gdmurphey Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 (edited) I NEED THIS FORUMS HELP!!! Recently, I received a copy of John B. Montville's "BULLDOG" copyright 1979. Absolutely a must have for the BULLDOG AC lover. My dilemma is that I have become obsessed with 2 photo's found on page 118 of this book and posted here. These two picture show a rather modernisticlooking COE, chain - driven truck obviously built using a BULLDOG chassis. Presumably,this truck was built in the MACK LONG ISLAND CITY PLANT and designated the "AFM" pehaps after the initials of MACKS chief designer at the time, A.F. Maury. Note that the cab design is like that of a huge BULLDOG hood, and the radiator cover resembles that of a MACK AC.My problem is this. I have contacted the MACK MUSEUM in ALLENTOWN, and they have almost no pictures of this truck - although they do have a file. I am wondering if more pictures exist, and how Montville acquired these. What happened to this vehicle?I am also attaching a list of contributors to Montville's book in hopes that someone in this forum might recognize a name -- yes I remember that the book was written back in the 70's, and that some of these guys were "OLD TIMERS" back then.Simply put -- more info please if it is out there!!! THIS IS A FANTASTIC AND INNOVATIVE TRUCK!!!!LIST OF CONTRIBUTORS --E.A. Hanauer --- former MACK engineerJack Winchester --- former fleet supervisor and early associate of A.F. MasuaryHenry Miller --- Mack executive engineer, retiredhttp://www.bigmacktrucks.com/public/style_emoticons/default/pat.gif Edited December 2, 2010 by DOGONIT Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/16555-1930s-mack-afm-prototype-coe/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 45LMSWM Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 John Montville is still very much alive as far as I know (Sure hope so). Spoke to him last month at Gerhart's. He attends many shows in the Northeast selling his own books and those of others. Might not be a bad place to start.-John Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/16555-1930s-mack-afm-prototype-coe/#findComment-67098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdmurphey Posted November 21, 2010 Author Share Posted November 21, 2010 John Montville is still very much alive as far as I know (Sure hope so). Spoke to him last month at Gerhart's. He attends many shows in the Northeast selling his own books and those of others. Might not be a bad place to start.-John John -- Hope you check your messages and will get back to me. I have tried to reach John through one of his publishers and was not successful.Perhaps you could provide some info on how to reach him?--- George Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/16555-1930s-mack-afm-prototype-coe/#findComment-67119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted November 21, 2010 Share Posted November 21, 2010 I'll be near LIC this week ,I can see the LIC historical society and find out if they have any info. Paul Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/16555-1930s-mack-afm-prototype-coe/#findComment-67129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdmurphey Posted November 21, 2010 Author Share Posted November 21, 2010 (edited) I'll be near LIC this week ,I can see the LIC historical society and find out if they have any info. PaulPaul -- Do appreciate your efforts, in the meantime I am trying to contact JOHN MONTVILLE.thanks - George Edited November 21, 2010 by DOGONIT Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/16555-1930s-mack-afm-prototype-coe/#findComment-67142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdmurphey Posted November 23, 2010 Author Share Posted November 23, 2010 (edited) Perhaps I should have read the whole book!!!! On page 151 of Montville's book "BULLDOG" further mention of the AFM prototype is made in reference to the 1933 CH and CJ cab over engine models ---- QUOTE -- " A MACK prototype c.o.e. model completed in mid - 1933, had a radiator shell having the general shape of the BULLDOG hood when faced head-on. The 1933 prototype (CH & CJ) most likely evolved from the AFM experimental unit that had been completed late in 1930. However, the CH and CJ production models, introduced late in 1933, had exposed radiators of regular design and only the (recently designed *) BULLDOG mascot was left to remind one of its original background. " *The MACK BULLDOG MASCOT was another of MASURY'S designs first appearing in late 1932.This may support some conjecture that the AFM prototype was still around in 1932 and was the inspiration of subsequent c.o.e.'s to come from MACK!!!Also, a letter of inquiry has been sent to Mr. Montville -- Edited November 23, 2010 by DOGONIT Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/16555-1930s-mack-afm-prototype-coe/#findComment-67215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
