Natural Gas power?

[bullhusk]

I've been thinking about converting one of my older 12.7 Detroit's to Natural gas, I've kicking this around now for about a year or so? I got a chance to look at a NJTA NG powered bus one day an got to thinkin why not? It burns clean, and I don't think we would need all of this new EPA stuff on the motor, and it is cheaper then diesel, we have enough of it in our Country for the next 300 years! So i guess the big question is.....Why are we not pushing for this? So I turn to you guys on the site for your thoughts an ideas an anything else that comes to mind.

BULLHUSK

[hatcity]

I think right now, it all depends on the application. Local trucks (garbage trucks mostly) since they always return at nite can be refueled. The overall infrastructure for LNG is not there yet.

Just how much capacity can you safely have on a truck? What modifications would be needed? Cost? What kind of mpg are they getting?

[bullhusk]

I think right now, it all depends on the application. Local trucks (garbage trucks mostly) since they always return at nite can be refueled. The overall infrastructure for LNG is not there yet.

Just how much capacity can you safely have on a truck? What modifications would be needed? Cost? What kind of mpg are they getting?

hatcity, The bus has the fuel tanks mounted in the roof. the mpg. I'm told is better then diesel, but I don't have any info on paper about it. One of the bus drivers I talked to said the RPM are quicker an the power is better then the diesel power, again this is one driver an also we are talking about a bus and an automatic trans!

Has anyone out there driven a truck or bus powered NG veh.

[ThaddeusW]

I've been thinking about converting one of my older 12.7 Detroit's to Natural gas, I've kicking this around now for about a year or so? I got a chance to look at a NJTA NG powered bus one day an got to thinkin why not? It burns clean, and I don't think we would need all of this new EPA stuff on the motor, and it is cheaper then diesel, we have enough of it in our Country for the next 300 years! So i guess the big question is.....Why are we not pushing for this? So I turn to you guys on the site for your thoughts an ideas an anything else that comes to mind.

BULLHUSK

Diesels don't have the compression required to bring the NG up to its auto ignition temperature. I know in order to get alcohol to burn in a diesel, the compression has to be raised to something like 30:1 or more, a huge amount of pressure. There are/were engines from CAT that were hybrid engines, they ran on diesel but used propane or NG injection right into the intake manifold and used a bit of diesel to kick start the combustion. I remember ratios of around 85/15 gas to diesel fuel ratios were possible. If you ran out of gaseous fuel the engine just switched to full diesel.

[David]

Waste Mgt has been running NG Macks in California for about ten years now.

[rhasler]

The E7 engine was converted to run on natural gas.

[bullhusk]

Diesels don't have the compression required to bring the NG up to its auto ignition temperature. I know in order to get alcohol to burn in a diesel, the compression has to be raised to something like 30:1 or more, a huge amount of pressure. There are/were engines from CAT that were hybrid engines, they ran on diesel but used propane or NG injection right into the intake manifold and used a bit of diesel to kick start the combustion. I remember ratios of around 85/15 gas to diesel fuel ratios were possible. If you ran out of gaseous fuel the engine just switched to full diesel.

ThaddeusW, I think the one that I saw had a magneto plug wires an spark plugs, It's been some time ago, but I could swear the engine was retroed with big spark plugs an a mag.? I'll call my Detroit rep tomorrow an ask him, maybe thats the way the first ones were?

[Rob]

I have an 855 Cummins that runs on NG at work. It is not turbocharged but is connected to a 400kw generator. Loud SOB too. Where the heads are normally bored for injectors, this one has spark plugs and a magneto where the injection pump normally is.

[bullhusk]

I have an 855 Cummins that runs on NG at work. It is not turbocharged but is connected to a 400kw generator. Loud SOB too. Where the heads are normally bored for injectors, this one has spark plugs and a magneto where the injection pump normally is.

rob, yes I'm sure thats what I saw on the series 60-DD

Ernie DS

[vision386]

I knew i had seen this set-up before as well,not in a truck but a stationary engine/generator..................................Mark

[miro]

About 15 years ago Cummins came out with an L10g Natural Gas engine in Orion busses. It was a disaster in that they kept burning valves. The engine was an L10, the injector tubes were threaded, the mixer was where the pump normally mounted and it had electronic ignition. Also the turbo was water cooled. Cummins could never figure out the problem and they all dissapeared in the early 2000's The new Westport engines have direct gas and diesel injection and are using LNG with out the huge gas tanks on the roof.

[HeavyGunner]

I dont know much about NG in a truck but I do know most if not all of the NG compressor motors that push the gas from the country to the refinery plants and cities are Cat motors. My bosses uncle is the highly desired Cat NG mechanic around here, ND, SD and he was telling us one day that the Cat NG motors had over 99% out of the 100% run time if that makes sense. Dont know if that helps or not.

HG

[ducky698]

Hi, all hope all is well over there. this subject I can actually help a a little. Down here in Oz there are many companies running trucks and ROAD TRAINS on LNG and its very successful

http://www.mitchellcorp.com.au/news?id=17

this company is in Perth and haul some massive weight and are using LNG on most of there vehicles.

cars are also run on it, my own vehicle is set up with it and sure you get some issues, but its worth using.

Grant

[bullhusk]

Hi, all hope all is well over there. this subject I can actually help a a little. Down here in Oz there are many companies running trucks and ROAD TRAINS on LNG and its very successful

http://www.mitchellcorp.com.au/news?id=17

this company is in Perth and haul some massive weight and are using LNG on most of there vehicles.

cars are also run on it, my own vehicle is set up with it and sure you get some issues, but its worth using.

