So My Little Adventure Turned Into A Headache

[ThaddeusW]

So my little trip to get the forklift turned into a problem. Here I am thinking all I had to do was pay for a cheap trailer rental, gas and tolls. But the van which is rated to tow up to 10,000 pounds cant because I overlooked the fact that it is not setup to handle that kind of towing. The culprit to me appears to be the rear end ratio because any hill presents a huge challenge to the van. So here I am with a heavy forklift stuck on a rental trailer in Maryland with no cheap/safe way to get it home. At this point I should have just told the guy to keep it and give me my money back but no, I am too stubborn to that.

I dragged it to my friends home some 40 miles and almost burnt the brakes up on the hilly rural roads until i pulled ogver let them cool and then dragged it for about 30 miles on the I-70. It was not a harrowing trip but one that was very uncomfortable. Any hill dropped me from 55 to 35-40 mph which to me feels hazardous. No way am I getting on the 95 for 200 something miles with that mess.

Hertz has pickups but at outrageous prices of around 325 a day with an 80 mile limit and 25 cents a mile over, forget that. I thought about renting a beefy truck from Penske but they don't have standard hitch receivers for a pintle hook. I am not backed into a corner yet but I am beginning to feel that way. Any decent place to rent a truck to haul that trailer? Can anyone offer a hand?

Big time lesson learned by me.

[Mike]

Hey Thad,

Do you have a Ryder Truck rental place near ya? They are more fleet oriented.Just a thought.

mike

[RowdyRebel]

If you were out this way, I'd come get ya with my F250....but you're kinda far. Somebody out that way ought to have a 3/4 or better truck with a decent hitch on it...

....unless they already traded it in for a prius to get better gas mileage

[ThaddeusW]

Hey Thad,

Do you have a Ryder Truck rental place near ya? They are more fleet oriented.Just a thought.

mike

I do in fact have a Ryder rental place near me. I will give em a call.

[ThaddeusW]

If you were out this way, I'd come get ya with my F250....but you're kinda far. Somebody out that way ought to have a 3/4 or better truck with a decent hitch on it...

....unless they already traded it in for a prius to get better gas mileage

You know whats funny, the guy who sold me the lift has an F250 and he had to use it to get the trailer up his insanely steep driveway. The van made it half way up and just lost traction. His F250 took off like a rocket and didn't slow down, went right up and over.

That right there said I had the wrong vehicle. I have been in the market for a new vehicle and have wanted a pickup for a long time. a 2500 or 3500 diesel with single rear tires would be perfect. If I weren't in the city I would get a dually.

[RowdyRebel]

You know whats funny, the guy who sold me the lift has an F250 and he had to use it to get the trailer up his insanely steep driveway. The van made it half way up and just lost traction. His F250 took off like a rocket and didn't slow down, went right up and over.

That right there said I had the wrong vehicle. I have been in the market for a new vehicle and have wanted a pickup for a long time. a 2500 or 3500 diesel with single rear tires would be perfect. If I weren't in the city I would get a dually.

I don't have diesel...just the 460 cid V8 gasser....and a 5 speed manual trans. I'm sorta half-ass in the market for another....either 250 or preferably 350...with the 7.3 powerstroke diesel and either a 5 or 6 speed manual transmission. Don't care if it's single rear wheel or dual, as long as its 4 wheel drive with manual lock hubs & manual shift transfer case, and a crew cab...with an 8' bed. My current truck is only a regular cab....just not much room.

[Speed]

"If I weren't in the city I would get a dually."

What does "in the city" have to do with whether to run duals or not? I kinda like the "intimidation factor" dual wheels offer in heavy traffic,especially big duals. There's something that fosters cooperation among the drivers wheen they look out the side window and see those big ol' front lugnuts and the dual fender-eaters on the rear,spinning about face level to 'em.

I prefer dual wheels,they give you a little more load capacity;a truck with duals handles better fully loaded than with single rear wheels,and you can REALLY load one up before it does the "hippy-hippy shake" on the freeway. Or so I'm told-I don't haul much with my trucks....

