Lost Pulling Power

[shadow]

First Time Posting.I need help bad.I have a 2003 ch613 w/ a 355/380 hp engine that I haul logs with, 4 months ago while hauling a load of logs I lost power in upper gears. dose good thru lower gears but hit 8th and it just stops pulling and i have to go back to 7th.If climbing a hill hauling 30 tons it will fall to 30 mph.I put it in the shop, they changed charge air cooler, exaust manifold bolt's,, one was broke all new hoses and clamps,lift pump,checked all EUP's and selinoid's,checked turbo has 35 psi boost.Finally after 4 weeks they called and said they had done all they could do , charged me $5,000 and sent me on my way.Still no power so i took it to another shop where i know the mechanic but they are a volvo dealer and not authorized to work on mack so no computer access but he is good and done what he could w/ a borrowed lap top.He said he checked all the obvious things and changed ALL the sensors.Still no power so i put a new ECM on it,still no power During this time I'm not working and spending money /5 weeks. So i parked it and went and bought a peterbilt w/ a 410 caterpillar but still have the mack just sitting in the yard costing $950 a month any heip will be greatly APPRECIATED...

[fjh]

First Time Posting.I need help bad.I have a 2003 ch613 w/ a 355/380 hp engine that I haul logs with, 4 months ago while hauling a load of logs I lost power in upper gears. dose good thru lower gears but hit 8th and it just stops pulling and i have to go back to 7th.If climbing a hill hauling 30 tons it will fall to 30 mph.I put it in the shop, they changed charge air cooler, exaust manifold bolt's,, one was broke all new hoses and clamps,lift pump,checked all EUP's and selinoid's,checked turbo has 35 psi boost.Finally after 4 weeks they called and said they had done all they could do , charged me $5,000 and sent me on my way.Still no power so i took it to another shop where i know the mechanic but they are a volvo dealer and not authorized to work on mack so no computer access but he is good and done what he could w/ a borrowed lap top.He said he checked all the obvious things and changed ALL the sensors.Still no power so i put a new ECM on it,still no power During this time I'm not working and spending money /5 weeks. So i parked it and went and bought a peterbilt w/ a 410 caterpillar but still have the mack just sitting in the yard costing $950 a month any heip will be greatly APPRECIATED...

A little more info please! does the engine smoke black under pulling conditions ? Does the pyro climb in excess? What kind of boost does it make pulling.If you have no smoke then Did anyone think to check the fuel preasure ya need 60 psi or better.

[David]

"charged me $5,000 and sent me on my way"

Was this a Mack dealer. If so, which one?

[Mackpro]

First Time Posting.I need help bad.I have a 2003 ch613 w/ a 355/380 hp engine that I haul logs with, 4 months ago while hauling a load of logs I lost power in upper gears. dose good thru lower gears but hit 8th and it just stops pulling and i have to go back to 7th.If climbing a hill hauling 30 tons it will fall to 30 mph.I put it in the shop, they changed charge air cooler, exaust manifold bolt's,, one was broke all new hoses and clamps,lift pump,checked all EUP's and selinoid's,checked turbo has 35 psi boost.Finally after 4 weeks they called and said they had done all they could do , charged me $5,000 and sent me on my way.Still no power so i took it to another shop where i know the mechanic but they are a volvo dealer and not authorized to work on mack so no computer access but he is good and done what he could w/ a borrowed lap top.He said he checked all the obvious things and changed ALL the sensors.Still no power so i put a new ECM on it,still no power During this time I'm not working and spending money /5 weeks. So i parked it and went and bought a peterbilt w/ a 410 caterpillar but still have the mack just sitting in the yard costing $950 a month any heip will be greatly APPRECIATED...

Your engine is a CCRS style ETECH engine. It is very close to the 427HP CCRS engine ( has same tourque output rating). I posted this awhile back after we bought a fleet of CH's for resale with the 427 CCRS engine, almost every truck had a low power complaint. = Here's a little tip for 427 CCRS engines with low power. We bought a fleet of 2002 CH's with this engine and all were low on boost pressure and power. We changed turbo and injectors, adjusted valves and did everything we could think of and still low turbo boost/ power. I called my buddy at our other Mack location and he said to replaced the injectors with 460P HP (736GB420M3X) ones and call Mack and have them turn on engine datafile 1MS5135. We did this and WOW what a difference, went from 22psi boost to 30 psi and this was after we put the old turbo back on. Just something I thought I would pass on to you guys.

[shadow]

A little more info please! does the engine smoke black under pulling conditions ? Does the pyro climb in excess? What kind of boost does it make pulling.If you have no smoke then Did anyone think to check the fuel preasure ya need 60 psi or better.

