit quarterly fuel use reports to IFTA. IFTA is basically no-cost up front, but you will have to keep track of every mile driven by state and route as well as every gallon purchased. No exceptions. You will also have an IRP account when you get your Apportioned plates. As a first time registrant, you will have to identify which states you want and estimate your total mileage for each state. Each year thereafter, your fees will be prorated based on your actual miles ran. Figure around $2000 for an annual Approtioned plate, but it is just based off of percentages of each desired state's plate fees prorated according to your annual mileage splits. IFTA and IRP are usually handled by the same folks at the state level, although a few states are still antiquated. I'm not sure how NJ is. Missouri is a 1-Stop shopping Enhanced CVISN state so everything is available online and it's a heck of a lot simpler.

You will also have to go through the new UCR process. AND, not to be left out, regardless of any of the rest of this, you will need to register and get a USDOT number first and foremost. Everything else will tie back to that USDOT number.

I'm not sure how NJ is, but in MO, if you have Common Carrier Interstate Authority, your truck purchase is tax exempt. That saves a boat load of money, but your authority has to be in-effect when you title it. They check online when you're in the office to make sure it is in effect at that moment and not pending or suspended.

All of this should be in the name of your LLC. You as a driver are irrelevant in this process, other than rating your insurance based on your driving record and credit history. The truck does not have to be "owned" by the LLC, but it has to be "leased" to the entity holding the authority certificate. All insurance policies should be in the name of the LLC and name you and your wife individually as "Additional Insureds"

As for the "other drivers", they are 100% wrong. They might squeek by with just having apportioned plates, but if they are not leased to a company that has authority, they will get zapped pretty hard. When you register for a USDOT number, you get on the radar screen. An audit can occur of operations based on that USDOT number, although audits usually are more common for carriers with authority filings. The state DOT folks will also audit, especially if they get wind of an illegal operation. When they do audit, if they find you are operating without authority where it is required, you will get shut down immediately and slapped with mind numbing fines.

A local dump trucker who ran the southwest metro area like us (bigen might remember him) ran into this in St. Louis back in 2000 and again in 2002. He ran outside of the law for years. They finally shut him down and laid some hefty fines on him. He sold his Macks and I don't think anyone heard from him after that.

[cgallamore]

New Jersey has nothing to do with getting interstate authority, just the plates. You would need Interstate authority to haul across state lines and you will need Intrastate authority for individual states to haul point-to-point within any individual state unless you operate wholly within the commercial zone of each state. I pray for you that you will not have to seek intrastate authority in multiple states. That process is still pretty painful.

Interstate authority is easy enough to get, however it will significantly increase your insurance due to the filing requirements on the part of the insurance company. Progressive, for example, increases rates something like 40% if you have ICC filings. You will also have to have a cargo insurance policy in effect to get your ICC authority, so that's likely another $1000 per year just for that. You will also have to register with a Process Agent for around $300 one time. After you get your cargo, liability and process agent paperwork filed, then your company name is printed in the Federal Register. Once that happens and no one objects (no one does), you're authority will become active. By the way, choose Common Carrier Authority. You don't want Contract Carrier Authority. The Authority filing is around $300 itself.

You will need an IFTA account and have to submit quarterly fuel use reports to IFTA. IFTA is basically no-cost up front, but you will have to keep track of every mile driven by state and route as well as every gallon purchased. No exceptions. You will also have an IRP account when you get your Apportioned plates. As a first time registrant, you will have to identify which states you want and estimate your total mileage for each state. Each year thereafter, your fees will be prorated based on your actual miles ran. Figure around $2000 for an annual Approtioned plate, but it is just based off of percentages of each desired state's plate fees prorated according to your annual mileage splits. IFTA and IRP are usually handled by the same folks at the state level, although a few states are still antiquated. I'm not sure how NJ is. Missouri is a 1-Stop shopping Enhanced CVISN state so everything is available online and it's a heck of a lot simpler.

You will also have to go through the new UCR process. AND, not to be left out, regardless of any of the rest of this, you will need to register and get a USDOT number first and foremost. Everything else will tie back to that USDOT number.

I'm not sure how NJ is, but in MO, if you have Common Carrier Interstate Authority, your truck purchase is tax exempt. That saves a boat load of money, but your authority has to be in-effect when you title it. They check online when you're in the office to make sure it is in effect at that moment and not pending or suspended.

