JOB SPEECH

[bullhusk]

" I just think a forced system people would cause people to rebell just do to the fact that it is forced."

That's why we have "Right to Work" states.

"We do have the skilled workers, we do have the incentive, we just need less government interference to do what we need to do."

That's how the people in South Carolina feel. To what country (not state) are the jobs going if PBO and the National Labor Relations Board don't allow Boeing to open in in South Carolina? You will never change the public's perception of unions as long as you have BS like this going on.

Agreed! BULLHUSK

[slpwlker]

I'll probally start a shit storm here. Being from a RIGHT TO WORK STATE. I never understood the unions.never been part of one and don't have any intentons to join one.Did they at one time have a purpose and do stuff yes. Then they got greedy. Look at all the municipalities. Those yo yo's do anything they can to get out of work ormilk it for all it is worth.Go to a port and it takes 4 people to do the job of 1. I loaded a forklift in Norfolk. 4 people came out. 1 driver and 3 people walking around doing nothing. In fact the master switch weas off and he called me from around my trailer to turn it on to which my reply was there are 3 people right there get them. sorry I am not your bitch. That got a less then enthusiastic response to which I could give a damn less. it should of only taken 1 ok 2 one to load and one as a spotter.

Look at the auto industry. They have bankrupted most of detroit. take take take and did not want to give. We wonder why foreign cars out sell us. they are cheaper,and have less baggage. The teachers union oh boy there is another one. Can't fire a usless teacher you got to keep them. Sorry if you do not perform or you do something you should be fired. no ands,ifs,or buts.

Did I serve no. My dad was a seabee and I heard mixed feelings and decided to not join. Do I wish I had yes. After 9/11 I really thought about it and if they had implemented the draft I would of done it just so I didn't take a chance and get called and not be able to go into a field I wanted to learn or know. Maybe if I had come from a union state it might be different for me. But I have not seen anything in Florida or any other right to work state that makes me think other wise.

ok my rant is over. let the games begin

[mowerman]

well i dont have much to add,,,you fellars about covered it,nice job guys,,,except,were the hell do we start,,this place has gotten so outa hand,,.lol.bob

[41chevy]

Hey Bob, You start in your own area and it will spread, Vote and change Washington.Be vocal on any thing thats hurts OUR country. If the points made are not taken than we advance to other options.

[220cummins]

That quote is taken out of context because it’s in reply to Rob's point. You probably would be thrown in jail just like the drafts used to be if you would revolt against a said law of mandatory military service. In the context of comparing non-right to work states if you don’t want to pay a miniscule amount in dues to have representation and a CBA then find else work for the same pay and benefits but that is very few and far. Right to work for less…That’s the bottom-line. I can't speak for others unions. I know how I work and how my particular union brothers and sisters work and it’s far from the situations you describe. I know from experience in Delphi plants how the UAW operated a few years ago and guess what those plants are gone. I had a conversation at one plant with one individual who said "they can't close us, were the most productive plant" my reply was “let me tell you something yes they can yes they will and I know this because it happened to steelworkers with that attitude.’ Bad work ethic and attitude gets you no where union or non-union. The point is unions still have a place today. They protect the safety of workers and provide a fair wage and benefits for members. We work without the old time safeguard of seniority. If you don’t work you get laid off. Unions or at least the local ones I can personally speak of, also protect the signatory contractors yes that’s right the companies, through a trust set up for bidding purposes. We work hand in hand with the understanding that hard work delivers fair wages and good benefits for our companies and families. I would rather pay my union for that support. Right to work states kill unions plain and simple. The union still has to be a representation for that non-member (not paying dues) working in a union facility or site. Who pays for the ENTITLEMENT there? The union. When that money runs out the union goes away. That’s what business wants because that affects the bottom-line. Low wages no benefits and 1099 classification. To me that cuts out the middle class. Everyone is entitled to they’re own opinion but unless you see the other end of the argument then you can't say it’s either this or that. I'm not blind to what happened in years past and it's changed or is continualy changing. I've also seen non-union shops I worked non-union. Let me tell you I've worked just as hard if not harder in the union and got rewarded better. I may be in the minority but times have changed and yes there is a place for unions in today's economy and yes it’s for the better. As I’ve stated in the past it’s hard to change the old ways and opinions of people towards yesterday’s unions.

