oldmacktrucks Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Well, all the injectors pulled out of my 300 2 valve with the help of Shel's S-572 puller set. I did have 2 sleeves pull out on me as well. Do I need a sleeve driver to put new sleeves in, of can I just drive the in with a piece of round stock? How far do they have to go in, I was reading in the service book there is a special driver that sops the sleeve at the correct depth...could use some advice on this one Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/17624-injector-sleeve-question/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhasler Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Well, all the injectors pulled out of my 300 2 valve with the help of Shel's S-572 puller set. I did have 2 sleeves pull out on me as well. Do I need a sleeve driver to put new sleeves in, of can I just drive the in with a piece of round stock? How far do they have to go in, I was reading in the service book there is a special driver that sops the sleeve at the correct depth...could use some advice on this one I don't have any information stating the correct depth, the information I have says tool J-21374 will bottom against the head. I'll see if we have one sitting around tomorrow that I can measure if needed. My service literature says the insert needs to be reamed after installation. Here are the specs that I have (probably the same as what you have though):Injection Nozzle Sleeve-to Bore (Press Fit)-0.0015–0.0040Bore in Block for Injection Nozzle Holder Insert (Large End A, Small End -A 1.090–1.092 B 0.998–1.000Injection Nozzle Holder Insert Diameter (Large End A, Small End - A 1.0935–1.0940 B 1.0015–1.0020I'll see if we have a head sitting around in the morning but I think the sleeves also bottom in the head. Quote "Mebbe I'm too ugly and stupid to give up!" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/17624-injector-sleeve-question/#findComment-71128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmacktrucks Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 I don't have any information stating the correct depth, the information I have says tool J-21374 will bottom against the head. I'll see if we have one sitting around tomorrow that I can measure if needed. My service literature says the insert needs to be reamed after installation. Here are the specs that I have (probably the same as what you have though):Injection Nozzle Sleeve-to Bore (Press Fit)-0.0015–0.0040Bore in Block for Injection Nozzle Holder Insert (Large End A, Small End -A 1.090–1.092 B 0.998–1.000Injection Nozzle Holder Insert Diameter (Large End A, Small End - A 1.0935–1.0940 B 1.0015–1.0020I'll see if we have a head sitting around in the morning but I think the sleeves also bottom in the head.Pretty much what I have, I would have to assume that the sleeve bottoms out in the head just by the way it looked when the injector came out...the injector was bottomed out on the sleeve. I'll more than likely use a brass puch and drive it in slowly...hopefully it will work Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/17624-injector-sleeve-question/#findComment-71136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Pretty much what I have, I would have to assume that the sleeve bottoms out in the head just by the way it looked when the injector came out...the injector was bottomed out on the sleeve. I'll more than likely use a brass puch and drive it in slowly...hopefully it will work I've never worked on a Mack engine but a Detroit has a tool that looks similar to an injector to install the copper sleeve.Rob Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/17624-injector-sleeve-question/#findComment-71138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Pretty much what I have, I would have to assume that the sleeve bottoms out in the head just by the way it looked when the injector came out...the injector was bottomed out on the sleeve. I'll more than likely use a brass puch and drive it in slowly...hopefully it will work The sleeve bottoms in the head!In stall it with a little red locktight! Slather the injector with LOTS of neversease on install! And make sure the copper washer came up with old injecto, If not ya need to get it outa there! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/17624-injector-sleeve-question/#findComment-71162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmacktrucks Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 The sleeve bottoms in the head!In stall it with a little red locktight! Slather the injector with LOTS of neversease on install! And make sure the copper washer came up with old injecto, If not ya need to get it outa there!Can I drive the new sleeve in with a brass punch? I see in the book it calls for a driver tool. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/17624-injector-sleeve-question/#findComment-71163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmacktrucks Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 I've never worked on a Mack engine but a Detroit has a tool that looks similar to an injector to install the copper sleeve.RobMy sleeves look to be steel, I've honestly never had one pull out on me so this is all new to me. My book says it requires a tool, but they appear to bottom out on the bottom of the head, so I think I'm going to try the old brass punch and just go nice and easy and hopefully they will drive back in Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/17624-injector-sleeve-question/#findComment-71166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 My sleeves look to be steel, I've honestly never had one pull out on me so this is all new to me. My book says it requires a tool, but they appear to bottom out on the bottom of the head, so I think I'm going to try the old brass punch and just go nice and easy and hopefully they will drive back in I really don't know much about it but have read the procedure. I've always had the machine shop handle the head work complete. Of course yours is a different animal being the heads are still on the engine.Rob Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/17624-injector-sleeve-question/#findComment-71169 Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmacktrucks Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 I really don't know much about it but have read the procedure. I've always had the machine shop handle the head work complete. Of course yours is a different animal being the heads are still on the engine.Robsame here, always sent the heads out to have this done...well, worse case scenario I'll put it all back together and if for some reason the heads gotta come off, atleast its only the front head! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/17624-injector-sleeve-question/#findComment-71172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I have never install new sleeve but have done this many times. Clean the bore and old sleeve and use a lock tight and drive it down with a something on top. Never get inside of the sleeve.We had a black looking sealer years ago we used on them as well as a leaking block bore before you install the liner. The sealer was same stuff that bars leak was made of. But a lock tight would be so much better.Easy way to get old coppers out is us a heel bar and insert the taper end down in the injector tip hole in the head and wiggy around and it will stick on the end.I guess years ago the sleeves came out of the head more often than now. Back then you had ever one working on them or trying to.You would run in to some real repairs.Lot of baling wire and nails drove in and bent over.Any one remenber when wire crimp on terminals came out. Before that it was wires tied together and black tape wraped around that. I think a ecm now days could see that they would fail on first sight. Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/17624-injector-sleeve-question/#findComment-71195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 same here, always sent the heads out to have this done...well, worse case scenario I'll put it all back together and if for some reason the heads gotta come off, atleast its only the front head! I think you'll be fine with the drift idea they have J tools for everything It don't mean we use em all!Theres a special tool for setting dynatard engine brakes I used it once and never again! Most things arent magic on these things as much as they would like to baffle you with BS !The new riggs are a diffrent story thou you can't really do anything with out a puter! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/17624-injector-sleeve-question/#findComment-71213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 As Glen stated above don't beat in on the inside use the outside edge, you should also get a injector sleeve reamer to true everything up after it is in. terry Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/17624-injector-sleeve-question/#findComment-71217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmacktrucks Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 My buddy at the pump shop was telling me to install the injector in the new sleeve (with anti-seize unlike the factory) Then put the injector with the sleeve in the freezer or in a cooler with dry ice overnight to make it shrink, then take it out put some high temp rtv on the top and bottom of the sleeve and install it along with the injector. This is coming from a well seasoned Mack man...I've never seen it done this way but he said he used to do it all the time, I also mentioned to him about the lock-tite and he said to use a high temp silicone instead. Sounds like it might work, I know we use dry ice all the time when replacing trunions and it works like a champ. I'll be sure to post a follow up as soon as I get the pump and injectors back in the truck...I have to say in all my years I have never ad a sleeve pull out on a Mack, guess I was just lucky! The injectors were frozen in there bad...worst I have seen other than marine injectors and the engine is clean...no rust go fiqure Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/17624-injector-sleeve-question/#findComment-71247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmacktrucks Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 I have never install new sleeve but have done this many times. Clean the bore and old sleeve and use a lock tight and drive it down with a something on top. Never get inside of the sleeve.We had a black looking sealer years ago we used on them as well as a leaking block bore before you install the liner. The sealer was same stuff that bars leak was made of. But a lock tight would be so much better.Easy way to get old coppers out is us a heel bar and insert the taper end down in the injector tip hole in the head and wiggy around and it will