All of this should be in the name of your LLC. You as a driver are irrelevant in this process, other than rating your insurance based on your driving record and credit history. The truck does not have to be "owned" by the LLC, but it has to be "leased" to the entity holding the authority certificate. All insurance policies should be in the name of the LLC and name you and your wife individually as "Additional Insureds"

As for the "other drivers", they are 100% wrong. They might squeek by with just having apportioned plates, but if they are not leased to a company that has authority, they will get zapped pretty hard. When you register for a USDOT number, you get on the radar screen. An audit can occur of operations based on that USDOT number, although audits usually are more common for carriers with authority filings. The state DOT folks will also audit, especially if they get wind of an illegal operation. When they do audit, if they find you are operating without authority where it is required, you will get shut down immediately and slapped with mind numbing fines.

A local dump trucker who ran the southwest metro area like us (bigen might remember him) ran into this in St. Louis back in 2000 and again in 2002. He ran outside of the law for years. They finally shut him down and laid some hefty fines on him. He sold his Macks and I don't think anyone heard from him after that.

and the crazy thing about it, in those day's there was so much work and money for dump trucks there was no excuse for it.

[RowdyRebel]

and the crazy thing about it, in those day's there was so much work and money for dump trucks there was no excuse for it.

That's why ya keep stuff in your wife's name. When the SHTF and the "company" is fined heavily, you act surprised like you had no idea what she was doing behind the scenes, get a divorce because you "just don't know who she is anymore", find a gullible new "sweet young thing" to marry and start another corporation in her name to repeat the process. You are "just an employee of the company", so you get away with it.

It's all good

[Mackmann]

Is the company your wife owns called Evea Gasglow??

[rhasler]

That's why ya keep stuff in your wife's name. When the SHTF and the "company" is fined heavily, you act surprised like you had no idea what she was doing behind the scenes, get a divorce because you "just don't know who she is anymore", find a gullible new "sweet young thing" to marry and start another corporation in her name to repeat the process. You are "just an employee of the company", so you get away with it.

It's all good

It souns like you've been down this road before.

[jzack]

And on top of all that mess, here in Minnesota, a first year DOT audit is mandatory for any newly issued operating authority. Not sure about Jersey though.

[RowdyRebel]

It souns like you've been down this road before.

I might know of a few people who have...

[jeffl1107]

Lost track of this post. Well I am now working but I only got the Commercial tags to run just in Jersey. Probably a very bad decision as I am not staying steady and missing out on alot of Back Loads because of it. So I am thinking of getting the Apportioned soon. But, I have now spoken with 3 different guys that have been in the business for many years and all 3 of them said they dont have an MC Authority. They said just get the Apportioned Tags with your DOT number and that is it. They said they dont have it because all they are running is Jersey and PA. I dont know how they are doing it, but they are. I will have to talk with them more about it but from what I know of, you have to get your Authority if you are running in 2 or more states that the IRP is in effect.

[convoyduel]

Lost track of this post. Well I am now working but I only got the Commercial tags to run just in Jersey. Probably a very bad decision as I am not staying steady and missing out on alot of Back Loads because of it. So I am thinking of getting the Apportioned soon. But, I have now spoken with 3 different guys that have been in the business for many years and all 3 of them said they dont have an MC Authority. They said just get the Apportioned Tags with your DOT number and that is it. They said they dont have it because all they are running is Jersey and PA. I dont know how they are doing it, but they are. I will have to talk with them more about it but from what I know of, you have to get your Authority if you are running in 2 or more states that the IRP is in effect.

Apportioned tags and a USDOT number without Common Carrier Authority is only valid if you are a private fleet hauling your own equipment or product OR if you are hauling an "exempt" commodity. Under the FMCSA ruling, soil, sand and gravel are NOT exempt commodities and therefore would require MC authority. . http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?chunkkey=090163348008ef07

Don't forget that you also need IFTA to cross state lines.

I think you are going to find that the cost of compliance will put you at a severe economic disadvantage. Dirt dobbers and dump truckers in general are among the most flagrant violators of weight and compliance laws, largely because the bar to enter the market is so low. Those that are non-compliant work for less and therefore drive the rates down to a point where compliance can be cost prohibitive. Rates are set by the customer, not the hauler, so when it comes to fuel, paying a driver, making a truck payment, insurance or compliance, you know where the first cut comes. Compounding the problem is that quarries, contractor and other customers look the other way and ask no questions. It's not like they are trusting you with a load of flat screen TV's, its something they just loaded with a Cat 966. They can get more. Dump trucking, for the most part, is a race to the bottom. No one ever got work on an hourly job or took over a material haul with a rate that was higher than the previous guy.