[David]

Yesterday's unions are today's unions as long as you have forced membership, forced dues that end up as political contributions, unfit teachers that can't be fired, bailout money used to shore up pension funds, contracts that call for one member of six different unions to perform an eight hour task that one open shop guy could do by himself in four hours and the likes of James Hoffa saying "Take the SOB's out" when referring to fellow Americans and on and on. It's impossible to change the publics perception with this reality. Oh, Don't forget the Card Check Bill. I wonder why PBO isn't pushing that.

[mowerman]

Hey Bob, You start in your own area and it will spread, Vote and change Washington.Be vocal on any thing thats hurts OUR country. If the points made are not taken than we advance to other options.

ill take your advice,,,thanks,,boy ill tell you what its gotta start going up again,,this falling s---t gotta cease

[41chevy]

I have one more question. The NLRB is going head to head with Boeing for the S.Carolina factory. Now G.E. is opening a factory in China to to the preliminary manufacture of their jet engines and to help China's attempt to dominate the world air liner industry. The technology also has military uses.This agreement will move jobs from G.E.'s North Carolina plant oerseas. Aren't the Foundry and machinist jobs being taken from our people? Why isn't the NLRB going after them? Paul

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/18/business/global/18plane.html?pagewanted=al

[220cummins]

Yesterday's unions are today's unions as long as you have forced membership, forced dues that end up as political contributions, unfit teachers that can't be fired, bailout money used to shore up pension funds, contracts that call for one member of six different unions to perform an eight hour task that one open shop guy could do by himself in four hours and the likes of James Hoffa saying "Take the SOB's out" when referring to fellow Americans and on and on. It's impossible to change the publics perception with this reality. Oh, Don't forget the Card Check Bill. I wonder why PBO isn't pushing that.

Forced membership? Nothing is forced. If you don't pay your dues for all the benefits of representation then you suspend out and have to look for another job or pay to be reinstated. My dues are 15 dollars a month, that’s a tiny bit of money for a lot of benefits. I have the choice between which funds I can contribute to such as training fund, work procurement fund, and a PAC Fund. That’s less than your average person’s dinner bill at a restaurant. In a right to work state you don't have to pay that 15 dollars a month but the union has to represent you at their cost. Someone has to pay for it and eventually the union will slowly die. There is no bail out for pension fund as Fox Business reported. The legislation presented is not a “bail out” it separates out the employees of defunct firms and guarantees part of their benefits for retirees. The defunct firm’s non-contributions way down the otherwise solvent plans. The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation is not funded by general tax revenues it is funded by the sponsors of defined benefit plans. It has been around since 1974 and has paid benefits to retirees who have lost there pensions due to corporate raidings, bankruptcy decisions, bad investments (Bernie Madoff scheme). Recently the pension funds have had to carry a certain percentage of solvencies. They are a categorized by risk and regulated to make the proper changes to make the funds solvent again. This has all come about approximately when PBO took office. Unfit teachers... Yes there are unfit teachers not all are. Who defines them as unfit? You? Maybe one or two school board members who have a grudge because there little girl didn't make the cheerleading squad and the coach just happens to be this "unfit" teacher. Teachers have tenure. “Tenure is a form of job security for teachers who have successfully completed a probationary period. Its primary purpose is to protect competent teachers from arbitrary no renewal of contract for reasons unrelated to the educational process -- personal beliefs, personality conflicts with administrators or school board members.” Administrators like this one in the link- http://philadelphia....arge-race-bias/. You won't see that on fox news though because union was doing its job. Just like you won’t find any mention USW fighting against the use of lead and cadmium in kids toys and the use of Chinese steel and fabricators on the Oakland bay Bridge and the cost over runs derived from them….But you will hear snippets of Jimmy Hoffa's quote as reported as a terrorist against fellow Americans. Here’s the full quote "Everybody here’s got to vote. If we go back and keep the eye on the prize, let’s take these son of a bitches out and give America back to America where we belong! Thank you very much!" Initially it was reported this way by Fox but leave it to the un-BIASED people over there to backpedal against there own initial report and put a spin on it to boast rating and enrage tea partiers alike. The reality you speak of is not such when you have twist the facts to win ratings and push a certain political agenda. “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be can only be maintained only for such time as the state can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the state to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the moral enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the state” – Joseph Goebbels Nazi Propaganda Chief. Used in the context of Fox News it sums up a lot of there thinking and marketing. You can’t change perception of people who follow this kind of rhetoric. The rhetoric unions have preached about the shrinking of the middle class, shrinking of the manufacturing sector, and poverty rising is becoming fact…. Card check has been around since the inception of NLRB in 1935 and it’s been recognized along with secret ballot vote many times throughout history as a way to recognize a union. So my small investment of 15 dollars a month for dues to protect my rewards for my hard work is well worth it and I’m more than willing to pay for it.

