Why Can't We Buy Cabover?

[heavyhauler]

Go ahead and line me up in front of the firing squad, but IMHO the MH was THE finest truck that Mack ever put together. Very well engineered, comfortable, easy to drive and service. Styling ahead of its time- even today it looks like a modern truck.

My '85 had E9500, 9 speed, 208" wheelbase on "soft ride" camelback springs. With my spread axle air-ride trailer loaded right, this truck rode as good or better than my current CX.

Go ahead and shoot me again 'cause I traded my MH for the CX.

Gregg

Gregg:

Any idea where that MH of yours is now? Where was it traded and approximately when?

Regards,

John

[Underdog]

Gregg:

Any idea where that MH of yours is now? Where was it traded and approximately when?

Regards,

John

Sorry to say John, I traded the MH at Allentown Mack in 9/2000 and it went overseas to Africa from there. Long gone. If it was still around it would be back in my driveway by now. I do believe the twin to it (one serial# off) is still in use around Schuylkill County, PA. I have seen that one in at Blue Mt. Mack several times over the years for service.

Gregg

[Svin]

What do you think about the Orkdal truck?

http://www.berglitruckstop.no/viewtopic.php?t=6605&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=285

[Rob]

What do you think about the Orkdal truck?

http://www.berglitru...r=asc&start=285

I like the one with the banner "Bred Last". Musta been out of ideas and bread together a sexual enuendo, or act, and a cabover truck with this being the offspring.

Maybe it's a stepchild?

Rob

[james j neiweem]

Under dog

I remember that MH on the Allentown Mack website. Long wheelbase silver red frame E-9. I think they were asking approx 12500.

One of my favorite Mack memories. Can't believe it went to Africa. Couldn't buy it then. Would buy it now. I can see why you would want that back. With the long wheel base I bet that road like a dream.

[roger c]

HI To All, I found this site by accident while looking for truck info and Im really surprised by the amount of drivers who prefer bonneted trucks, and also many seem to think they are safer in accidents. Please allow me to give you my opinion, no insults or malicious intent Ive driven trucks for many years throughout Europe and Scandinavia. Cabovers verses  bonnet trucks. Because in the US you have much,much more space than Europe its easier for you. In Europe its just not practical to use trucks with a bonnet/hood.  I have driven both I found in the area of comfort , ride, there was a better ride in the cabovers, Let me try to explain why. In European trucks we have for many years been on air suspension throughout the rig, springs are jurassic. Air Sus. gives a better ride and less damage to the road surfaces, it also comes in very handy when on "Dock levellers". The second important item is length of chassis and where the coupling/pin , we call "Fifth wheel" is positioned.Your trucks seem to have very long wheel base with a space between the rear of the cab and front of the trailer, enough space to hold a dance. Its bad for two reasons, fuel consumption and ride. The more space, the greater the "Air Oscillation" plus your pressing down at the rear, putting more weight on the rear axles and lifting the front axle, all this gives you a bad ride. We in Europe have more restrictions in area available this is why our trucks have a tighter turning circle than US trucks, our mirrors are convex hence we have better rear and side vision, plus now we have nearside mirrors that the glass came swing in or out at the touch of a switch, its handy. Our windows are larger too I think. European safety control is very high, "Health and Safety" we call it, in the work place is High and Stringent. If you look at European trucks you will see on the tractors we have three axles, the rear axle is your drive, the other two both steer plus the middle one lifts up clear of the road when running empty or in snow to give more traction. Im sure many ex US Forces drivers station in Germany will be aware of the big differences in the trucks. The American trucks are very "Photogenic" hence the worldwde interest, I was in Italy many years ago taking a break, upon my return to my truck I found parked next to me a White Freightliner, it was a big surprise to me in reality they were much smaller, at this time the tyres were smaller size as were the wheel studs. Any questions you may have well I will be pleased to answer. Last, to the guys that think your safer in a bonnet truck, hahaha You should not be thinking about accidents and how you will fare, "Have more confidence in your ability to drive safely , with responsibility towards other road users at all times. If you think this way would you refuse to fly on a jet with only two engines? if so and your flying to Europe or Japan you best get the Bus" Have a great day. Roger

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Good points, Roger- Thanks for detailing some of the reasons this Yank prefers a cabover!