No smoke,pyro temp is good,bost is 35 psi under load,fuel pressure is 80 psi Also forgot to add changed injectors and checked fuel lines

[shadow]

"charged me $5,000 and sent me on my way"

Was this a Mack dealer. If so, which one?

Performance mack/kenworth in BEAUMONT TEXAS

[fjh]

No smoke,pyro temp is good,bost is 35 psi under load,fuel pressure is 80 psi Also forgot to add changed injectors and checked fuel lines

I wonder if your wast gate is stuck closed and your going into derate! is the engine fault light coming on? 33 psi is max on a ccrs engine it will drate after that.

[shadow]

I wonder if your wast gate is stuck closed and your going into derate! is the engine fault light coming on? 33 psi is max on a ccrs engine it will drate after that.

TWO DIFFERENT SHOPST CHECKED THE WASTE GATE,HOSES FOR LEAKS ECT.. THE TURBO WAS CHECKED THROUGHY .The boost pressue is about 33 psi it just under the 35 psi mark..I don't think it is going into derate mode Because i can unplug the boost pressure sensor and it will derate and then it loose's power even in lower gears Forgot to tell you tha i have no codes showing

Edited August 8, 2010 by shadow

[shadow]

Updae i sent the new ecm that i bought to jballelectronics and paid $1200 dollars to have it "turned up" to give me more horse power another 1oo hp supposely.I put it on this morning, no difference Don't waste your money on these ecm horse power incress company's it does not work, not for me any way

[fjh]

Updae i sent the new ecm that i bought to jballelectronics and paid $1200 dollars to have it "turned up" to give me more horse power another 1oo hp supposely.I put it on this morning, no difference Don't waste your money on these ecm horse power incress company's it does not work, not for me any way

Bro I can't help but feel were not getting the full story here!

(4 months ago while hauling a load of logs I lost power in upper gears) does this mean what it says!? you lost pulling power ? or it quit lost battery power ?

If you lost pulling power somthing you had but is now gone in the top range Can you xplain the circumstances a bit when and how it happen all at once, during a pull on the same hill, is the boost up or low in this situation, yada yada !.Also what trans do you have!If it is a mack 18 un plug the torque limit switch on the back it may be messing with your mind some ! There is somthing going on here that the puter thinks is ok and I don't know if the guys you been dealing with have checked the peramiters in the puter to make sure all the torque settings and speed settings are opened up turn off or up 100% any derates related to road speed or set them out of reach! The problem you have maybe in the Vehicle ECU not the engine ECU.We can try and send ya the right way here hopfully we can't always fix everything but weel try.

[shadow]

Bro I can't help but feel were not getting the full story here!

(4 months ago while hauling a load of logs I lost power in upper gears) does this mean what it says!? you lost pulling power ? or it quit lost battery power ?

If you lost pulling power somthing you had but is now gone in the top range Can you xplain the circumstances a bit when and how it happen all at once, during a pull on the same hill, is the boost up or low in this situation, yada yada !.Also what trans do you have!If it is a mack 18 un plug the torque limit switch on the back it may be messing with your mind some ! There is somthing going on here that the puter thinks is ok and I don't know if the guys you been dealing with have checked the peramiters in the puter to make sure all the torque settings and speed settings are opened up turn off or up 100% any derates related to road speed or set them out of reach! The problem you have maybe in the Vehicle ECU not the engine ECU.We can try and send ya the right way here hopfully we can't always fix everything but weel try.

I mean just what itn say's i was going down the road and it started losing speed untill it was down to 45 mph, on a hill it all but stops i don't mean the batteries man this is why i posted here,nobody around here can figure it out.I am a pretty good mechanic in my on right ,just not a computer genuis and that is what you have to be to work on a mack. I had one of the best mechanic's in southeast texas work on it after PERFORMANCE MACK TRIED FOR 4 WEEKS but he works at a volvo dealership and dosen't have computer acess but he could check a lot of things and his last guess was the ecm after he did all he could.He even hooked gauges to check fuel pressure boost pressure.pyro tenp fuel temp, air in fuel hooked up a lap top and had another mechanic drive it down the hiway while he checked all he could But PERFORMANCE MACK is a authorized dealer they said that they removed the parameters and short of a overhaul that was all they could do. this truck only has 430,ooo miles on it -- it was running good going down the hiway all at once it stared losing pulling power and that what happened i haven't been able to restore power since. Runs good empty but add even a lite load (20 tons) and it does 45 on flat ground 25 on hills not mountains. hills i never have to down shift this pete i just bought making same runs i made w/ mack..i no it's a stumper that's why i'm here but if you can't help i do thank you for tryingn and your time it had a 10 speed road ranger but it pulled fine for almost a year

