Oil In Heat Exchanger

[sea dog]

Been taking care of this motor since new. I'm no mechanic but have kept it running thus far 12,500hrs. Mostly pm and marinized parts. Heat exchanger, clutch cooler, after cooler, exhaust mainfold and turbo charger. These are the $$ parts. I have a spare heat exchanger and swapped it out just because its been 5 years and I think Its been losing some coolant somewhere. Any how, when draning the coolant, the last 1/2 gallon or so was oil, or at least a very oily mixture of collant and oil. I have had a clutch cooler problem 2 years ago and replaced. Maybe some oil still residual in there.I'm quite sure I've replaced the coolant since then though. Exhaust manifold should be just air and exhaust? I just put water in Heat exchanger and have ran about 50 hrs and am going to drain it again and see if there is any oil in the new one. If there is, shouldn't I be losing oil from somewhere? dipstick or trans?

[slpwlker]

First off Welcome to the jungle. I'm sure someone here can answer your question here

[sea dog]

First off Welcome to the jungle. I'm sure someone here can answer your question here

Thanks Big Dog. I'm from Jupiter, Fl. currently Hatteras,nc

[hatcity]

1)

2) I'm in Stuart

3) do you know her:

She has the Boca hot dog stand

edit: that reminds me that we're having hot dogs for the 4th

buns look ready

[rhasler]

Never seen one in person, so I'm certainly no expert on them, but the base engine should essentially be the same as the automotive E7 engine. The troubleshooting section in the Mechanical Marine E7 manual 5-108 says oil cooler or head gasket. Do you have a the service manual for the engine?

I always wondered how those engines performed and was always intrigued by the fact that the same base engine that in automotive applications only put out 350 HP stock could be reliably hopped up to 650 HP for marine usage.

[Rob]

There are boats running the Illinois and Mississippi with 3406C Caterpillars running near a 1000hp each also. An unlimited supply of cooling water is paramount to this. I have personally seen a 3406, and a C16 push in excess of 1000hp in the dyno room at Mossville. These too have much more cooling capacity than a truck could offer.

Rob

[theakerstwo]

Your setting on your cooler when in water plus its not like your pulling full horse power 100% of the time. Never been on one but i guess once you get the boat on top you will throdle back so figure.

[sea dog]

Never seen one in person, so I'm certainly no expert on them, but the base engine should essentially be the same as the automotive E7 engine. The troubleshooting section in the Mechanical Marine E7 manual 5-108 says oil cooler or head gasket. Do you have a the service manual for the engine?

I always wondered how those engines performed and was always intrigued by the fact that the same base engine that in automotive applications only put out 350 HP stock could be reliably hopped up to 650 HP for marine usage.

Yeah, its truly a workhorse motor. 5 of us have one here in Hatteras and we put them to the test. I've beeb thousands of miles and hours on the ocean and hopefully due to PM and care she has not let me down yet. I do have the overhaul and service manual. I did drain the H2o yesterday after installing the new heat exchanger and it was a milky yellow color but still felt like water instead of oil. It dyed the water in a barrell I dumped it into, not oily surface, just colored the water. could this be residual oil from in the cooling system? If it starts to clean up after dumping it a few times, can I use some detergent to run through the system to clean it all out before I charge back with coolant? If oil remains though I do have a spare cooler to try next.

Sorry Im kind of ranting here but if there is oil, shouldn't I be losing it somewhere? and if it was from the motor, not the gear, wouldn't it be black instead of clean oil?

[mackcl96]

Never seen one in person, so I'm certainly no expert on them, but the base engine should essentially be the same as the automotive E7 engine. The troubleshooting section in the Mechanical Marine E7 manual 5-108 says oil cooler or head gasket. Do you have a the service manual for the engine?

I always wondered how those engines performed and was always intrigued by the fact that the same base engine that in automotive applications only put out 350 HP stock could be reliably hopped up to 650 HP for marine usage.

It has been while,,,,,,,but do remember Mackpower division was able to get higher horsepower

in marine and industrial applications because the torque level is lower then road engines

pumping water or turning a generator doesn't require torque so dyno horsepower is impressive but torque is low

[rhasler]

Yeah, its truly a workhorse motor. 5 of us have one here in Hatteras and we put them to the test. I've beeb thousands of miles and hours on the ocean and hopefully due to PM and care she has not let me down yet. I do have the overhaul and service manual. I did drain the H2o yesterday after installing the new heat exchanger and it was a milky yellow color but still felt like water instead of oil. It dyed the water in a barrell I dumped it into, not oily surface, just colored the water. could this be residual oil from in the cooling system? If it starts to clean up after dumping it a few times, can I use some detergent to run through the system to clean it all out before I charge back with coolant? If oil remains though I do have a spare cooler to try next.

