The Old Engines

[Speed]

Hi,all;

I posted on this subject in General Discussion,but decided it probably belongs here.

I would like to know a little more about the flathead six gas engine in this '40 that looks like a '38 EH I bought. I'd just go look if I was about 300 miles closer to it. Anyway,what displacement would it probably be? (The truck appeared to be original,but I don't know what engines could have been swapped in without mods,so Was redline on the gas engines also 2,100 rpm's? Assuming good running condition,what's a safe upper cruise rpm for it? I'm asking this because I was told that,for instance,a Cummins should be run at around 1,800,and a Detroit likes to run WFO,so I wanna be sure of what I'm subjecting this engine to. (I'm taking the Detroit comment with a grain-o-salt...) And how were they known to behave as to performance-powerful? gutless wonders? You'll hear this from me a lot-I can't wait to get this truck home!!!

Speed

[Greg Rider]

I have a 1950 A30 and it has a flathead 6 in it.Some books say it is an EN331.My owners manual says the same thing.The engine displacement is 330ci. It is rated 122HP at a max of 2950 rpm.When I shift I take her right up to the max revs and then shift.By the time that I can get the next gear in my crazy shift pattern trans the truck has slowed enough and the revs have come down that it is almost at a lugging condition.I am definately not an idiot about my truck.I take it up easy and don't push it hard or shove anything.She only has 8900 original miles and is still tight.It is rated to do 62 mph max and it loves to go 45-50 all day long pulling about 2000 to 2500 rpm's.It has hauled 6 round bales of damp hay weighing about 12,000 lbs with no problem at 45mph!!!

[Speed]

I have a 1950 A30 and it has a flathead 6 in it.Some books say it is an EN331.My owners manual says the same thing.The engine displacement is 330ci. It is rated 122HP at a max of 2950 rpm.When I shift I take her right up to the max revs and then shift.By the time that I can get the next gear in my crazy shift pattern trans the truck has slowed enough and the revs have come down that it is almost at a lugging condition.I am definately not an idiot about my truck.I take it up easy and don't push it hard or shove anything.She only has 8900 original miles and is still tight.It is rated to do 62 mph max and it loves to go 45-50 all day long pulling about 2000 to 2500 rpm's.It has hauled 6 round bales of damp hay weighing about 12,000 lbs with no problem at 45mph!!!

Greg;

When you referred to your "crazy shift pattern trans",it sounds like mine. According to the Mack Truck Museum's info on my truck,it's supposed to have a Mono shift. Does that have a "crazy" shift pattern? I don't see the trigger it's supposed to have on the shifter,and the previous owner has installed an overdrive Brownie. I'm guessing the trans in it is not the original.

Speed

[Joe Ditchkus]

Hello Speed. Did you end up with the E Model? Last post I read from you it was not working out. Good luck if you got it. Joe D.

[Speed]

Hello Speed. Did you end up with the E Model? Last post I read from you it was not working out. Good luck if you got it. Joe D.

Hello Joe;

Well,I don't have it home yet,but on my last trip to Reno I went over and talked to the owner again,and got him to sign a receipt for the deposit I paid earlier,and I agreed to pay the $1,500.00 he raised the price to. I think it's still a good deal,and on closer inspection I don't think it'll be as hard to ressurrect as I'd thought. Anyway,we have an official handshake agreement to a set price,and I have a signed receipt-that makes it a binding contract. Still scratching my head over the shift pattern on the main box though. It isn't a traditional H pattern 5 speed. Did ever use this "scrambled" pattern on their stock 5 speeds? If so,okay,I'll learn it. If not,the transmission is a trans-plant,and I might be looking for a more original box for it..

I'm tentatively planning to go pay it off and drive it home in a month or less,pending the sale of my Triumph.

Maybe you can answer a question about air brakes for me;I'd like to know about how much air volume and pressure it takes to run the brakes on a tandem axle trailer. I'm trying to figure out how big of an air tank and compressor I'd need on the E to pull a trailer safely.

Thanks!

Speed

[Joe Ditchkus]

Speed. You would need a compressor 7.25 cu.ft. or larger.The air governor usually kicks in at 80 to 85 lbs and out at 115 to 120 lbs you can adjust it more or less at the air governor. You could use an air cooled compressor(Midland Ross) or if it is piped for water cooled (Bendix Westinghouse).There are other brands just 2 as an example.You said you have worked lined up I hope it is light loads with the Hydraulic on tra ctor.With the small gaspot engine I hope it is feasible for you.Good Lucl on your Endeavors. P.S. The reason I mentioned yhe air cooled modelis I think it would be easier to hook up or fabricate than a gear driven one.If the bracket or mount is still in there from the original air compressor it will be a lot easier to hook up.

