Spindle - Bearing Seized

[TheBulldogExpress]

On our 1990 Mack CH613 (12k front axle) the bearing seized to the spindle. Not sure how common this is lol, but I've never had to deal with it. The hub was full of lube. A mechanic in Alabama heated and hit the seized bearings off the spindle and then too the spindle off because he thought it wasn't safe to put new bearings on. Well strait to the point unless you guys want to hear the hole story or other details...we ended up putting a spindle on from a junkyard that had the brakes, hub, ect all on it. It appears to be for a heavier front end but it worked and got us home from rural Alabama to Connecticut. We don't want to have the different brakes on one side, and the arm going from the tie rod end to the spindle is a different angle and size. We talked to another mechanic up here and he said the old spindle isn't that banged up from being seized to the bearing as we thought but were still not too sure. Heres a picture of the spindle, the only etched part is on that 3 inch section after the threads, it's not raised though and it not too deep, the rest of the spindle is fine. It never really got that hot with the bearing, we pulled over immediatly. Any help appreciated. If you have ever had a bearing fail, Ide love to hear the story lol.

[Rob]

On our 1990 Mack CH613 (12k front axle) the bearing seized to the spindle. Not sure how common this is lol, but I've never had to deal with it. The hub was full of lube. A mechanic in Alabama heated and hit the seized bearings off the spindle and then too the spindle off because he thought it wasn't safe to put new bearings on. Well strait to the point unless you guys want to hear the hole story or other details...we ended up putting a spindle on from a junkyard that had the brakes, hub, ect all on it. It appears to be for a heavier front end but it worked and got us home from rural Alabama to Connecticut. We don't want to have the different brakes on one side, and the arm going from the tie rod end to the spindle is a different angle and size. We talked to another mechanic up here and he said the old spindle isn't that banged up from being seized to the bearing as we thought but were still not too sure. Heres a picture of the spindle, the only etched part is on that 3 inch section after the threads, it's not raised though and it not too deep, the rest of the spindle is fine. It never really got that hot with the bearing, we pulled over immediatly. Any help appreciated. If you have ever had a bearing fail, Ide love to hear the story lol.

I think the mechanic that made the repairs to your truck was prudent in his judgement by replacing the spindle. These things are heat treated and with the spindle turning blue, the heat treat is destroyed. It could either be very hard, or very soft, (typically soft) and subject to bending, or snapping off much easier than design criteria demands.

From a repair standpoint if it would have been in my shop I'd have refused the job had the owner not been willing to install another spindle. I would not have however installed differing sized brakes of any fashion, even as a temporary repair. The liability exposure just does not warrant it. While you yourself may not have been willing to sue in an accident, the lawyers do not, and will not see it that way.

Glad to hear you made it home without further adieu.

Rob

[rhasler]

I think the mechanic that made the repairs to your truck was prudent in his judgement by replacing the spindle. These things are heat treated and with the spindle turning blue, the heat treat is destroyed. It could either be very hard, or very soft, (typically soft) and subject to bending, or snapping off much easier than design criteria demands.

From a repair standpoint if it would have been in my shop I'd have refused the job had the owner not been willing to install another spindle. I would not have however installed differing sized brakes of any fashion, even as a temporary repair. The liability exposure just does not warrant it. While you yourself may not have been willing to sue in an accident, the lawyers do not, and will not see it that way.

Glad to hear you made it home without further adieu.

Rob

Mack had a saftey campaign a few years back in which the steer axle wheel bearings that were installed at the factory had the incorrect taper which resulted in the bearings not being seated against the back of the spindle (the same thing can happen when installing a HM516449C inner rear wheel bearing on a stamped steel rear axle housing instead of an HM516449A). The bearing had to be heated, in some cases, for it to be removed. Their instruction was to "hot spot" the bearing race after cutting the cage off, followed by tapping the race in order to remove it. Later model spindles feature a heat shrink wear ring for the wheel seal to ride on. It must be heated both to remove and install it. That being said, if the mechanic that heated the parts, assuming he was well versed in what he was doing, thought it was unusable it is probably best to follow his judgement. After viewing your photos the threads on the spindle appear to be damaged (note the flat spots and chipped crests on the threads). In regards to the replacement spindle you should check that the steering lever for the draglink is the same as the one from the original spindle. Slight variations in angle, length, etc. can cause a wide range of problems in the steering system. A draglink that is too long or too short can cause the steering gear to be off center, resulting in a pull to one side as the gear attempts to return to it's high point, tire wear, and erratic steering. If you notice that after installing the new spindle that the steering wheel is now cocked one direction or the other that is an indictation that something is amiss. Brakes and steering are the two things that you must maintain before all others, they are not something to short cut.

[theakerstwo]

I will add to what Rob said that if you maniflux the spindle that may also tell you what needs to be done with it. I have maniflux alot of spindles and like one front end guy said to me only a fool would use a known crack spindle or axle.I started maxifluxing spindles years ago when doing king pins and replace some but most owners cant under stand the danger of this. So we always put on the invoice and had the driver or owner to sign if he wanted a bad spindle under him.This day and time guys will do any thing for money including suing your ass for nothen when its their own fault.One o/o sued freighliner for letting him make a stupid decision to up rate his power over the trans rating.His defents was they should have known that he did not know what he was asking.This did go to court but was over turned in freightliners fa.vor

[rhasler]

So we always put on the invoice and had the driver or owner to sign if he wanted a bad spindle under him.