[220cummins]

I have one more question. The NLRB is going head to head with Boeing for the S.Carolina factory. Now G.E. is opening a factory in China to to the preliminary manufacture of their jet engines and to help China's attempt to dominate the world air liner industry. The technology also has military uses.This agreement will move jobs from G.E.'s North Carolina plant oerseas. Aren't the Foundry and machinist jobs being taken from our people? Why isn't the NLRB going after them? Paul

http://www.nytimes.c...l?pagewanted=al

What about this as well?

http://www.npr.org/2011/09/16/140515737/california-turns-to-china-for-new-bay-bridge

and the follow up

http://www.americanmanufacturing.org/blog/npr-gets-it-wrong-oakland-bay-bridge-story

[mowerman]

I'll probally start a shit storm here. Being from a RIGHT TO WORK STATE. I never understood the unions.never been part of one and don't have any intentons to join one.Did they at one time have a purpose and do stuff yes. Then they got greedy. Look at all the municipalities. Those yo yo's do anything they can to get out of work ormilk it for all it is worth.Go to a port and it takes 4 people to do the job of 1. I loaded a forklift in Norfolk. 4 people came out. 1 driver and 3 people walking around doing nothing. In fact the master switch weas off and he called me from around my trailer to turn it on to which my reply was there are 3 people right there get them. sorry I am not your bitch. That got a less then enthusiastic response to which I could give a damn less. it should of only taken 1 ok 2 one to load and one as a spotter.

Look at the auto industry. They have bankrupted most of detroit. take take take and did not want to give. We wonder why foreign cars out sell us. they are cheaper,and have less baggage. The teachers union oh boy there is another one. Can't fire a usless teacher you got to keep them. Sorry if you do not perform or you do something you should be fired. no ands,ifs,or buts.

Did I serve no. My dad was a seabee and I heard mixed feelings and decided to not join. Do I wish I had yes. After 9/11 I really thought about it and if they had implemented the draft I would of done it just so I didn't take a chance and get called and not be able to go into a field I wanted to learn or know. Maybe if I had come from a union state it might be different for me. But I have not seen anything in Florida or any other right to work state that makes me think other wise.

ok my rant is over. let the games begin

heh i can appreciate your complaint,,,its tough to try to work with them,,your pretty screwed,if your not one of them,ive also dealt with the harbor,,trying to get cans out,,its a real bitch,,but ill tell you,,,coming from an ex teamster,,cant beat it babba,,especially that big pention you get,3,500,a month,who else is gonna give you that,,,everyone should be a teamster,,wish i still was,,here i am 55 years old,and loading trucks,,that wouldnt happen if we were union...reagan,and that f-------n deregulation bill killed this industy,,wasnt the union,,although everone likes to blame them,,on topa that,,you know this whole country,has turned into a cut throat dog eat dog place...when my dad retired from the teamsters,,he got a nice gold watch,and a big pention to live on 35 years ago,,but when i retire,,ill be lucky to get a big shoe up the ass,,,since delegulation drove all the good union outfits outta bussiness,,,all we got now is a buncha ballbusting company,s left,that expect everthing free...sincerely bob lol

[bullhusk]

heh i can appreciate your complaint,,,its tough to try to work with them,,your pretty screwed,if your not one of them,ive also dealt with the harbor,,trying to get cans out,,its a real bitch,,but ill tell you,,,coming from an ex teamster,,cant beat it babba,,especially that big pention you get,3,500,a month,who else is gonna give you that,,,everyone should be a teamster,,wish i still was,,here i am 55 years old,and loading trucks,,that wouldnt happen if we were union...reagan,and that f-------n deregulation bill killed this industy,,wasnt the union,,although everone likes to blame them,,on topa that,,you know this whole country,has turned into a cut throat dog eat dog place...when my dad retired from the teamsters,,he got a nice gold watch,and a big pention to live on 35 years ago,,but when i retire,,ill be lucky to get a big shoe up the ass,,,since delegulation drove all the good union outfits outta bussiness,,,all we got now is a buncha ballbusting company,s left,that expect everthing free...sincerely bob lol

bob, Don't jump ship so fast! I've been a Teamster fo 40 years, I will not get the pention I thought I was going to get!..Why?? The union pention fund is broke!! just like our country!! So if you are workin A non-union job? Get your own pention plan an pay into it yourself, this way you are NOT payin for your Busn, Agent an the big ass car he's drivin,and if you do belong to a union?? opt-out of there plan an get your own if you can, trust me on this one bob! Thats another reason why a company today does not wat to pay into the Teamster pention fund, cause the money is not goin to the workers! Not all Local's are broke, if you are in one thats not you are a lucky guy