41chevy Posted November 23, 2010 Share Posted November 23, 2010 Paul -- Do appreciate your efforts, in the meantime I am trying to contact JOHN MONTVILLE.thanks - George The Queens historical Society has a lot of info and photos of the L.I.Cities Mack factory and alot of it's vehicles up to WWII. I ordered the CD. Good to see what it morphed into. Paul Quote "OPERTUNITY IS MISSED BY MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS DRESSED IN OVERALLS AND LOOKS LIKE WORK" Thomas Edison “Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely, in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy shit, what a ride!’” P.T.CHESHIRE Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/16555-1930s-mack-afm-prototype-coe/#findComment-67231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdmurphey Posted November 25, 2010 Author Share Posted November 25, 2010 PLEASE DEAR WIVES ---- DON'T DO THIS AFTER WE'RE GONEThis is a story related to me by my friend Jerry, illustrates why some history is lost --"Fellows:Last evening, I made a quick call to my good buddy and fellow instigator, George, to tell him of a most interesting conversation I had with an out-of-towner, on Wednesday afternoon.This one truly is a "deja vue" classic!! While waiting to get a bank tranaction taken care of, I struck up a conversation with an older fellow who was also waiting; he was in town, visiting a relative for Thanksgiving.Turns out he's originally from Phillipsburg, NJ, and, many years ago, he and his family spent Thanksgiving with his aunt and uncle in Allentown, PA.Bieng also a lifelong railroad buff, I asked this gentleman if he remembered the old CRRNJ station there; he replied that aunt and uncle lived only a short distance away.When I asked if his uncle worked for the railroad, he said no, he worked at the MACK plant!! BOING!! He went on to tell me that his uncle worked on the "assembly line" (this is what he told me) for over 25 years.So, I asked him if his uncle ever brought any old MACK items home that were going to be discarded, and he just laughed and said, "This is a trick question, right?"Seems his uncle LOVED trucks and happily carted home whatever he could, throughout the years (I have NO IDEA what he brought home, EXCEPT that they were all old MACK items) and filled the basement of his house as well as his garage with TONS of old MACK goodies!! Well, of course, I was practically DROOLING at this point, and he then mentioned his uncle had sadly passed away a number years ago. I asked him if anyone in the family held onto any of his uncle's old stuff and he just looked and said, 'Not a chance in hell!"Seems every time this fellow's uncle brought home more MACK stuff, his wife would (again!) hit the ceiling!Really drove her NUTS!!!!!!!!!! So, not long after her husband was buried, she TRASHED......you heard me......TRASHED.....the poor fellow's ENTIRE stash of old MACK memorabilia!!!!! I was close to crying MYSELF, hearing this!!! So, the gent I was talking to went on to say that, if he had known his aunt was going to simply chuck out all of his uncle's MACK collection, he would have taken some stuff for himself, as family "memorabilia"......but......this all happened waaaaayyyyy to fast!! When I told George this sad tale over the phone, I think he was as flabbergasted as I was!! Man, oh, man.....could you just IMAGINE what this guy had collected over the 25-odd years he worked at MACK?? Official photos?Promos?Rare documents?Truck parts?Man, this REALLY is something that can bring a grown man close to tears...... Just picturing the many rare MACK treasure this fine gent accumulated throught his many years at MACK........."Jerry Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/16555-1930s-mack-afm-prototype-coe/#findComment-67327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhasler Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 PLEASE DEAR WIVES ---- DON'T DO THIS AFTER WE'RE GONEThis is a story related to me by my friend Jerry, illustrates why some history is lost --"Fellows:Last evening, I made a quick call to my good buddy and fellow instigator, George, to tell him of a most interesting conversation I had with an out-of-towner, on Wednesday afternoon.This one truly is a "deja vue" classic!! While waiting to get a bank tranaction taken care of, I struck up a conversation with an older fellow who was also waiting; he was in town, visiting a relative for Thanksgiving.Turns out he's originally from Phillipsburg, NJ, and, many years