Seal Replacement

[Speed]

Hi all;

I'll be replacing the pinion seal on my TR-51 rear axle and both input and output seals on my 6031 Brownie soon,and I don't have any tech info that covers them. Can these seals be replaced without having to set the preload on bearings? (I HOPE!!) If I do have to preload the bearings,what do I set them at?

The extreme leakage from those seals is one of the main reasons I can't drive it except short distances.

The brakes condition is another problem.

Regarding the hydraulic brake problems,I filled the Master cylinder 4 times and pumped the reservoir nearly dry and it still won't build any pedal. No puddles yet,either. It's possible I'm filling the HydraVac with brake fluid,but I do know the Master Cylinder looks like it may be leaking. There's at least one wheel cylinder that shows signs of being stuck,but there doesn't appear to be any leakage. I might get a kit for the M/C and bleed everything some more,see what it does. Maybe with the help of the HydraVac I can un-stick the wheel cylinders,and hopefully the won't leak.(We all know they will,though.)

Speed

[other dog]

Hi all;

I'll be replacing the pinion seal on my TR-51 rear axle and both input and output seals on my 6031 Brownie soon,and I don't have any tech info that covers them. Can these seals be replaced without having to set the preload on bearings? (I HOPE!!) If I do have to preload the bearings,what do I set them at?

The extreme leakage from those seals is one of the main reasons I can't drive it except short distances.

The brakes condition is another problem.

Regarding the hydraulic brake problems,I filled the Master cylinder 4 times and pumped the reservoir nearly dry and it still won't build any pedal. No puddles yet,either. It's possible I'm filling the HydraVac with brake fluid,but I do know the Master Cylinder looks like it may be leaking. There's at least one wheel cylinder that shows signs of being stuck,but there doesn't appear to be any leakage. I might get a kit for the M/C and bleed everything some more,see what it does. Maybe with the help of the HydraVac I can un-stick the wheel cylinders,and hopefully the won't leak.(We all know they will,though.)

Speed

Ought to see fluid somewhere by now if you've put that much in it. I know hydraulic brakes with a booster can be a real pain to get bled and get a decent pedal sometimes.

Hope telling you what you already know helps , if not somebody besides me that actually knows something will i'm sure.

Merry Christmas!

[Speed]

It's crossed my mind that it might be the booster leaking internally into the diaphragm chamber,but I think the master cylinder is the main culprit. I probably have a couple of stuck wheel cylinders too,but they don't seem to be leaking.

I called the local NAPA store,and lucked out,got one of the "old school" parts men who knows how to use the books. I told him I was working ona '45 ,and he said,"Well,I KNOW that's not gonna show up on the 'puter. Hang on while I get the books out." I could hear him set 'em on the counter by the phone,then a couple of loud "Whoosh" sounds,that was him blowing the dust off 'em before he opened 'em . Anyway,long story short,he can get me a rebuild kit for the master cylinder and all four wheel cylinder kits for about $55.00 ,so I might as well just bite the bullet and do it all. He also said if I don't wanna wrestle with rebuilding everything,he can get me a rebuilt master cylinder for $108.00 and new wheel cylinders for $36.50 each,plus some shipping,total of $270.00,but that's a little out of my budget.

Next issue will be the pinion seal and the yoke seals on the Brownie. I wasn't able to see any numbers on the seals,and even NAPA doesn't have a book that covers the truck or the transmission,so it looks like I have to just pull the seals and bring 'em in to find replacements. I need to find out if there's any bearings behind these seals that might need to be set for pre-load. I'm pretty sure the input shaft and output shaft bearings on the Brownie are just run-o-the-mill caged ball bearings,but I'm not too sure about the outer pinion bearing-does it have a crush collar or shims I need to be concerned with? Once I have those seals done I won't worry so much about going down the highway in it.

I found a place that will insure it for $146.00/6 mo.,or $165.00/6 mo. if I want to use it for business.

(I don't know how they'd be able to tell the difference between business and personal use from 500 miles away...)

Well,anyway,it'll be good getting the to hold its oils and brake fluid where it belongs. with those problems corrected,I can officially declare my truck RELIABLE.

Speed

[b61fred]

hi

I am fairly sure that all your bearing preloads are adjusted by shims instead of collapseable spacers ( crush sleeves ). That would be good for you because you dont have to worry about getting things too tight when tighting the yokes. I would suggest that you look at your yokes and inspect the place where the seal rides. If there is a grove then you have to move the seal to a different part of the yoke so it can seal. This basicly means to either drive the seal in a little deeper or shallower than the original position. Some new seals have already compensated for this so just compair to the original. The other option is to install a speedi-sleve on the yoke. It is a thin stainless steel sleeve that renews the sealing serface on the yoke without machining. Make sure to add a little greese to the seal lip so it dont burn up after assembly.

As for brakes, I would say that the vacuum booster is the problem. The fluid goes in and is sucked into the intake and consumed by the engine. Very common. When you rebuild your wheel cylinders make sure there is no pitting of the bore. It will never seal corectly if it is pitted. The rebuilds might not be expensive if you have to pull a wheel and drum off while on the side of the road. I have made a little tool to use incase of this happening. I use an old brake line union the same size as your brake lines and have soldered the hole in the union closed. If you have a blown wheel cylinder on the road, just loosen the line and install the union. Add some brake fluid and you have three wheel brakes instead of none...