BULLHUSK

[mowerman]

bob, Don't jump ship so fast! I've been a Teamster fo 40 years, I will not get the pention I thought I was going to get!..Why?? The union pention fund is broke!! just like our country!! So if you are workin A non-union job? Get your own pention plan an pay into it yourself, this way you are NOT payin for your Busn, Agent an the big ass car he's drivin,and if you do belong to a union?? opt-out of there plan an get your own if you can, trust me on this one bob! Thats another reason why a company today does not wat to pay into the Teamster pention fund, cause the money is not goin to the workers! Not all Local's are broke, if you are in one thats not you are a lucky guy

BULLHUSK

oh,,brother,,,well thier go,s that logic...ya we have a 401,,and a company pention,,,but im sure when i try to collect it,,will be birdfood,lol.i was only teamsters from 72-80,,but it was excellant,,,now im just a slave to these b------rds,,with the recetion they got rid of our fuelers,yard hostlers,and our dock hands,,now we gotta do it all...well i still thank god i have a job,,,thanks for the tidbit,,,by the way how you feeling,,,im getting back in the groove,,still rough staying up all nite,,and trying to sleep in the day,,,that 6 months of sleeping all nite like everyone else,was awfully nice.lol bob

[bullhusk]

oh,,brother,,,well thier go,s that logic...ya we have a 401,,and a company pention,,,but im sure when i try to collect it,,will be birdfood,lol.i was only teamsters from 72-80,,but it was excellant,,,now im just a slave to these b------rds,,with the recetion they got rid of our fuelers,yard hostlers,and our dock hands,,now we gotta do it all...well i still thank god i have a job,,,thanks for the tidbit,,,by the way how you feeling,,,im getting back in the groove,,still rough staying up all nite,,and trying to sleep in the day,,,that 6 months of sleeping all nite like everyone else,was awfully nice.lol bob

I went under the knife yesterday morning, home today an all is well so far! I just hope I could put the summer of 2011 behind me an move on!!

BULLHUSK

[41chevy]

Back to the begining of this thread. The problem I had / have with the presidents job speech is the same problem I had with Bill Clinton putting more law enforcement and firemen on the streets and Bush added security / law enforcement after 9/11. When the funding to create the jobs and salaries runs out, our taxes go up to pay for them....on top of the taxes added to pay for the creation of the programs or else the programs end and the jobs vanish from lack of funding.

The other problem at least here in N.Y. is we have teachers who because of "difficulties" are not allowed to teach. They are paid their salaries not to have contact with children. A neighbor was a postal worker in a mail processing facility who is retired on 100% disability because he is "allergic" to paper dust. My cousin a retired town worker (CSEA) who retired on 3/4 pay as disabled because he's an incurable alcoholic. When does it end? I agree, that if you do well at your job you deserve to be compensated well. How than, can any organization get it's members rewarded for screwing up? Nuff said.

Now I'm going back to welding up my chassis cracks on my AC. Paul

[shortstack]

Paul, I agree with you 100%. Problem is both parties have screwed up but the can has been kicked down the road too long. It's time to fix it and blaming everyone else isn't getting anything done. Most of the programs started with good intentions but they are no longer sustainable and no one wants to give up their benefits. Trey

[220cummins]

Paul, I agree with you 100%. Problem is both parties have screwed up but the can has been kicked down the road too long. It's time to fix it and blaming everyone else isn't getting anything done. Most of the programs started with good intentions but they are no longer sustainable and no one wants to give up their benefits. Trey

Exactly my point entirely enough with the finger pointing because everyone is equally as guilty. We know the problems we just need a solution and it's gonna hurt everyone but one has to die on either side and by die I mean it as a metaphor.

