What Were They Thinking?!?!

[GearheadGrrrl]

I think a lot of the problem is the limited experiences of Volvo's Euro executives. Speccing a truck for EC roads is pretty simple- with harmonization most of Europe has the same weight and dimension limits, with the exception of the Nordic countries. So Volvo can get away with offering variations on the F cab (FE,FL,FM.FH) with 4 different size Volvo engines. Sleepers are simple too- none, flat top, or high rise "Globetrotter" is pretty much it.

Here in the US the typical Mack customer is a small business that is making a major investment in a construction truck that will have to last a decade or more. With so much capital tied up in a truck, they have to be conservative- they can't afford to dump a lemon truck like a big corporation can. Is it no wonder that these customers were suspicious of the CH and kept buying Rs and DMs?

A "one size fits all" truck won't work here either. In my home state, Minnesota, weight is determined by bridge formula so you want lots of pusher and tag axles and a long wheelbase on your dump truck. But across the border in Wisconsin, you can carry about the same weight on 4 axles with a shorter wheelbase. Iowa is about identical to Minnesota. But South Dakota is more like the Austrailian outback, with no maximum weight limit, bridge formula, and as many axles as you can squeeze under the 81'-6" allowed length of the trailers. For South Dakota, something from Mack's OZ catalog would make sense- a tridem with a B train set would kick butt there! North Dakota is bridge formula capped at 105,500 pounds GCW, so the MP10 won't be needed. Michigan allows almost as much weight, but limits the axles to 11 and doesn't use bridge formula. Thusly the need for a lot of options so operators can spec their truck for the conditions they drive in instead of a few Swede executives's trucking fantasy world.

Which brings us back to cab design- consider the needs of, for example, a manufacturer of prefab housing sections that needs a sleeper cab tractor with enough beef to go off road to make deliveries. With proper cab design the same basic cab could serve that customer as well as the french florist who needs a 7.5 tonner from the local Renault dealer to deliver his wares.

But sticking a Volvo FH cab with a hood carrying a "Mack" emblem on a Cornerstone chassis ain't gonna cut it!

[mackboy]

mack 3 p do you now somthing more is there a new model to come out and can you tell us more

Good things come to those who wait.

[Mack 3P]

I was talking to an engineer in Sweden yesterday trying to explain that Mack is going to a different supplier because the one fleets who buys this particular option wants a different product. He had trouble understanding why we would have something different then the rest of the organization.

I know, but I can't tell. I've seen the replacement to the CL

[HK Trucking]

I was talking to an engineer in Sweden yesterday

And there is the root of the f'in problem.

Why do we need foreigners designing trucks for the US market.

Dammit, this pisses me off.

A once great name like Mack reduced to being a puppet of a foreign company.

WTF.

[Lmackattack]

I was talking to an engineer in Sweden yesterday trying to explain that Mack is going to a different supplier because the one fleets who buys this particular option wants a different product. He had trouble understanding why we would have something different then the rest of the organization.

I know, but I can't tell. I've seen the replacement to the CL

Thats intresting 3P. when will the news be released? I have been meaning to say thanks for taking the time to talk to us mack fans!! I think were all glad we have you here to give us first hand info from HQ... As all of us here have a deep love for these old dogs. On the otherhand I will have to agree with HK that it makes alot of us worried about Volvos ownership of Mack. Just like you said someone halfway across the pond can make decisions on a truck line that they have no past history with.. I hope you can voice the opinions of die hard mack owners to HQ for us.. I think the new Mack/Volvo engines will be just as good as any other mfg but I do worry about the cab and drivetrain options.

just my .02

Trent

[GearheadGrrrl]

Thanks for the hints 3P, and I suspect the replacement for the CL will look a lot like the Oz Macks. Certainly Volvo isn't going to let us have the new Volvo FH before Volvo NA gets it. And god forbid they give us the current Volvo conventional cab- it'd be pretty much a Volvo with Mack badges.