Speed

[41chevy]

No up here,They don't even see you.....to busy texting while adjusting their I pod while eating a burger. I had a person of colour hit my rear tires of my D250 Ram.....I didn't see you! Didn't see me? The F'in thing is RED! and 20 feet long!

Plus if you are a hair wider or longr than the parking space the Brown shirts ticket you.

[ThaddeusW]

Plus if you are a hair wider or longer than the parking space the Brown shirts ticket you.

BINGO! The city is ticket happy and I have a good feeling they would get ticket hungry and try to ticket you with everything from sticking out too far to having an improper registration.

So Speed, there is your answer!

BUT its not the end of my lust for a dually. I have been noticing a bunch of 2500 and 3500 diesel pickups (dually and singles) out in Suffolk County with no bed caps, tool boxes and crap in the bed with passenger plates. But I bet the key to flying under the radar is to keep off the parkways and they stay out of the city. And that is a problem because in Long islands infinite wisdom, they build more parkways than highways that run the length of the Island. I pretty much have to take the Southern State every morning because the Long island expressway is further north and is only easily accessable via the clogged Van Wyck expressway. I shoot down the Belt Parkway, connect into the Southern state and get off at exit 32, route 110 north, about 35 minutes travel time. If I had a dually on there I would be cop bait. A few months ago I was pulled over for a burnt out tail light and ticketed for having commercial advertisement on the vehicle along with an improper registration ticket (we had the company name and number on the back window). I cant imagine how hard a cop would ream me for a dually on the parkway. This state sucks sometimes.

[randyp]

BINGO! The city is ticket happy and I have a good feeling they would get ticket hungry and try to ticket you with everything from sticking out too far to having an improper registration.

So Speed, there is your answer!

BUT its not the end of my lust for a dually. I have been noticing a bunch of 2500 and 3500 diesel pickups (dually and singles) out in Suffolk County with no bed caps, tool boxes and crap in the bed with passenger plates. But I bet the key to flying under the radar is to keep off the parkways and they stay out of the city. And that is a problem because in Long islands infinite wisdom, they build more parkways than highways that run the length of the Island. I pretty much have to take the Southern State every morning because the Long island expressway is further north and is only easily accessable via the clogged Van Wyck expressway. I shoot down the Belt Parkway, connect into the Southern state and get off at exit 32, route 110 north, about 35 minutes travel time. If I had a dually on there I would be cop bait. A few months ago I was pulled over for a burnt out tail light and ticketed for having commercial advertisement on the vehicle along with an improper registration ticket (we had the company name and number on the back window). I cant imagine how hard a cop would ream me for a dually on the parkway. This state sucks sometimes.

Well just pack your bags Thad and move on down here to Texas, we dont worry bout all at bullshit down here,,,randy

[RowdyRebel]

Well just pack your bags Thad and move on down here to Texas, we dont worry bout all at bullshit down here,,,randy

...just make sure yer mudflaps ain't too short and yer license plate light works.

[Speed]

I'd be curious to know how they word the local reg's to exclude Duallies from being "acceptable" vehicles in the city. Hell,if they did that up here,we'd only have about a quarter of the current number of trucks on the road. Granted,even up here,if you lose a mudflap or your tail lights quit working or if you nose it into a space short enough that you block traffic,they'll jump you for it,but as long as it's a legal truck in the rest of the free world,they can't keep us off the streets here. And targeting you because you're driving a Duallie-well,they can't do that-that's profiling,and that's illegal!(I wonder how far we'd get in Court with that defense...)

Maybe we should work up a legal defense fund and fight this harassment!

Speed

[ThaddeusW]

I'd be curious to know how they word the local reg's to exclude Duallies from being "acceptable" vehicles in the city. Hell,if they did that up here,we'd only have about a quarter of the current number of trucks on the road. Granted,even up here,if you lose a mudflap or your tail lights quit working or if you nose it into a space short enough that you block traffic,they'll jump you for it,but as long as it's a legal truck in the rest of the free world,they can't keep us off the streets here. And targeting you because you're driving a Duallie-well,they can't do that-that's profiling,and that's illegal!(I wonder how far we'd get in Court with that defense...)