[41chevy]

Paul, I agree with you 100%. Problem is both parties have screwed up but the can has been kicked down the road too long. It's time to fix it and blaming everyone else isn't getting anything done. Most of the programs started with good intentions but they are no longer sustainable and no one wants to give up their benefits. Trey

That the entire problem as my little brain sees it. 1) Nobody takes any responsibility for any of it,,,no one, 2)nobody listens to the people in the pits and 3) too many "I owe this person or group for my election" or I want things this way . Stop putting blame on the guy behind you or putting it into the future for somebody else to deal with, be the person who runs the show, be strong, be a leader of the people NOT a stooge for some corporation, foreign country or environmental group because of the $$$. Just be an American. Paul

[mowerman]

I went under the knife yesterday morning, home today an all is well so far! I just hope I could put the summer of 2011 behind me an move on!!

BULLHUSK

well best of luck to ya,,parter,,hope your up in running soon..bob

[mowerman]

I'll probally start a shit storm here. Being from a RIGHT TO WORK STATE. I never understood the unions.never been part of one and don't have any intentons to join one.Did they at one time have a purpose and do stuff yes. Then they got greedy. Look at all the municipalities. Those yo yo's do anything they can to get out of work ormilk it for all it is worth.Go to a port and it takes 4 people to do the job of 1. I loaded a forklift in Norfolk. 4 people came out. 1 driver and 3 people walking around doing nothing. In fact the master switch weas off and he called me from around my trailer to turn it on to which my reply was there are 3 people right there get them. sorry I am not your bitch. That got a less then enthusiastic response to which I could give a damn less. it should of only taken 1 ok 2 one to load and one as a spotter.

Look at the auto industry. They have bankrupted most of detroit. take take take and did not want to give. We wonder why foreign cars out sell us. they are cheaper,and have less baggage. The teachers union oh boy there is another one. Can't fire a usless teacher you got to keep them. Sorry if you do not perform or you do something you should be fired. no ands,ifs,or buts.

Did I serve no. My dad was a seabee and I heard mixed feelings and decided to not join. Do I wish I had yes. After 9/11 I really thought about it and if they had implemented the draft I would of done it just so I didn't take a chance and get called and not be able to go into a field I wanted to learn or know. Maybe if I had come from a union state it might be different for me. But I have not seen anything in Florida or any other right to work state that makes me think other wise.

ok my rant is over. let the games begin

just wanted to add to this,,,nowdays the union doesnt wanna budge on thier negotiations,,thier still acting like the country is booming,and that is BS,,everyone has to take part in cutting back nowdays,,the party,s over...and yes i do strongly agree with you,,that there is indeed alotta dead weight,in those cushy jobs,that needs to go..if you dont wanna work,,thiers the door,,its as simple as that...in an era where the country is in the toilet,,thier still demanding more and more...i know half these punks had to do a real job,,they would be lost.lol.....scab labor.bob.lol

[RowdyRebel]

Not all unions are created equal...and even today, there ARE benefits to union membership...in some cases.

My dad was a union bricklayer until he screwed up his back, and my mom's dad was a union carpenter until his heart attack sent him into early retirement. In each of those cases, they worked for whatever contractors had work to be done. They might have worked for one contractor for 3 months until that job was completed...then work for the next contractor for 2 months...then the next one for 6 weeks...and the next one for 6 months. If they had to rely upon the contractors for their health insurance, etc., they would never see any "benefits" because they rarely worked for the same contractor long enough for even the health insurance to kick in. So, they got their insurance through the union. The union hall was also where they would go to see what contractors had jobs going requiring workers, and the contractors would go to the union hall to find qualified workers who already knew the job and didn't require training....job placement service, so to speak.

My dad NEVER went on strike. He also never crossed a picket line. He had a family to feed, though, so if the union was planning to picket a job he was working, he'd show up early before the picket line formed and take his lunch in with him...and he'd work until the picketers went home.

Grandma talked grandpa out of voting as the union bosses wanted him to. She went through all of the candidates...asking him who the union was telling him to vote for, and then going over that candidates positions on the issues, and grandpa came to realize that the union was asking him to vote for the candidates who did not even remotely reflect his own values.

Now my other grandpa....dad's dad....he was a Teamster and went along with whatever the union wanted him to do.

I really don't see the point of being in a union if I'm punching the same time clock for the same employer for 20-30 years. However, in the case of certain skilled trades, union membership has it's benefits....insurance, job placement, etc...

[David]

Here's some references for ya.....................

http://washingtonexaminer.com/special-reports/2009/04/obama-s-labor-department-quashes-union-financial-reports

http://nlpc.org/stories/2009/04/30/labor-department-rescinds-revised-lm-2-and-lm-30-rules-invites-potential-corrupti