On the issue of the Swede's failure to understand why anyone would want something other than their favored component... Consider that Paccar's Pete and KW are doing quite well building trucks out of other company's parts. Of course their Euro brand, DAF, does quite well with a vertically integrated truck, but that's the Euro custom and it works there. Meanwhile, DCX tried to turn Freightliner into an integrated truck, and lost more money than Freightliner had made in their whole history in the process. DCX continues to persevere in trying to make Sterling a cheap vocational truck, Freightliner an over the road truck, and Western Star a premium vocational truck... But the customers keep ordering Sterlings with sleepers, Freighliner dump chassis, and Western Stars that would make a custom Pete look homely. Navistar despite doing a lot of stuff wrong is still here, and like Paccar has survived without a major carmaker to bail them out of their boondoggles.

As they used to say... "The customer is always right". Perhaps we need to translate that into Swedish?

[rainyday128]

Consider that Paccar's Pete and KW are doing quite well building trucks out of other company's parts.

Paccar to build $400M engine-making plant

Puget Sound Business Journal (Seattle) - 9:45 AM PST Wednesday

Paccar Inc. said it plans to build a $400 million plant in the Southeast United States to build engines for its Kenworth and Peterbilt trucks.

Construction on the 400,000-square-foot facility will begin later this year and should be completed in 2009, officials at the Bellevue-based truck maker (NASDAQ: PCAR) said in a statement. They didn't specify exactly where the plant would be built but said they're working with "several states."

"Offering a Paccar powertrain to our North American customers will provide additional choices in their vehicle specifications," said Jim Cardillo, executive vice president, in a statement.

Paccar now equips its Kenworth and Peterbilt trucks with engines made by either Cummins Inc. of Columbus, Ind., (NYSE: CMI) or Caterpillar Inc. of Peoria, Ill. (NYSE: CAT)

[mudslut28]

It sure would be nice to have a heavy-duty dump setup like the 800's back in the coalfields...but I guess the dumba$$'es in Sweden have never seen a coal mine or strip mine either. It's a niche' market which Mack owned and dominated for 40 years...now they just pull out and give a version of the Granite with 65k rears and a chicken crap frame...niceee!! Thanks Mack!

This is the same Volvo who got the brilliant idea to make the ol unbreakable 65k Mack (which is far and away the best and strongest rear end design EVER) housings thinner....hey guess what?? They BROKE!! What was the solution? Replace them with older housings.....how bout replacing the whole damn truck with an older one? Thats exactly what many of the small companies have done. In the end of the RD800 era the trucks were pushing the $150,000 mark ready to haul. They were still selling....yet they were done away with.....STUPID!!! We are still actively searching for and buying the 80's and 90's model Macks.

Hey Mack...why would you turn your back on your bread and butter? The Mack legend was born in the coalfields....

You sold us out!!!

[GearheadGrrrl]

The Paccar announcement is no surprise, given that they're slapped the Paccar name on DAF's newest engine. Interestingly, Cat's website is now featuring their truck transmissions as well as their engines. They last did that in the 1970s, and back then there were rumors that Cat was going to even build a whole truck. Could Cat be planning a counterattack? If Volvo/Mack gives up the Mayflower cab, Cat could easily pick it up or the Sterling cab if DCX gives it up, plop it on a Spicer frame with Cat engine, transmission, and axles= instant Cat truck!

[mackboy]

we must be glad that we have here a guy from mack like 3P i now that there are a lot of poeple from mack that work now in sweden have they no influence over there they are our eyes and ears they must listen to there custumers and let the swedish now what the custumers want believe it or not the swedish are selfwilled they always thit what they want to do i saw the new cl hood last year in mcungie at the plant it looks more like the axle back hood and than bigger and longer and for some poeple here volvo has its own iron mine in the nord of sweden its 500 mtr under the ground i believe they are selfsuporting for less than another 100 years only they use volvo products overthere i now some poeple how were there and it must be huge overthere i also posted the paccar articel on this board under modern truck relaited discusion it was a artical from fleetowner magazin thanks 3P for your good work and keep us informed