I hope this will help you out

Morgan

[Speed]

hi

I am fairly sure that all your bearing preloads are adjusted by shims instead of collapseable spacers ( crush sleeves ). That would be good for you because you dont have to worry about getting things too tight when tighting the yokes. I would suggest that you look at your yokes and inspect the place where the seal rides. If there is a grove then you have to move the seal to a different part of the yoke so it can seal. This basicly means to either drive the seal in a little deeper or shallower than the original position. Some new seals have already compensated for this so just compair to the original. The other option is to install a speedi-sleve on the yoke. It is a thin stainless steel sleeve that renews the sealing serface on the yoke without machining. Make sure to add a little greese to the seal lip so it dont burn up after assembly.

As for brakes, I would say that the vacuum booster is the problem. The fluid goes in and is sucked into the intake and consumed by the engine. Very common. When you rebuild your wheel cylinders make sure there is no pitting of the bore. It will never seal corectly if it is pitted. The rebuilds might not be expensive if you have to pull a wheel and drum off while on the side of the road. I have made a little tool to use incase of this happening. I use an old brake line union the same size as your brake lines and have soldered the hole in the union closed. If you have a blown wheel cylinder on the road, just loosen the line and install the union. Add some brake fluid and you have three wheel brakes instead of none...

I hope this will help you out

Morgan

Thanks Morgan;

I hadn't thought of the brake line "plug"-that's a good idea! I usually just end up ruining the line by putting multiple folds in it until it's crimped shut,to accomplish the same objective. I'll probably build one or two of those to toss into the tool bin,just in case. Since I'm sure I'll need to do at least two of the wheel cylinders and especially the master cylinder,I'll get those done,and see what I can get from that. I generally have pretty good success with rebuilding these things. (I probably just jinxed myself by saying that.) At least if it does turn out to be the booster that's gulping all the fluid,it can't contaminate the rest of the system. On that subject,The didn't have a booster when I got the truck,but really needed one. I took one off a truck I scrapped and adapted it in. But I was told on the GMC trucks web forum that the reason the HydraVac on my '54 GMC wasn't working could be a stuck vacuum check valve (?). Thinking back,I don't remember putting one of those on the . What purpose would it serve? Do I need one?

Regarding the seals,I've used the "speedi-sleeves" on harmonic balancers and vehicle spindles etc. with good results,so I guess it'd be a good idea to go ahead and put 'em on these as well,unless there's no sign of wear.(Very unlikely)

I had this grand idea to do complete fluid changes on my ,my '54 GMC 350,my '57 GMC F350 and my '57 GMC 100 when the land I'm selling closes,but some quick math tells me that just the oils would cost me about $1,000.00,filters another $50.00 or so. So I've decided I'll just top off what I need to for now,except the 's boxes,which I MIGHT change to synthetic oil. If I understand it right,the Brownie should have a 50 weight oil in it,so I'm thinking of using 20W50 synthetic. I'm hoping to eventually somewhat standardize the oils so I can buy one kind in bulk (better price) and not have to use different stuff for everything. I also keep hearing and reading that going to synthetic in the transmissions makes for less gear to gear friction and drag,less wear,and helps fuel economy,all of which might pay off over time. It's also been suggested they shift easier,that'd be nice,too. I can't get myself to try the 20W50 in an axle though,it just feels too thin,to me. Maybe a synthetic GEAR oil;though it's pretty spendy,that would narrow it down to just a couple of different oils. I really think 20W50'll work fine in all the transmissions though,and the engines too,as long as they don't leak or burn much oil.(The DOESN'T) Once the is done,I'll try to schedule one transmission per month for the change over until they're all done.

Speed

[b61fred]

I am glad you liked the brake line plug... It's a family favorite. My pappaw never trusted hydraulic brakes, he was a mechanic in the model 'A' ford days. The check valve in the booster line is so the line only flows one way. For insance... you started up your truck and let it idle, it has 18 in of vacuum in the booster resivor, you start to climb a hill with a heavy load, throtle wide open, manifold vacuum is very low 5 in, with the check valve the vacuum in the booster is still at 18in, instead of flowing backwards. It also helps with backfires and you have maybe on aplication with the engine shut down.

Morgan

[Speed]

I am glad you liked the brake line plug... It's a family favorite. My pappaw never trusted hydraulic brakes, he was a mechanic in the model 'A' ford days. The check valve in the booster line is so the line only flows one way. For insance... you started up your truck and let it idle, it has 18 in of vacuum in the booster resivor, you start to climb a hill with a heavy load, throtle wide open, manifold vacuum is very low 5 in, with the check valve the vacuum in the booster is still at 18in, instead of flowing backwards. It also helps with backfires and you have maybe on aplication with the engine shut down.

Morgan

That makes sense-I have one of those check valves on one of the work benches somewhere,I saved it off the '60 GMC 370 I scrapped in Reno,I'll clean it out and get it installed. I also saved a really cool little oil bath breather I'm going to service and put on the truck to replace the "Chromey-Joe" Chevy valve cover breather I've been using. I wouldn't mind re-plumbing the system with new lines and hoses;when I installed this HydraVac I wasn't sure it'd work out so I sorta cobbled the vacuum piping and brake lines together with whatever I could find,and I'm not very proud of its appearance or routing. Remembering back,I WAS able to get it to work well for a short time,but the master cylinder was leaking and I only got 3 or 4 good stops before the M/C was empty and i started getting air in the lines.

Speed