stick on the end.I guess years ago the sleeves came out of the head more often than now. Back then you had ever one working on them or trying to.You would run in to some real repairs.Lot of baling wire and nails drove in and bent over.Any one remenber when wire crimp on terminals came out. Before that it was wires tied together and black tape wraped around that. I think a ecm now days could see that they would fail on first sight.Bailing wire is a must in a real mechanics tool box! I grew up with bailing wire and electrical tape, we fixed all of our own trucks...my uncle was an A mechanic for cummins years ago...now everything is ECM this and computer that...cant go wrong with the old technology in my book, which is why I bought an 89 glider kit, newer cab but trusty old components. Funny, I was also thinking lock-tite on the sleeves but my pump man (an old school Mack nut) was telling me to use a high temp RTV...not sure on this one Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/17624-injector-sleeve-question/#findComment-71248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lmackattack Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 yea thats a good idea to get the sleeve cold so it drops in. just hope the injector hole dont get to tight with it? Over at the railway museum they have to sweat the steel "tires" on the steam locomotive wheels. they have this huge flame ring to heat the steel tire and then they have to quickly drop it on the wheel and hammer it down into place before it cools. Kinda cool to watch. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/17624-injector-sleeve-question/#findComment-71249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Bailing wire is a must in a real mechanics tool box! I grew up with bailing wire and electrical tape, we fixed all of our own trucks...my uncle was an A mechanic for cummins years ago...now everything is ECM this and computer that...cant go wrong with the old technology in my book, which is why I bought an 89 glider kit, newer cab but trusty old components. Funny, I was also thinking lock-tite on the sleeves but my pump man (an old school Mack nut) was telling me to use a high temp RTV...not sure on this one For sure your a real mechanic if you can replace parts with baling wire. Yes it has its place but its for tieing up hoses or wires temparary till you get home.i have a truck now that owner before me has cobbled up ever thing there is a place to get his hands on.It always give a problem if you have a load of asphalt.I have got most of his repairs done over.He just about messed the wiring up in the dash. Cross wiring and by/passing and one switch was connecting the switch to another.He replace all of the stanless screws in side with steel that will rust with little pretty plactic chrome looking buttons and stripped the threads in ever thing he tighten.As for the wiring on trucks i have said for 40 years the factory needs to go to 440 volts and then put that in a conduct pipe. Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/17624-injector-sleeve-question/#findComment-71252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmacktrucks Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 For sure your a real mechanic if you can replace parts with baling wire. Yes it has its place but its for tieing up hoses or wires temparary till you get home.i have a truck now that owner before me has cobbled up ever thing there is a place to get his hands on.It always give a problem if you have a load of asphalt.I have got most of his repairs done over.He just about messed the wiring up in the dash. Cross wiring and by/passing and one switch was connecting the switch to another.He replace all of the stanless screws in side with steel that will rust with little pretty plactic chrome looking buttons and stripped the threads in ever thing he tighten.As for the wiring on trucks i have said for 40 years the factory needs to go to 440 volts and then put that in a conduct pipe.Great point, high voltage would mean less tampering! I dont know why people feel the need to cut into a trucks wiring harness, if you ask me I dont even like to add a CB without running the wiring to match the factory to a T. I see a truck that has a hacked wiring harness and I pass, even if its a good deal...I just dont have the patience anymore to deal with someone elses hack job. A nice bare bones factory (or done right glider kit) is good enough for me Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/17624-injector-sleeve-question/#findComment-71269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmacktrucks Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 yea thats a good idea to get the sleeve cold so it drops in. just hope the injector hole dont get to tight with it? Over at the railway museum they have to sweat the steel "tires" on the steam locomotive wheels. they have this huge flame ring to heat the steel tire and then they have to quickly drop it on the wheel and hammer it down into place before it cools. Kinda cool to watch.Sounds cool...I had an uncle that was the head of the transportation museum here in upstate New York...he would have loved to see that, he was a "train man" so to speak Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/17624-injector-sleeve-question/#findComment-71270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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