[wingman]

I drove a Mercedes w/ V-8 Diesel and 12sp trans while in Air Force in Germany. They were cabovers and drove very nice. The only US cabovers that I have driven that rode decent were Macks, both F model and Mh613. The MH613 had air ride suspension and 4 bags on the cab. It moved around a lot like the cab swaying back and forth, but rode beautifully. Probably the biggest reason cabovers have gone away in the US is length restrictions have eased somewhat, and insurance. In an accident the driver (the 1st one on the accident scene) doesn't fare to well !

[Underdog]

Some of us still enjoy cabovers! For reasons you describe, Roger and more. My first MH went to Africa, and I really don't want another V8, so I'll try my luck with Ol'Blue here. Fresh paint over the weekend. Almost ready for the road. E6 350, Roadranger 10, Neway air ride. Should get the job done.
 

[Outbehindthebarn]

My only complaint with the cabover was entry.... felt like a window washer scaling a skyscraper getting into my MH.

[roger c]

On 2010-12-22 at 0:40 PM, rw613 said:

i got 1 and love it 91 mh all air ride v8 500 i wouldnt trade it for 10 peterbilts

Now whats not to like about this truck, its a very attractive truck. This talk of cabovers being less safe, you guys that favour this idea, fine, you ever think that you have a  great lump of engine block in front of you to come crashing back into your lower body? bonnet, mudguards crumpling up to alter, re design your facial looks? Its  pot luck how anyone fares in any vehicle accident regardless of your style of truck. 

[Underdog]

4 hours ago, roger c said:

Now whats not to like about this truck, its a very attractive truck. This talk of cabovers being less safe, you guys that favour this idea, fine, you ever think that you have a  great lump of engine block in front of you to come crashing back into your lower body? bonnet, mudguards crumpling up to alter, re design your facial looks? Its  pot luck how anyone fares in any vehicle accident regardless of your style of truck. 

At least with a cabover, you'll be the first one to the scene of the accident!

[ws721]

People ask me all the time why I drive a COE. I hear "they ride bad" or "youre the first one at the scene" etc... Well for those of you who say they ride hard, come take a ride in my 83 Cruiseliner or my 93 IH 9670.  Both have air ride and air ride cabs. Both ride better than my friends 379 48" bunk on airtrac and my own 97 IH 9300 51" Pro sleeper on IH air ride. That's the truth. Don't believe me? Come take a ride with me.  Yes I have to get dressed laying down. That's not fun. But, I always get a thumbs up or a cool comment on the CB. Makes it all worth while for me.  If Mack had made an MH in a Double bunk I believe they would have sold a lot more of em.    Visit my website sometime if you like Cabovers.  Or if ya don't.

[Underdog]

My first MH had 210" wb on camelback, and it rode nice with an air ride trailer. I am looking forward to putting my current truck on the road, 185" wb on Neway air should ride like a dream!

[BC Mack]

When I considered buying a semi just as a personal truck my co-workers thought I was mad when searching for a cab-over, same expressions as above were given for discomfort and instant death...lol...