Edited August 9, 2010 by shadow

[Mackpro]

No smoke,pyro temp is good,bost is 35 psi under load,fuel pressure is 80 psi Also forgot to add changed injectors and checked fuel lines

I would put it on a Dyno before I bought another part! We have had to do this before to make sure we really had low power. Our sales dept. will sell a guy a used "Ryder" spec truck with a 355/380 and the guy is used to a large CID Cummins 500HP and complaine it has low power when it actually doesn't. With 33-35 psi of boost it should be doing great. I didnt think they put waste-gate turbos on CCRS engines except for the 460 HP. Not to be confused with the ASET engine with the VGT turbos.

[shadow]

I would put it on a Dyno before I bought another part! We have had to do this before to make sure we really had low power. Our sales dept. will sell a guy a used "Ryder" spec truck with a 355/380 and the guy is used to a large CID Cummins 500HP and complaine it has low power when it actually doesn't. With 33-35 psi of boost it should be doing great. I didnt think they put waste-gate turbos on CCRS engines except for the 460 HP. Not to be confused with the ASET engine with the VGT turbos.

The truck ran fine for a year so it had good power then lost it. It is not that i think it should have more it did have more for a year.The way it is now is actually dangerous, i'm afraid somebody will run into the back of it with log's sticking out and i don't even wan't to think about how bad that would be i'm starting to think it may be better and cheaper in the long run just to put another engine in it a cat or cummings definatly not a mack engine i'm done w/ mack they want and do control every aspect of a truck they do not own this i do not like. Performance mack would not even turn up the horse power and this truck is not under warranty I did buy it from (ryder) in houston. We don't have a company with a dyno around here houston maybe, but i'm 40 miles north of beaumont ANYBODY WANT TO BUY A MACK TRUCK..........

[bts-4120]

wonder if they ever thought of checking the air filter, lots of dust in the woods and some new fuel filters, around houston your probley getting more bio blended in with your fuel than you think, rather than replacing ecm's I would have put some oversize injectors in it and max the settings out

[shadow]

wonder if they ever thought of checking the air filter, lots of dust in the woods and some new fuel filters, around houston your probley getting more bio blended in with your fuel than you think, rather than replacing ecm's I would have put some oversize injectors in it and max the settings out

The very first thing i did was to change air and fuel filters at first i thought it was fuel filters that's what it acted like. Looking back i wish i had put oversize injectors in it but the new ones performance put in was the same size that came out of it.But like i said it was running fine until this happened so i didn't consider bigger injectors i thought maybe one or two had gone bad the mechanic at performance mack said that was about all that was left to try. If the computer is not letting enough fuel to the injectors putting bigger ones in it wouldn't do any good The ecm that is inside the cab, what does it control

[rhasler]

This may sound stupid, but has anyone checked the fuel tank, pickup tube, and cap vents? I've seen tampons, fishing bobbers, and even ham sandwiches floating around in fuel tanks causing the same type of problem. I've also seen bent in fuel tanks restrict flow into the pickup tube as well as fractured pickup tubes.

[shadow]

This may sound stupid, but has anyone checked the fuel tank, pickup tube, and cap vents? I've seen tampons, fishing bobbers, and even ham sandwiches floating around in fuel tanks causing the same type of problem. I've also seen bent in fuel tanks restrict flow into the pickup tube as well as fractured pickup tubes.

Doesn't sound stupid at all like you i've seen this to had one that had a hole in it,how it got there is anybody's guess When we were checking fuel system we disconected main feed and run it to 15 gal tank and set it on the back of the truck, same thing still

[fjh]

I mean just what itn say's i was going down the road and it started losing speed untill it was down to 45 mph, on a hill it all but stops i don't mean the batteries man this is why i posted here,nobody around here can figure it out.I am a pretty good mechanic in my on right ,just not a computer genuis and that is what you have to be to work on a mack. I had one of the best mechanic's in southeast texas work on it after PERFORMANCE MACK TRIED FOR 4 WEEKS but he works at a volvo dealership and dosen't have computer acess but he could check a lot of things and his last guess was the ecm after he did all he could.He even hooked gauges to check fuel pressure boost pressure.pyro tenp fuel temp, air in fuel hooked up a lap top and had another mechanic drive it down the hiway while he checked all he could But PERFORMANCE MACK is a authorized dealer they said that they removed the parameters and short of a overhaul that was all they could do. this truck only has 430,ooo miles on it -- it was running good going down the hiway all at once it stared losing pulling power and that what happened i haven't been able to restore power since. Runs good empty but add even a lite load (20 tons) and it does 45 on flat ground 25 on hills not mountains. hills i never have to down shift this pete i just bought making same runs i made w/ mack..i no it's a stumper that's why i'm here but if you can't help i do thank you for tryingn and your time it had a 10 speed road ranger but it pulled fine for almost a year

Sorry wasn't tring to ruffle your feathers just tring to get to the bottom of the problem.