Maybe we should work up a legal defense fund and fight this harassment!

Speed

Here is the strait dope from the NYS DMV website:

Choice of Registering as Passenger or Commercial:

Pick-up trucks with an unladen weight of 5,500 pounds or less, that are used as a personal vehicle, may be

registered in either the commercial or passenger class. In either case, you will pay a commercial registration fee,

along with any commercial use tax applicable for your county (form MV-202C).

Modified Pick-Up:

If the pick-up truck, of any weight, has been modified (that is, the truck bed is completely and permanently

enclosed by a camper top, and has seats, seat fittings or camping equipment mounted in the truck bed), it must be

registered in the passenger class. You must pay a passenger fee, along with any passenger use tax applicable for

your county (form MV-202).

Pick-Up Not Modified:

If the pick-up truck weighs more than 5,500 pounds and has not been modified, it must be registered

in the commercial class. You must pay a commercial fee.

So a dually could be legal but only if the bed is completely enclosed. BUT I see 2500 and 3500 diesel pickups with no cap and passenger plates. Hell just the other day a very nice dually Silverado 3500 diesel pulls up next to me with no cap, a tool box in the bed, some junk in the bed and passenger plates.

Looking up the curb weight for a 2009 Silverado 3500 it caries from 5800 to over 7000 for the dually. So its a legal no-go for passenger plates.

[41chevy]

Here is the strait dope from the NYS DMV website:

Choice of Registering as Passenger or Commercial:

Pick-up trucks with an unladen weight of 5,500 pounds or less, that are used as a personal vehicle, may be

registered in either the commercial or passenger class. In either case, you will pay a commercial registration fee,

along with any commercial use tax applicable for your county (form MV-202C).

Modified Pick-Up:

If the pick-up truck, of any weight, has been modified (that is, the truck bed is completely and permanently

enclosed by a camper top, and has seats, seat fittings or camping equipment mounted in the truck bed), it must be

registered in the passenger class. You must pay a passenger fee, along with any passenger use tax applicable for

your county (form MV-202).

Pick-Up Not Modified:

If the pick-up truck weighs more than 5,500 pounds and has not been modified, it must be registered

in the commercial class. You must pay a commercial fee.

So a dually could be legal but only if the bed is completely enclosed. BUT I see 2500 and 3500 diesel pickups with no cap and passenger plates. Hell just the other day a very nice dually Silverado 3500 diesel pulls up next to me with no cap, a tool box in the bed, some junk in the bed and passenger plates.

Looking up the curb weight for a 2009 Silverado 3500 it caries from 5800 to over 7000 for the dually. So its a legal no-go for passenger plates.

And with all of the regulations, an El Camino or Ranchero can only be regestered with Commercial plates Period!!.

Hey Thad, were you get off the LIE is the end of the loop for the SCPD, Suffolk Sheriffs, NYS police and NCPD. I do think the trucks with passenger plates that are open and working are just lucky right now. When the money gets tighter you'll see them ticketed. Suffolk aSheriffs Dept already runs a Piper Cherokee 100 ft over the LIE and parkways tracking Speeders and agressive drivers, won't be long to the ick ups are targeted..

[Speed]

Thanks for the info;

Where I live,anything up to a one ton has the same plates as a car unless it's a company truck,then the commercial plates are required. so,what does it cost to plate a mid 70's one ton there? It cost me about $75.00 to cover plates and registration on my '76 Chevy C-30,and $20.00 for the title transfer. I think the renewal is something like $38.00. (That's one of the perks of driving an old beater!) I was told my '45 EH would be over $300.00 minimum and it seems like around $470.00 maximum for commercial plates,due to the GVW of 19K as a straight truck,(it has a 5th wheel on it,I don't know what it's rated for with a trailer....). How does that work-it'd be whatever the trailer's rated for,wouldn't it? I'm so confused!!

