Freightrain Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Well, after 8 yrs of running her to death, looks like I hurt something. Had strange noise leaving Columbus tonight coming home from weekend at the races. Ran okay(temp and oil pressure). Had strange noise under hard pull, kinda like a metal squeaking(Not rod bearings). I made it home without fail(strange how it never leaves me stranded), but was burp'n antifreeze out the back when I parked in the driveway. Appears to be missing a nut on the drivers rear head stud. Not sure where it went, when it came off? I stopped half way home as friend wanted to pickup a sandwich. I poked under hood, but nothing seems awry, yet. Everything was dry. An hour later, at home it showed it's ugly head.What's it like pull the heads, nothing worse then I'm used to, just bigger? Should I have them checked for cracks. I know they need guides, but don't want to throw a bunch of money at a 50 yrs old engine. It ran great to this point. Just surface it and bolt it back together? Installing new engine isn't in the cards.Just looking for insight. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Well, after 8 yrs of running her to death, looks like I hurt something. Had strange noise leaving Columbus tonight coming home from weekend at the races. Ran okay(temp and oil pressure). Had strange noise under hard pull, kinda like a metal squeaking(Not rod bearings). I made it home without fail(strange how it never leaves me stranded), but was burp'n antifreeze out the back when I parked in the driveway. Appears to be missing a nut on the drivers rear head stud. Not sure where it went, when it came off? I stopped half way home as friend wanted to pickup a sandwich. I poked under hood, but nothing seems awry, yet. Everything was dry. An hour later, at home it showed it's ugly head.What's it like pull the heads, nothing worse then I'm used to, just bigger? Should I have them checked for cracks. I know they need guides, but don't want to throw a bunch of money at a 50 yrs old engine. It ran great to this point. Just surface it and bolt it back together? Installing new engine isn't in the cards.Just looking for insight.Hi Larry, I'll photocopy a print for a jig you can build easily to pull both heads at the same time. I've had mine off in less than an hour this way. In fairness, I didn't have the front sheet metal on the truck.Rob Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Perhaps the noise you heard was a compression leak near the missing head nut. Sometimes a new bolt/ stud and retorque the head will do. If the gasket is blown and the head must come off, like you said- not difficult, only bigger. Years ago I made a simple set of T-bars that screw into the valve cover boltholes to facilitate lifting one head at a time. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted September 6, 2010 Author Share Posted September 6, 2010 Talking with my friend, he just told me the same scenario. He used to run to Chicago and if he lost a bolt on his Cummins, he tried to either switch it out in the parking lot. If not, drive it home and deal with it. He kept extra bolts in the toolbox. He also had T bars welded to pull his heads.I'm kinda torn to weather I want to just find a bolt and stick in it(if I can get to broke part and get it out) or pull the head anyway and replace the gasket and put new bolts in it. I wouldn't mind doing both head gaskets and all bolts just to save from having to do the other head some time in the near future? It is 50 yrs old now....LOL!!It's been down right dependable and I want to keep it that way. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Rider Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 I seriously doubt that you hurt her. Quote #1 on A-model registryIf I drink because of work, why can't I drink at work? Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 My old E9 had a habit of popping head bolts. I carried extra bolts, my torque wrench, and a jig I made to drill and remove the broken bolts. Of course, a V8 cabover gave easy access to all the bolts. The 2 valve heads on the 673 and E6 engines are easy enough to manhandle with a pair of T-bars. The 4 valve heads might send you to the chiropractor! I have done E6, E7 and E9 head gaskets with good results if the head looks good. If you know it needs guides, now is the time to do both heads if you can put the truck down for a few days. Always a good investment to use new head bolts/studs also. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Here is what you may do if you run it very long and its cherping.Cherping means compression leak across the top of the liner and that in a pull is like a torch buring. I have seen many liner beads burnt down from running them to long and after that a head gasket will not hold compression at that point untill the liner is changed. Those liners there do not have a bead like today engines but is only a flat surface and is hard to seal begin with. Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Had the same thing happen with a B81. I heard a noise on acceleration, pull over to look and found one of the head bolts gone and loosing collant from the hole. Got a garbage can and filled it with water to keep topping it off when the temps rose and got it the 20 miles home. I expected the worse and it wasn't. Did the head gaskets and all new bolt and never had the problem again. Wasn't that bad a job as I recall. Paul Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhasler Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Regarding the broken stud-If you cannot drill it and get it completely out with conventional methods there are welding rods available that work really well for welding to studs without damaging the threads in the block. The kit Mack recommends for removing broken exhaust manifold studs on the ASET AC engines is made by Cronatron Welding Systems. Quote "Mebbe I'm too ugly and stupid to give up!" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 We in years ago would save the old push tubes from a mack and cut the ends off if not aready broken off and stick down in the head then stick a welding rod down in there and weld away for a few seconds. Most cases the tube is now welded to the bolt. But they all will not come out.My look at broken head bolts is the gasket was already letting coolant in and around the head bolt and that is what rusts it or frets it causing a break. Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted September 6, 2010 Author Share Posted September 6, 2010 Luckily the stud is still sticking ABOVE the head, so I might still be able to get it out.Checked: no water in oil, still on full mark. I started it this morning to put it back in garage and it idled smooth quiet and nothing squirting out. I think if I can get the stud out, I can salvage it without tearing it down.I did keep it from chirping while coming home unless I absolutely had too, then I'd downshift and let it slow down on a grade.I really don't want to put a ton of money in this motor, as I want to find a 300 or such to replace it anyway. Putting lots of money in headwork isn't going to make it worth any more when I go to get rid of it. I've only got a few more races and if I can take it easy and get it to last til Oct I can tear it down then. I'll be putting the air ride on anyway(I pick it up tomorrow from blasters). Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted September 7, 2010 Author Share Posted September 7, 2010 Well, did some digg'n in my parts bin and came up with TWO new head studs(one big and one small). Now, if I can get the broken stud out, we'll see how it does.Got my fingers crossed. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 Hey Larry, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for ya. Hope it goes well. mike Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 I am almost sure that is a 9/16 stud Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted September 7, 2010 Author Share Posted September 7, 2010 Ya, couldn't get back in there with calipers to measure yet, but I'm assuming the parts I have would have covered the 711 motor also(having the big studs on the corners). Only have a nut for the smaller stud, but think that's the one I need anyway. Need to come up with hardened washer now(if it uses them?).I'll be tinkering with it this afternoon. Need to get plumbing outta the way to get back there easier. Might even get the hood off too. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted September 7, 2010 Author Share Posted September 7, 2010 GOOD NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Well, sorta. I was able to weld a nut onto the old stud and unscrew it. Ah...............relief. I was able to screw new stud in but am missing the hardened washer so I have to wait til tomorrow and get some. Time will tell if it fixes it. Just glad I got it this far with just a little wrenching.I'll hook the trailer to it and drag'r up the road to see if it still whistles to me(keep fingers crossed). Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted September 10, 2010 Author Share Posted September 10, 2010 More GOOD NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I was able to retorque the new stud and I took it for a run with the trailer. No more noise, runs cool, oil pressure is fine. Guess I dodged the bullet this time.I think, when I pull it apart this fall to do the rear end swap I'm going to pull the heads off and replace head gaskets and all the studs for a margin of safety and maintenance. The head gaskets have been seeping pretty bad for a few years now and the side of the block is oil covered. I guess 50 yrs is long enough?? LOL!! Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted September 10, 2010 Share Posted September 10, 2010 More GOOD NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I was able to retorque the new stud and I took it for a run with the trailer. No more noise, runs cool, oil pressure is fine. Guess I dodged the bullet this time.I think, when I pull it apart this fall to do the rear end swap I'm going to pull the heads off and replace head gaskets and all the studs for a margin of safety and maintenance. The head gaskets have been seeping pretty bad for a few years now and the side of the block is oil covered. I guess 50 yrs is long enough?? LOL!!Glad to hear good news, Larry. At least you can run the truck now and do the bigger job at your convenience. Gregg Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted September 10, 2010 Author Share Posted September 10, 2010 Ya, now Barry can watch out for a noisy ol B model to roll into his parking lot next Friday LOL!!Hope to leave after lunch sometime and get out that way mid/late afternoon. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 Ya, now Barry can watch out for a noisy ol B model to roll into his parking lot next Friday LOL!!Hope to leave after lunch sometime and get out that way mid/late afternoon. Larry, Sure sounds like tha man upstairs was lookin out fur ya. Happy for ya! mike Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted September 11, 2010 Author Share Posted September 11, 2010 Mike, ya sure got that right!! I did a lil "thank you" when I took it for a drive and all was well.I got the air ride back and 3/4 painted. Will have to get pics Saturday and get them posted. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Rider Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Are you gonna make it to Wellington this weekend? I will definately be there on Sunday with Faith. I'm debating on taking Saturday off work and going out on Friday and camping like I did at Dover. See ya there! Quote #1 on A-model registryIf I drink because of work, why can't I drink at work? Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted September 15, 2010 Author Share Posted September 15, 2010 Unfortunately, probably not. I'm heading to Pitsburgh on Friday for a race on Saturday. Gates open at 8am, and didn't feel like getting up that early. Not sure how late it will run and not sure I'll come home til Sunday? Going to play that one by ear. If anything I might cruise up in my grey pickup if I'm up for it. After the trip to Pitts., not sure I want to drive the Mack up to Wellington on Sunday. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Rider Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 Moved a shift around and had to cover some call offs but I managed to get Saturday off!!!! Gonna probably go saturday morning when I get off work. Quote #1 on A-model registryIf I drink because of work, why can't I drink at work? Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 Save me a cheeseburger.Rob Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/15615-hurt-the-ol-673head-gasket/#findComment-63623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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