Sorry Im kind of ranting here but if there is oil, shouldn't I be losing it somewhere? and if it was from the motor, not the gear, wouldn't it be black instead of clean oil?

Engine oil will also turn a milky color when mixed with coolant and agitated. If the oil cooler has an o-ring that is leaking a small amount you may not notice oil loss. After finding the source, if any, of the contamination, you should be able to flush the cooling system with some type of detergent. We used to use Dawn dish soap quite a bit and it worked well enough, just had to make sure that the engine temperature got high enough for the thermostat to open so the soap could circulate through the whole system.

It has been while,,,,,,,but do remember Mackpower division was able to get higher horsepower

in marine and industrial applications because the torque level is lower then road engines

pumping water or turning a generator doesn't require torque so dyno horsepower is impressive but torque is low

It also gets higher RPMs (2300 no load rated speed). I was really talking more about the ability of the block to withstand the higher horsepower being generated. From what I can remember the block was the same as the automotive version (ie no additional reinforcements to prevent distortion of the cylinders), but I could be wrong about that.

[Rob]

It has been while,,,,,,,but do remember Mackpower division was able to get higher horsepower

in marine and industrial applications because the torque level is lower then road engines

pumping water or turning a generator doesn't require torque so dyno horsepower is impressive but torque is low

I've replace two snapped crankshafts in gensets due to torque loads applied electrically. It does take quite a bit of torque to spin up a rotor and there is quite a bit of reverse torque applied instantaneously when an electrical load is impressed. It is in no way linear in application.

Rob

[sea dog]

Engine oil will also turn a milky color when mixed with coolant and agitated. If the oil cooler has an o-ring that is leaking a small amount you may not notice oil loss. After finding the source, if any, of the contamination, you should be able to flush the cooling system with some type of detergent. We used to use Dawn dish soap quite a bit and it worked well enough, just had to make sure that the engine temperature got high enough for the thermostat to open so the soap could circulate through the whole system.

It also gets higher RPMs (2300 no load rated speed). I was really talking more about the ability of the block to withstand the higher horsepower being generated. From what I can remember the block was the same as the automotive version (ie no additional reinforcements to prevent distortion of the cylinders), but I could be wrong about that.

[sea dog]

Yeah that's right. She turns 2335 under load and properly wheeled. Thanks for the help. How much on the Dawn dish detergent and can I run her for a 12 hour day with the Dawn in it, or just long enough to get to temp and than drain and or flush?

[rhasler]

I wouldn't go too long with the soap in the system, probably an hour or two at the most. Even the commercial cooling system cleaning agents recommend a couple of passes.

[Rob]

I like to use Cascade dishwashing soap as it does not foam near as much as others. I would run two passes of two hours each, (this is what I do in trucks) and flush clean. Not to hijack or butt in but this is what I've done for years.

Rob

[rhasler]

Here's a bulletin explaining the flushing process. It's geared more towards more current engines but should still be applicable to your engine too.

Any chance of getting some pictures of that engine posted here?

SB 232-025 Cooling System Cleaning and Flushing All MACK Engines (Feb. 10,2009).pdf

[sea dog]

Again thanks for the help. I will post some pics as soon as I can. I drive the 160 foot car ferry for the state 94 hrs a week this week and than back on the commercial boat next week. I will do the work after hours and should have the pics soon. I hope the oil cooler is the problem and not a head gasket. I will let you guys know my progress.

[sea dog]

I can't get to the oil cooler change out until next Tuesday. My boys are fishing the boat this while week though. Am I risking more damage by still running the boat?

[rhasler]

You should probably check that you aren't getting any coolant/water into the engine oil. If you are definitely shut it down before it wipes out the bearings. Look for traces of milky residue on any part of the lube system that you can easily access like the oil fill cap or the top of the dipstick.

[sea dog]

Well the good news is the oil has cleared up with the cleaning out with detergent. I' m usually not that lucky and guess the oil has been in there for a while since the last time I had a problem with a clutch cooler. That would have also introduced oil into the coolant, correct? Anyhow, thanks again until next time and I will post some pics of the motor early next week.