Speed

[RowdyRebel]

Thanks for the info;

Where I live,anything up to a one ton has the same plates as a car unless it's a company truck,then the commercial plates are required. so,what does it cost to plate a mid 70's one ton there? It cost me about $75.00 to cover plates and registration on my '76 Chevy C-30,and $20.00 for the title transfer. I think the renewal is something like $38.00. (That's one of the perks of driving an old beater!) I was told my '45 EH would be over $300.00 minimum and it seems like around $470.00 maximum for commercial plates,due to the GVW of 19K as a straight truck,(it has a 5th wheel on it,I don't know what it's rated for with a trailer....). How does that work-it'd be whatever the trailer's rated for,wouldn't it? I'm so confused!!

Speed

If you are going to pull a trailer, my understanding of it is that the tractor needs to be registered for the combination's gross weight. If you only pull light loads, you can get by with a lighter registered GVWR...but if you sneak in a heavier load and are caught, you're in trouble. If you don't ever plan on pulling a trailer, registering it for the trucks weight should be fine.....just don't get caught with a trailer.

Again, that's just my understanding of things, so that could be wrong...

[Gambi80]

If you are going to pull a trailer, my understanding of it is that the tractor needs to be registered for the combination's gross weight. If you only pull light loads, you can get by with a lighter registered GVWR...but if you sneak in a heavier load and are caught, you're in trouble. If you don't ever plan on pulling a trailer, registering it for the trucks weight should be fine.....just don't get caught with a trailer.

Again, that's just my understanding of things, so that could be wrong...

So what kinda plate do you have on your pickup? A 'B' or a 'D'...?

IL used to have a deal where if you buy a heavy pickup you could forego the sales tax and plate it with a 'D' plate, but pay a higher yearly fee, $130ish if I remember right, vs. a 'B' plate which was $79, but now $99. Mine will be $104/yr because I've got a personalized plate now.

And allegedly, if you pull a trailer with your pickup, you're supposed to have it inspected and a USDOT number on it...but who does that?

[RowdyRebel]

So what kinda plate do you have on your pickup? A 'B' or a 'D'...?

IL used to have a deal where if you buy a heavy pickup you could forego the sales tax and plate it with a 'D' plate, but pay a higher yearly fee, $130ish if I remember right, vs. a 'B' plate which was $79, but now $99. Mine will be $104/yr because I've got a personalized plate now.

And allegedly, if you pull a trailer with your pickup, you're supposed to have it inspected and a USDOT number on it...but who does that?

My '92 Ranger is plated as a B-truck. The F250 has FF memorial plates on it. Only trailer I have right now is plated TA (under 3000), so behind the Ranger I'm still under 8000 (B-truck).

...and trucks USED to have to be inspected annually, but I've never heard of any need for a USDOT number unless it was being used in a commercial operation. Remember when all pickup truck plates expired in June?

[Speed]

The plates on my one ton look just like the one on my neighbor's car,I don't see any difference from 1 ton truck to car tags. I think you're right,Rebel,it makes sense to me. So-how do they figure out how much weight my truck is safe pulling on a trailer though. I'm thinking in terms of the total weight on the drive axle. I guess anybody that knows me knows my idea of too much weight is about the point where stuff starts falling off the trailer. I'm pretty sure the DOT wouldn't take that subject so lightly,though.

Once I get the inspected etc. I don't think I'll have too much trouble staying out of trouble with it. Now,is it possible to get a temp. permit for a load heavier than the truck/trailer is tagged for? I'd probably wamt to get it set for 25,500# or so,but if I end up with a load heavier than 26,000,I do have a friend with a CDL who said she'd be open to driving that load for me. So that just leaves the legality of a heavier load. The only reason for setting my limit below the CDL limit is that I'd probably be driving it 99% of the time,and that'd save me a littler money and keep me legal.

I've considered getting the restricted CDL,but one of the 3 big restrictions is that it's not valid across state lines,and for what it'd cost me to get,I'd really be adverse to not being able to go into Utah or Idaho with it. Kinda makes it useless to me for some of the time. I dunno maybe it wouldn't make that much difference...Guess I need another trip to DMV to pin 'em down on some details.

Well,Happy Thanksgiving to all,be safe!