[Speed]

Speed. You would need a compressor 7.25 cu.ft. or larger.The air governor usually kicks in at 80 to 85 lbs and out at 115 to 120 lbs you can adjust it more or less at the air governor. You could use an air cooled compressor(Midland Ross) or if it is piped for water cooled (Bendix Westinghouse).There are other brands just 2 as an example.You said you have worked lined up I hope it is light loads with the Hydraulic on tra ctor.With the small gaspot engine I hope it is feasible for you.Good Lucl on your Endeavors. P.S. The reason I mentioned yhe air cooled modelis I think it would be easier to hook up or fabricate than a gear driven one.If the bracket or mount is still in there from the original air compressor it will be a lot easier to hook up.

Hi Joe;

Thanks for the info. I was told earlier this truck should probably have a Tu-Flow 400 on it,or at least that's the comparable unit for it now. I found some of 'em factory reconned on Ebay;not sure what the going rate will be,but I did notice that they all looked like they were gear-driven. Is there an adapter to run them off an external belt,and where would I find a pulley for one? I don't remember seeing any open mounting flanges on the enginefor the internally driven type,but the factory picture shows an internally driven compressor. Maybe mine's been converted to an externally driven model compressor.(more flexibility of applications?) There does seem to be a bracket on the upper right area of the engine that appears to be for a compressor.

I've considered making a mounting plate that would carry two Ford,or maybe Chrysler V-twin A/C compressors plumbed together,feeding into a good sized air tank ,but I'm not sure they'd make enough volume to feed the trailer brakes in traffic or in tight maneuvering situations where frequent brake applications would be needed. If I can find the correct parts,I'd be better off using the right compressor for the job.

I think the gas engine will work out fine for my use,since I don't anticipate much,if any, over the road hauling of more than 100 miles or so each way,and no really heavy loads. I'd be hauling stuff for my own use-building materials,vehicles,scrap metal,etc. and the occasional "help a friend" kinds of things that come up. As far as the size loads,I would probably rely a little more on the trailer braking than usual,but at the sedate speeds I'd be going,I don't feel brakes would be overworked except for,as I said,heavy traffic or close quarters jockeying around.

Have you had a chance to notice your average gas consumption yet? I'd really like to know what to expect for mileage. And what transmission does your rig have? If it's the straight five speed,what's the shift pattern on it? Dude-I'm goin' nuts! I wanna get my truck home and start workin' on it!! And I have decided I WILL need a set of shift knobs and mud flaps,and a Bulldog for the radiator shell. I just can't move the truck without that stuff in place-it'd be SACRILLEGE!!(sp?)

Speed

[Joe Ditchkus]

Speed. Most of the older gas powered trucks had belt driven air compressors,go to a junkyard and see if you can buy a good one from them.I do not see how you are going to use a compressor from an air cond. unit if that is what you are trying to do. I do not run any gaspots over the road I have a Series 60 515HP in my tri axle for work. Most of my old trucks are Diesel but I have 3 gassers I never checked the mileage as I only run them once in a while to play around. The 3 gassers I have have 5 main and 3 speed auxiliaries.

[Speed]

Speed. Most of the older gas powered trucks had belt driven air compressors,go to a junkyard and see if you can buy a good one from them.I do not see how you are going to use a compressor from an air cond. unit if that is what you are trying to do. I do not run any gaspots over the road I have a Series 60 515HP in my tri axle for work. Most of my old trucks are Diesel but I have 3 gassers I never checked the mileage as I only run them once in a while to play around. The 3 gassers I have have 5 main and 3 speed auxiliaries.

Thanks Joe;I wondered about the shift pattern on the 5 speeds. The more I think about it,the more I think this truck has the correct 5 speed in it. Apparently they have an "oddball" shift pattern compared to the typical GM or Ford med. duty 5 speeds. I see in the build sheet my truck came with a 5 speed,and single speed rear axle. It now has a 3 speed Brownie also,and I'm guessing it'd be an overdrive box;I'll have to get the numbers off the tag and look it up.

The idea for using A/C compressors came from a friend of mine who used one on his F-700 for road service work,just for running an air wrench or an air drill.He wired the clutch on it to a toggle switch at first,and eventually set it up with hi and lo pressure switches. The A/C compressor has worked great for his purpose for over 20 years without problems. I don't think it'd flow enough volume for me to feel confident in it in powering trailer brakes and air horns though,so I'm tossing that idea. I'll try the local wrecking yard for a more proper compressor,and once I get it all fitted and connected I'll shop for a recon if it needs one.

Speed

[Greg Rider]

Hey Speed! Sorry it took a while to respond.My shift pattern is like this,

1 2 5

|_|_|

| | |

R 3 4

The trans is the original Fuller model 5-A-330,5th gear is overdrive,direct in fourth.