I was used to them coming from the UK, a two axle F88 was my personal fave back then, and I never got used to driving half way back in the truck when I went to work for Mack after I got to Canada in 1980, couldn't see a thing in the flat mirrors, I like my panoramic view from my cabover.. and easier to work on too..!!

so, after looking at a few different rigs I chose the MH and the best condition one just happened to be a local V8-500 example.

the more I drive it and the more research I do into the design of the Glas cab I just can't believe that the industry just walked away from this technology... Volvo Sweden set the benchmark for cab safety and I witnessed a few F88's that were near destroyed, but the drivers walked away, so, a combination of Glas cab and the modern euro safety cell that new cabovers have in the eu should satisfy the negativity that exists in the US today.... pop riveted alum never made me feel safe either..!!

as for ride comfort, my MH exceeded my expectations, I was ready for a rough ride bob-tailing to shows but with corrected tire pressures and the awareness of the "feel" of an air supported cab.

for commercial operation today?... well, reversing a B-train is easier... but that's a Canuck and Aussie thing..!!! 

BC Mack

[roger c]

20 hours ago, Underdog said:

At least with a cabover, you'll be the first one to the scene of the accident!

you ever thought about a career change, on stage!  if you go first class you could get a "Fly By" or "Fly Over" One time I was parked for overnight stop, its dark and Im about to go to bed when a car reverses , parks in front of my truck , one guy in the car, then a big merc. car arrives, lady driver. the guy slips into the ladies car, not long before they start to get close. I did not perv. but flash my lights, lit the pair of em up, ha he shot out her car,she drove off, he Thanked me and left. You dont get to see these incidents in a hooded truck The pics Ive posted of my trucks are taken throughout Europe with various trailers. The products carried are all food in solids or liquids mainly chocolate and fruit juices. The tanks are all fitted with independent heat systems, some on the juice had fridge units as well as heat. For those of you that may ask, the fridge trailers turn fine without hitting the cab, the two points or three you must be aware of when reversing the rear axle swings out a way, when turning tight there is a overhang of the front corners with the trailer, when coupling up to the fridges you have to take the weight of the trailer and stop, climb on the back, connect the electric and air lines then carry on coupling up till the jaws hold the pin. As you can see there is only about 6/8 inches when fully coupled space between cab and fridge unit. This is to improve aerodynamics, cut down air turbulence, drag, this is all part of better fuel consumption . The axle configuration  of the entire truck and trailer is to obtain maximum weight distribution for axle weights, wear and tare of tyres plus turning circle again reducing tyre scrub, notice the super single tyres on the trailer, all trucks throughout Europe operate with these, again improves fuel returns, wear and tare they also do less damage to road surfaces, price wise there cheaper than two tandem tyres. Any questions I will be pleased to answer. I also had two hooded Scanias but have lost the pics, they were called Scania T cabs if you look on the net you will get pics. They are not produced/built now. Rogerc

Edited June 7, 2017 by roger c

[roger c]

Again another great looking truck. As your from the UK as I am, 40yrs on the road. My last truck before retirement was a Scania Topliner 480. The cabs now have flat floors as the last 3 Topliner models they had 4 inches of engine hump, the first topliners had the top bunk at the front of the cab set above your head it gave you a lot wider bed, the only problem was if you were a big guy , no, not fat, just big you had trouble turning over. Then they re-designed the layout putting it above the bottom bunk and everything was "Tickety Boo" Talking about the "88s" I had 2 but at the time the 11o-111 s were far better for space in my opinion, Your right about the Alum. pop rivets remember what we in the UK would call em....Heinz beans tins! lol. Ive often thought why the chassis lenth is so long with the fifth wheel so far back too, maybe you can tell the answer.

[roger c]

2 hours ago, roger c said:

you ever thought about a career change, on stage!  if you go first class you could get a "Fly By" or "Fly Over" One time I was parked for overnight stop, its dark and Im about to go to bed when a car reverses , parks in front of my truck , one guy in the car, then a big merc. car arrives, lady driver. the guy slips into the ladies car, not long before they start to get close. I did not perv. but flash my lights, lit the pair of em up, ha he shot out her car,she drove off, he Thanked me and left. You dont get to see these incidents in a hooded truck

 

[roger c]

23 hours ago, roger c said:

 

 

[BC Mack]

20 hours ago, roger c said:

Again another great looking truck. As your from the UK as I am, 40yrs on the road. My last truck before retirement was a Scania Topliner 480. The cabs now have flat floors as the last 3 Topliner models they had 4 inches of engine hump, the first topliners had the top bunk at the front of the cab set above your head it gave you a lot wider bed, the only problem was if you were a big guy , no, not fat, just big you had trouble turning over. Then they re-designed the layout putting it above the bottom bunk and everything was "Tickety Boo" Talking about the "88s" I had 2 but at the time the 11o-111 s were far better for space in my opinion, Your right about the Alum. pop rivets remember what we in the UK would call em....Heinz beans tins! lol. Ive often thought why the chassis lenth is so long with the fifth wheel so far back too, maybe you can tell the answer.

I left the UK just as we got our F10's so a lot of progress has happened since those days... took a brand new one out for a road test with a new 40ft TIR tilt around London with HGV-L plates on it as a laugh, I nearly caused many accidents with lorry drivers in old Atky's and ERF's nearly falling out of their cabs in disbelief, always a prank at our shop... LOL

I worked for Rylands in Hendon, ran the maintenance for 'Fleet Hire'... other than the Mack F models of OHS turning up to pick up diffs for their Sed-Ak 400's and our demo White Road Commander 2 (Ryland Group was the only importer at that time) I never got to see many yank-tanks.... the RC2 was not liked by our customers, the Cat engine liked to drink lots of fuel compared to the Volvo at the same weight and was a rough ride.... and more about pop rivets, I drove a series 3 Land Rover and they folded so easy in a crash.

I know of no technical reason why US truckers prefer a long distance between cab and trailer, maybe because they can!!!... however, front brakes were optional for many years, fuel was cheap and only airplanes had "aerodynamics"... I'm sure the other veterans on BMT will chime in here, I try not to upset the natives by blabbing on about my UK memories.. LOL

are you also on TruckNet UK Old Time Lorries..???

cheers

BC Mack

 

[roger c]

F10, I got the first one on the road in the city Im from, came out of a Seddon,220cummins, it took along time to come to terms with the F10 that model jumped 20yrs into the future. At the time there were no demos for weeks drivers were knocking the door, it was so bad I would not stop on services! I had it all over again with a Scania Tcab. the first 3 Tcabs into the UK, one was a day cab I believe, it went to Scotland, the other two (sleepers) came to Atchison Topeka, these three Tcabs were for two years the only ones on the road in the Uk, the office complained about calls to see em, sit in em, even use em for "Weddings" there were as many women interested in them as men. They were LHD. the problems you could have getting on ferries, if the crew wanted you up along side in the wings and it was 3/4 full you could not get the trl. straight, trying to explain to french crews, well they understood after you have reversed off to go on last and the sailing was now delayed! you needed much more lenth to travel in order to get it straight. Happy days. Trucknet. my names on the MAT forum pages, I drove for them on the international side for 19yrs. A fantastic employer!  Another memory I had a Bedford V8 detroit full width cab, cab rubbish, but the power it was better than the 290s plus the sound was music...I was young then. Are you a owner/driver for hire and reward or your trucks a hobby? Im not fixated with American trucks just interested as to how the americans work and operate within the road transport industry in the US/Canada. I worked with a guy who had relations just inside Canada, he spent years driving there splitting the year between the UK and Canada, he used to give us the low down if you ask. Im very aware about making waves, but in a lot of ways they seemed behind, unlimited driving hours, a lot of "Hand Ball"  unit only to pick trailers up travelling miles, if the wheels dont turn you dont earn.  Hence the interest now Im retired, as any driver will tell you, when doing it you dont have time for anything else, too busy trying to earn enough to put "Butter on the Bread" Not to you but to any American drivers reading this I am not "Extracting the Urine" its simply a genuine interest. If you prefer drop me you email add. Regards,Roger

[BC Mack]

Roger,

Seddon to an F10.... like from a horse and cart to a spaceship..!!!!

of all the forums I'm on I have to say this BMT crowd is top notch... none of the flaming you see elsewhere, great info, helpful and very good with the tech stuff too... and they are die-hard Mack guys ..!!!