Speed

[RowdyRebel]

The plates on my one ton look just like the one on my neighbor's car,I don't see any difference from 1 ton truck to car tags. I think you're right,Rebel,it makes sense to me. So-how do they figure out how much weight my truck is safe pulling on a trailer though. I'm thinking in terms of the total weight on the drive axle. I guess anybody that knows me knows my idea of too much weight is about the point where stuff starts falling off the trailer. I'm pretty sure the DOT wouldn't take that subject so lightly,though.

Once I get the inspected etc. I don't think I'll have too much trouble staying out of trouble with it. Now,is it possible to get a temp. permit for a load heavier than the truck/trailer is tagged for? I'd probably wamt to get it set for 25,500# or so,but if I end up with a load heavier than 26,000,I do have a friend with a CDL who said she'd be open to driving that load for me. So that just leaves the legality of a heavier load. The only reason for setting my limit below the CDL limit is that I'd probably be driving it 99% of the time,and that'd save me a littler money and keep me legal.

I've considered getting the restricted CDL,but one of the 3 big restrictions is that it's not valid across state lines,and for what it'd cost me to get,I'd really be adverse to not being able to go into Utah or Idaho with it. Kinda makes it useless to me for some of the time. I dunno maybe it wouldn't make that much difference...Guess I need another trip to DMV to pin 'em down on some details.

Well,Happy Thanksgiving to all,be safe!

Speed

What is the steer axle rating?

Is it a single or tandem drive?

What is/are the drive axle(s) weight rating?

How many axles will the trailer have?

What sort of weight are the trailer axles rated for?

What is the spacing between the axle groups?

Basically, your GVWR will be determined by the axle weight ratings and the bridge law. If your axles are rated below the "legal" limits under the bridge law for the number of axles and their spacing, the axle ratings are what they will go by. If the axle ratings are higher than what the bridge law will allow, then it goes by the bridge law.

If the truck has air brakes, you'll have to pass a driving test in it (or any other air-brake equipped vehicle) before you can drive it legally. If you have to take the driving test in it, you may as well get your CDL.

One more thing, if you are pulling a trailer plated for more than 10K, you need a class A license. If you are using that trailer for commercial purposes, the license should be a CDL. Even if you are driving your pickup pulling a gooseneck in a hotshot type operation, you still are supposed to have a class A CDL.

[Speed]

As far as the specs I have,all I know is that the GVW as a straight truck (as it was originally sold) is 19,000. I haven't found any info on axle weight ratings. It's a single drive axle,the 5th wheel was added by a previous owner a long time ago. One trailer,the heaviest one,is just a standard 40 foot flatbed tandem axle with air brakes,but the truck is hydraulic brakes with HydraVac. I have no doubt the trailer is good for over 10K,but if I need a CDL to use it at all,it might be better for me to just go on with my plan to build a light duty trailer, big enough to carry a couple of cars on. It's sounding like even if I have a CDL equipped driver available for the truck when it's loaded heavier than 26K,if I plate it for that max. weight,I can't drive it at all,at ANY weight,until I have a CDL,too. That just won't work for me.

I'm sure you professional drivers get really tired of people like me trying to find ways to skirt the law to be able to move our stuff down the road. I guess it's just that the Fed. and State laws are so tightly woven as to make it all but impossible for a man to just drive his own li'l ol' truck-n-trailer around and haul his cars and scrap without a huge investment in equipment and licensing and volumes of rules and restrictions. I know that every time someone finds a way around the bureaucracy and has an "incident",it results in another book of rules and laws to close the loop hole,and that adds to the BS you guys have to deal with. This deal with the Restricted CDL might be worthwhile,but in all honesty,it requires my Dr. to vouch for my blood sugar level being in good control for 1 year,and as a "Brittle Diabetic",that'll never happen for me,and I wouldn't ask her to bend the facts to help me get a CDL. Then,as I understand,I'm required to get a complete physical exam every year,as a condition of keeping my license. I guess it's all part of the show though,I can see why they'd want to over-manage my health. It's easy for me to feel like they're being too pushy with the rules,but when I look at it from the point of view of the folks who drive for a living,I can see,a little better,the reasoning for such caution. I'll try to quit whining about being "Nannied" so much.

Speed