Grant

Grant,

That was awesome news! Who would have thought someone down/under with big Cat motors were

running LNG trucks! Look I know It's gona cost aome $$$$$ to convert or find a motor (LG ready)

an plop it into the 93 Pete that I want to do this with, but it just might just be worth a shot?

Right now I'm doing a lot of Cement hauling into upper western PA were they are drilling and

fracking for Natural Gas, an I was thinking of sending a letter off to one of these big guys

(International Corp's) who are the General Contractors, an to see if they would be intrested in

sending me a NG Demo. tractor to use an to monitor over a years time, an see just how the NG

powered truck does alongside the diesel powered tractor? Hey It's worth a shot, all they can do

is aay NO!

BULLHUSK

[ducky698]

Hi, why dont you come down under and take a ride in a triple or one of the quads with the LNG,

http://www.ngvglobal.com/new-lng-supply-new-lng-brand-for-australian-hd-vehicles-0506

Grant

[Truck1536]

Ernie, Do you deliver to Ferrara Bros in NYC? They added 2 CNG Kenworths this past year. Maybe they could give you some helpful feedback. Here is an article about the trucks from McNeilus's site: http://www.mcneilusconcrete.com/News.Releases.html?PressReleaseId=d8a3db9f-564d-44a2-b64c-adb90524fef2

John

[bullhusk]

Ernie, Do you deliver to Ferrara Bros in NYC? They added 2 CNG Kenworths this past year. Maybe they could give you some helpful feedback. Here is an article about the trucks from McNeilus's site: http://www.mcneilusconcrete.com/News.Releases.html?PressReleaseId=d8a3db9f-564d-44a2-b64c-adb90524fef2

John,

Yes, we do deliver to him sometimes when he gets cement out of the valley in PA. I did not know about the NG-KW's that he is running, but I checked your news release an and I sure hope what he is doing catches on an we could start seeing more of NG powered trucks on the road!!

Thank You for the info!! Ernie DS

John

[hatcity]

I LOVE the smell of diesel in the morning

[41chevy]

Me too. Any ways Momma don't like the smell of natural gas in the morning. Always yells at me for doing it too. Paul

[mackcl96]

Seen some bed trucks and others advertised as CNG a few different times in truck paper http://www.truckpape...px?OHID=2690877&

Westport seems to be ready http://www.westport.com/

Chesapeake Energy seems to be ready for infrastructure

Chesapeake Energy Corporation's $150 million partnership with Clean Energy Fuels Corp. will help create a Natural Gas Highway system across America. It will lower transportation fuel costs dramatically and transform a trucking industry that remains an indispensible conduit of our nation's commerce.

Chesapeake's investment will underwrite approximately 150 LNG (liquefied natural gas) fueling stations, increasing by more than tenfold the number of publicly accessible stations and providing heavy-duty trucks ready access to cleaner and more affordable American natural gas along major interstate highways.

Currently priced significantly less than diesel or gasoline, American natural gas produces up to 30% lower greenhouse gas emissions in light-duty vehicles and 23% lower emissions in medium to heavy-duty vehicles. According to EPA data, replacing just 10% of diesel engines used in heavy-duty transportation with clean-burning natural gas engines could cut nitrogen oxide emissions (NOx) by as much as 200,000 tons per year, reducing air pollution and helping protect public health.

Clean Energy is the largest provider of natural gas fuel for transportation in North America and a global leader in the expanding natural gas vehicle market. Together, we're doing the work to save American consumers an estimated $1.50 – $2.00 a gallon on conventional gasoline and diesel.

Our country deserves a cleaner, more affordable fuel – made by and for Americans

http://www.chk.com/i...dependence.html

[bullhusk]

Seen some bed trucks and others advertised as CNG a few different times in truck paper http://www.truckpape...px?OHID=2690877&

Westport seems to be ready http://www.westport.com/

Chesapeake Energy seems to be ready for infrastructure

Chesapeake Energy Corporation's $150 million partnership with Clean Energy Fuels Corp. will help create a Natural Gas Highway system across America. It will lower transportation fuel costs dramatically and transform a trucking industry that remains an indispensible conduit of our nation's commerce.

Chesapeake's investment will underwrite approximately 150 LNG (liquefied natural gas) fueling stations, increasing by more than tenfold the number of publicly accessible stations and providing heavy-duty trucks ready access to cleaner and more affordable American natural gas along major interstate highways.

Currently priced significantly less than diesel or gasoline, American natural gas produces up to 30% lower greenhouse gas emissions in light-duty vehicles and 23% lower emissions in medium to heavy-duty vehicles. According to EPA data, replacing just 10% of diesel engines used in heavy-duty transportation with clean-burning natural gas engines could cut nitrogen oxide emissions (NOx) by as much as 200,000 tons per year, reducing air pollution and helping protect public health.

Clean Energy is the largest provider of natural gas fuel for transportation in North America and a global leader in the expanding natural gas vehicle market. Together, we're doing the work to save American consumers an estimated $1.50 – $2.00 a gallon on conventional gasoline and diesel.

Our country deserves a cleaner, more affordable fuel – made by and for Americans

http://www.chk.com/i...dependence.html

This is all good news! (I think so anyway LOL) I have been kicking this around, and would like to start using NG trucks in my fleet. You know the State has to figure out how to get ther Road Use Tax out of it! I've been warned about it already!

BULLHUSK

[mackcl96]

IFTA has shown a tax rate on the CNG (and any other type of fuel you would like to burn) for each state,, for years now,,, You not going to catch them off gard..... PA you are taxed at the pump but CNG you have to use the tax rate to pay your tax quarterly but if the infrastructure is developed in Pa it will be taxed at the pump

All this will happen,,, when our government gets out of bed with OPEC