I'm just a hobbyist now, never did much driving so can't get into stories, but if you want these guys to give you a history of trucks in north america I'm sure they'll oblige, just ask or go through the old postings, but as elsewhere, the industry has changed dramatically over the years and wages are poor in general, I can earn far more $$$ on the spanners for a bus company and I'm in my own bed every night.. LOL

BC Mack

[Lmackattack]

23 hours ago, roger c said:

 Ive often thought why the chassis lenth is so long with the fifth wheel so far back too, maybe you can tell the answer.

 Many Truck owners just like the look of extra frame rail between truck and trailer. its not practical by any means but it is a trend. they also tend to ride better when the rear wheels are further away from the cab. Or a truck was set up with a long WB to haul special loads that would over hang the nose of the trailer. Many state have different laws regarding overall length and weight distribution. 5th wheel location can be moved to help accommodate these laws. its vary rare that you will find a 5th wheel slid all the way back.   In recent years some states have started to copy other state laws and make things a little more consistent. most trailers I have pulled we just kept the 5th wheel about 6" ahead of center of the tandems. this was a safe bet to keep the front axel weight at or below the common 12,000 lbs weight limit. Most Van trailers also have tandems that can slide for and aft. again some states have different laws regarding how far back the trailer tandems can be based on the weight of the truck. this is why you might see some van trailers with the tandems at different locations. its also why many flat bed trailers have spread tandems. No real simple way to try to explan it all as each state just about has a different  law regarding weight or length. East coast states had more length and weight restrictions. It was common to find short WB trucks out east and long WB trucks out west. You can also see the trend with sleepers back in the day. East coast were small and west coast they were larger.

[Timmyb]

Dunno about the USA, but down under we use a cab over when we have 1, length restrictions or 2, tight access.

Vision is miles better in a cab over.

Cabovers tend to weigh a bit less. Example, my 130t rated cabover weighs 10.5t. My mate's 130t rated T909 weighs 13t. 

Resale on a cab over is a lot less down here, so 2nd hand ones are lots cheaper. 

And finally, if there were demand for a COE in the USA, I bet they would start making them. No point making something not many people want.

 

[roger c]

42 minutes ago, Lmackattack said:

 Many Truck owners just like the look of extra frame rail between truck and trailer. its not practical by any means but it is a trend. they also tend to ride better when the rear wheels are further away from the cab. Or a truck was set up with a long WB to haul special loads that would over hang the nose of the trailer. Many state have different laws regarding overall length and weight distribution. 5th wheel location can be moved to help accommodate these laws. its vary rare that you will find a 5th wheel slid all the way back.   In recent years some states have started to copy other state laws and make things a little more consistent. most trailers I have pulled we just kept the 5th wheel about 6" ahead of center of the tandems. this was a safe bet to keep the front axel weight at or below the common 12,000 lbs weight limit. Most Van trailers also have tandems that can slide for and aft. again some states have different laws regarding how far back the trailer tandems can be based on the weight of the truck. this is why you might see some van trailers with the tandems at different locations. its also why many flat bed trailers have spread tandems. No real simple way to try to explan it all as each state just about has a different  law regarding weight or length. East coast states had more length and weight restrictions. It was common to find short WB trucks out east and long WB trucks out west. You can also see the trend with sleepers back in the day. East coast were small and west coast they were larger.

Thanks for the reply, If I have it right, example, on a run from Florida  up to the northwest, I can expect to have to move  the trailers axles to be within the laws  of the state Im about to enter regarding weight distribution? If this is the case why oh why has the transport industry country wide demanded uniformity across all states? Surely time,money and convenience to all would be beneficial to all including vehicle/trailer makers. Standardization, everyone then knows the rules.