So when your pulling your guts out in say seven of 8th is and as the power is going away does the boost fall off as well?Or does the boost drop as the truck slows,you should see boost hang in till about 1400 and then the boost should fall of some and the pyro should climbif its working right ! Just some observations. My thought here is that under high fuel demand the engine is starving for fuel !In the lower gears your fuel demand is not as high once in the hight gears your using and demanding every bit of fuel.Anyway It sounds like ya had some good gurus looking at it so I doubt I can help ya over the net but for what its worth here is a couple of other thoughts a plugged vent in a fuel tank or a partly pluged fuel line on the suction side of the red fuel filter Bad fuel transfer pump the gears on these pumps have be known to fail and slip on the hub the engine will still run but the fuel preasure will be erattic under load. Don't have much to say other than that!

Sorry for not bein able to help!

[rhasler]

Bad fuel transfer pump the gears on these pumps have be known to fail and slip on the hub the engine will still run but the fuel preasure will be erattic under load. Don't have much to say other than that!

Sorry for not bein able to help!

I have to second the transfer pump question. I know you've installed a new one already, but I have installed new pumps and had the gear on the new pump slip immediately afterwards.

[shadow]

after every thing we have done to the truck mechanicly I firmly belive it is in the electronics and since i have changed the ecm and then had the new turned up to dump more fuel something is telling the ecm not to dump enough fuel or it's one of the other ecm's I do not kknow what this other ecm's control by the way my cruise stopped working after this happened

[rhasler]

after every thing we have done to the truck mechanicly I firmly belive it is in the electronics and since i have changed the ecm and then had the new turned up to dump more fuel something is telling the ecm not to dump enough fuel or it's one of the other ecm's I do not kknow what this other ecm's control by the way my cruise stopped working after this happened

That is a possibility I suppose. Usually the VECU doesn't cause performance problems when it fails so much as it sets fault codes for various items it controls. The VECU is mounted to the panel in front of the passenger seat. The best way to describe its's operation is to think of it as your boss. It tells the other modules on the truck what to do and coordinates their activities, but doesn't have the ability to do their jobs by itself. I can't recall all of the functions it controls, but accelerator pedal control and cruise control are two them. I think torque limit is also one of it's functions.

[fjh]

after every thing we have done to the truck mechanicly I firmly belive it is in the electronics and since i have changed the ecm and then had the new turned up to dump more fuel something is telling the ecm not to dump enough fuel or it's one of the other ecm's I do not kknow what this other ecm's control by the way my cruise stopped working after this happened

I twice found a rock stuck in the inlet elbow of the red fuel filter might be worth looking at Causeing a low power thing Again fluctuating fuel preasure UNDER load!

What is baffling is the boost the boost is right where it should be!

[rhasler]

I twice found a rock stuck in the inlet elbow of the red fuel filter might be worth looking at Causeing a low power thing Again fluctuating fuel preasure UNDER load!

What is baffling is the boost the boost is right where it should be!

That's what's getting me too. What if you take the truck back to Beaumont and tell them you still have the problem and see if they have a test VECU for you to try out? If you just dropped 5,000 dollars with them I would think they would be concerned with getting your truck straightened out.

[shadow]

after every thing we have done to the truck mechanicly I firmly belive it is in the electronics and since i have changed the ecm and then had the new turned up to dump more fuel something is telling the ecm not to dump enough fuel or it's one of the other ecm's I do not kknow what this other ecm's control by the way my cruise stopped working after this happened

Thanks men i do apprricate the info and you taking time to help me.I will keep you posted on the progress.I will try another lift pump

[fjh]

Thanks men i do apprricate the info and you taking time to help me.I will keep you posted on the progress.I will try another lift pump

I'm not an advocate of throwing parts at things I would tee in a preasure gauge at where the fuel enters the block and drive it with a load under the condions this happens and try it, if the fuel pressure drops down below sixty then Check the drain back valve on the block make sure its OK then work thru all the lines and check or replace em .If the fuel preasure does not drop then I duno where to send ya, The test VECU would be a though.(Usually the VECU doesn't cause performance problems when it fails) But if this ecu sees a torque limit signal it will cut the engine power some what with no code,if the wire to the ecu from the torque limit is worn or rubbed thru it can possibly cause a power complaint ,But your boost would be effected.And this would be noticalbe all the time.