ago, he and his family spent Thanksgiving with his aunt and uncle in Allentown, PA.Bieng also a lifelong railroad buff, I asked this gentleman if he remembered the old CRRNJ station there; he replied that aunt and uncle lived only a short distance away.When I asked if his uncle worked for the railroad, he said no, he worked at the MACK plant!! BOING!! He went on to tell me that his uncle worked on the "assembly line" (this is what he told me) for over 25 years.So, I asked him if his uncle ever brought any old MACK items home that were going to be discarded, and he just laughed and said, "This is a trick question, right?"Seems his uncle LOVED trucks and happily carted home whatever he could, throughout the years (I have NO IDEA what he brought home, EXCEPT that they were all old MACK items) and filled the basement of his house as well as his garage with TONS of old MACK goodies!! Well, of course, I was practically DROOLING at this point, and he then mentioned his uncle had sadly passed away a number years ago. I asked him if anyone in the family held onto any of his uncle's old stuff and he just looked and said, 'Not a chance in hell!"Seems every time this fellow's uncle brought home more MACK stuff, his wife would (again!) hit the ceiling!Really drove her NUTS!!!!!!!!!! So, not long after her husband was buried, she TRASHED......you heard me......TRASHED.....the poor fellow's ENTIRE stash of old MACK memorabilia!!!!! I was close to crying MYSELF, hearing this!!! So, the gent I was talking to went on to say that, if he had known his aunt was going to simply chuck out all of his uncle's MACK collection, he would have taken some stuff for himself, as family "memorabilia"......but......this all happened waaaaayyyyy to fast!! When I told George this sad tale over the phone, I think he was as flabbergasted as I was!! Man, oh, man.....could you just IMAGINE what this guy had collected over the 25-odd years he worked at MACK?? Official photos?Promos?Rare documents?Truck parts?Man, this REALLY is something that can bring a grown man close to tears...... Just picturing the many rare MACK treasure this fine gent accumulated throught his many years at MACK........."JerryThat's a real pisser there. Of course there are other more precious things that can be lost due to over collecting Mack Trucks and related memorabilia, just ask Rob... Quote "Mebbe I'm too ugly and stupid to give up!" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/16555-1930s-mack-afm-prototype-coe/#findComment-67330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmodelsrus Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 That's a real pisser there. Of course there are other more precious things that can be lost due to over collecting Mack Trucks and related memorabilia, just ask Rob...john montville will be at my christmas party next week the 4th, i can ask him about this truck ... matt Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/16555-1930s-mack-afm-prototype-coe/#findComment-67335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 john montville will be at my christmas party next week the 4th, i can ask him about this truck ... mattMatt, Looks like your doing better with your typing. Happy Holidays. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/16555-1930s-mack-afm-prototype-coe/#findComment-67339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdmurphey Posted December 2, 2010 Author Share Posted December 2, 2010 Sadly, I received what info the MACK MUSEUM had in regards to the MACK AFM prototype truck. Unfortunately the folder they had titled AFM was about A F Masury and not the truck. What I did get were copied pages and pictures from John's book --- back to square one. Mr. Montville has been written to and I await hearing from him, Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/16555-1930s-mack-afm-prototype-coe/#findComment-67850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavyhauler Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 I talked to John Montville at Matt Pfahl's Xmas Party. I suggest that you call him-his phone number is 845-462-6469.Regards,John Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/16555-1930s-mack-afm-prototype-coe/#findComment-68136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdmurphey Posted December 8, 2010 Author Share Posted December 8, 2010 (edited) John-- Do appreciate all your help. Will call Mr. Montville as per your instructions!!!george--- Edited December 8, 2010 by DOGONIT Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/16555-1930s-mack-afm-prototype-coe/#findComment-68190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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