I get about 5 to 6 mpg when she is tuned and running good.It has a 21 gallon tank under the seat,I have gotten around 100+ miles on a tank,that's how I guessed my mileage.I really don't drive it far enough to worry about mileage,I just fill it when it needs it

Having an old is nice,driving an old is cool,working an old is just too sweet

[Speed]

Hey Speed! Sorry it took a while to respond.My shift pattern is like this,

1 2 5

|_|_|

| | |

R 3 4

The trans is the original Fuller model 5-A-330,5th gear is overdrive,direct in fourth.

I get about 5 to 6 mpg when she is tuned and running good.It has a 21 gallon tank under the seat,I have gotten around 100+ miles on a tank,that's how I guessed my mileage.I really don't drive it far enough to worry about mileage,I just fill it when it needs it

Having an old is nice,driving an old is cool,working an old is just too sweet

Hi Greg;

No problem-good to hear from you again. YEP-that's like the pattern in mine! My build sheet shows mine having a direct 5th though. That's why I'm assuming the Brownie the PO installed will show to be an overdrive unit.

The mileage doesn't look as good as I'd hoped for,but is about what I'd expected,so it's cool. Out here mileage is kind of a big deal because there are a lot of stretches of highway where I'd run out of gas between towns if I didn't keep a close watch on things and carry a few gallons extra. Looks like about 90 to 100 miles range,so going to Reno I'd be running on fumes from Lovelock into Reno! (I could coast down the hills,but there aren't any "coastable" hills in that area. Well,I can probably milk a couple of mpg more out of 'er if I drive gentle and keep the go pedal off the floor. I'm resolving myself to about a 50 mph cruise speed even with the overdrive. (That's not too far off the cruise speed of my old Chevy one ton-it's good for about 65 mph before things start un-adjusting. I still need to check into some of the rules regarding weight limits,personal vs.commercial use,and when a CDL is actually required. The CDL is only an issue for me because I'm insulin dependent Diabetic. Since my truck is for personal use only,and my trailer will probably have a pick up camper on the front of it,it could be considered an RV,couldn't it? As I understand the law,RV's don't require a CDL. If it comes down to needing a CDL to drive my Mack,there's a way I can get a provisional CDL by presenting a statement from my doctor stating my blood glucose level has been under good control for a year. The down side of this is that it's only valid in Nevada,I can't haul Haz-Mat and I can't haul people.(No bus driving) The Nevada only bit is the hard part for me,since I'd like the option of hauling scrap metal to Utah to sell off,or going into Idaho for an old car or building materials for my home.

I guess I'll have to see how this all shakes out.

Speed

[Greg Rider]

Hey speed your need for a CDL will depend on a few things.Is your truck under 26,000 GVW?What type of brakes,air or hydraulic?Be careful how you register the truck.I have a classic vehicle plate for my truck and got a permit to use a model year plate on it.It is only permitted to be used for parades and other special events.Well my defenition of special event is pretty much any time I drive the old girl If you are hauling anything for hire you may need to put regular plates on,follow all DOT regs and keep a log book,stop at weigh stations,etc.You would also need to have commercial insurance on the truck which is not cheap.I only haul personally owned things with my truck and carry regular classic vehicle insurance.My coverage allows me to use the truck for these things.

[Speed]

Hi Greg;

My truck is fitted with hydraulic brakes,and has a 20,000 pound GVWR. I have it roughly figured out that once I have my boom and flatbed,rear hitch assembly and a better front bumper on it,I'll still be able to carry approx. 7,500 pounds on my truck,and another approx. 3,500 on a small trailer,like a tandem axle car hauler,or flatbed,if it ever happens I get such a trailer,without hitting the big 26K mark. I don't plan to do any "For Hire" hauling-too many hoops to jump through-but might haul some stuff locally for friends,for gas.

I'm intending to just go with personal vehicle plates with my GVW declared at 20,000 pounds.That'll (only?) cost me $262.00/yr.,and my insurance agent told me since it'll be a personal vehicle my insurance will run about the same $45.00-$50.00 per month as my one ton flatbed. Assuming I don't get sucker-punched by a major mechanical problem with the ,the biggest issue I see in the future is the gas mileage. (5-6mpg) I'll just have to see if I can do something about it as I go. I think there a few things I can do to improve the fuel economy,but I'm afraid most would involve large "Money Infusions". I'm thinking a change to a downdraft intake,maybe some carb modifications or a different carb,an electronic ignition,possibly a set of good used 10.00X20 radials,a flex-fan,I'm sure other things will come to me later. And,of course,learning how to milk the best mileage possible from my truck as it is. (HMMmmm--I wonder how it'd work with a turbo??)

I'm looking at a couple of pictures of the EN354 engine;it looks to me like there's a cover plate on the cylinders across from the manifolds. Were these engines designed to be able to run the manifolds on either side of the engine? If this is the case,it opens the possibility of a cross-flow induction system;that'd potentially make for considerably more performance and probably better mileage. More to think about...

Speed