Good idea.

[TheBulldogExpress]

Yeah I understand all of you. I've helped out at auto shops and I think the spindle is bad. My father who owns the truck keeps intending on using it and I wanted to just see what other people thought. As a mechanic I would never let it leave the shop either with a spindle like this. I know what places go through with a holes today lol. We only use the Mack for camping and money is tight, probably the only reason he keeps intending to use it. I'm going to change over the steering lever to fix the angle the tie rod is at because it isnt correct, the tires are wearing a bit. We keep adjusting the toe and it never seems to correct it self. The truck isn't worked, so it won't be in danger for now untill its fixed. I hope to find a used spindle and just put new bearings and races on it, but thats a hard find here in Connecticut. If anyone knows a good place in PA or NY with salvage trucks let me know lol. Mack wants $1700 for a new one = /

Thanks again for the opinions and help, Ill make sure it ain't used again!

Also, if I correct the steering lever so that the tie rod sits at the correct level again, I should be ok with the different spindle/hub. It's the same size and everything, but It must be from a different year or a heavier rated front end. The only difference will be the brakes. The fit correctly, its just that since its a different spindle/hub, the brakes are for that model and not mine. I would think thats fine to do, but just asking incase im missing something.

Edited June 23, 2010 by TheBulldogExpress

[Rob]

Yeah I understand all of you. I've helped out at auto shops and I think the spindle is bad. My father who owns the truck keeps intending on using it and I wanted to just see what other people thought. As a mechanic I would never let it leave the shop either with a spindle like this. I know what places go through with a holes today lol. We only use the Mack for camping and money is tight, probably the only reason he keeps intending to use it. I'm going to change over the arm from the tie rod end to the spindle to fix the angle the tie rod is at because it isnt correct, the tires are wearing a bit. We keep adjusting the toe and it never seems to correct it self. The truck isn't worked, so it won't be in danger for now untill its fixed. I hope to find a used spindle and just put new bearings and races on it, but thats a hard find here in Connecticut. If anyone knows a good place in PA or NY with salvage trucks let me know lol. Mack wants $1700 for a new one = /

Thanks again for the opinions and help, Ill make sure it ain't used again!

There are a few yards around here if you need me to call around. I would need to know the vin of the truck and assuming the steer axle is original to the truck I could find out what you need in used parts. I could also give you some contact information as most will ship and you could handle this direct.

Help you if I can.

Good looking unit. It looks well cared for.

Rob

[TheBulldogExpress]

There are a few yards around here if you need me to call around. I would need to know the vin of the truck and assuming the steer axle is original to the truck I could find out what you need in used parts. I could also give you some contact information as most will ship and you could handle this direct.

Help you if I can.

Good looking unit. It looks well cared for.

Rob

I appreciate it Rob. We might leave the current spindle on depending on how the lever arm effects the tire wear. If for some reason it still wears bad we will begin the hunt for the correct spindle. Ill let you know if that happens and get you the info. Again, I appreciate the help and your comment on our rig.

[rhasler]

Toe in on your axle should be .06" +/- .03" (1/16" +/- 1/32"), should be set closer to 0 if lightly loaded. Concerning your axle/spindle/steering levers, you may have a spindle from a Mack 14.6K installed in place of the original 12K spindle. It seems like this is the case as an 18K or 20K spindle uses a larger kingpin. I think the 12K and 14.6K both use the same axle beam with the main difference being that the springs for the 14.6K axle are heavier. I'm not sure if the steering levers for the two axles are the same, if they are not then you should be able to remove the levers from the original spindle and install them to the replacement spindle. Part of your tire wear problem may be associated with the bearing failure that you experienced. A loose or worn bearing will allow the camber on the wheel to change and will result in much the same wear pattern that would be seen with worn kingpins. And by the way, that is quite a fine looking truck especially considering that it appears to have been a standard fleet type of spec when built.

[TheBulldogExpress]

Toe in on your axle should be .06" +/- .03" (1/16" +/- 1/32"), should be set closer to 0 if lightly loaded. Concerning your axle/spindle/steering levers, you may have a spindle from a Mack 14.6K installed in place of the original 12K spindle. It seems like this is the case as an 18K or 20K spindle uses a larger kingpin. I think the 12K and 14.6K both use the same axle beam with the main difference being that the springs for the 14.6K axle are heavier. I'm not sure if the steering levers for the two axles are the same, if they are not then you should be able to remove the levers from the original spindle and install them to the replacement spindle. Part of your tire wear problem may be associated with the bearing failure that you experienced. A loose or worn bearing will allow the camber on the wheel to change and will result in much the same wear pattern that would be seen with worn kingpins. And by the way, that is quite a fine looking truck especially considering that it appears to have been a standard fleet type of spec when built.

Yeah your right on. Were going to change out the lever arms asap since the 14.6k spindle has a different sized, shaped, and angled one, and thanks for the comment.