Is Volvo Good Or Bad For Mack Trucks?

[Barry]

Do you think Volvo's purchase of Mack Trucks a good thing or do you think Volvo will end up destroying the Mack Brand? Lets hear your thoughts on this subject, but please...keep it civil!

[HK Trucking]

but please...keep it civil!

That may be impossible, but I'll try.

As I've said before in numerous other posts, Volvo will more than likely do to Mack what they did to Autocar & White/GMC.

'Nuff said.

[QCDriver]

^^^Agreed^^^

[Lmackattack]

I think Volvos ownership will keep the Mack name alive but thats not always a good thing, If they continue to make poor decisions like removeing mack parts in favor of off breed componets or rebadged volvo componets no one will think of a mack as a tuff truck. The trucking industry is known for slow change as most owners dont want something unproven on there truck. the only saving grace is if Volvo keeps the mack drivetrain seprate from Volvos and increases the options on Macks. Mack is a work horse but in todays market we need more options for owners. Many owners think a 400hp engine is the min for over the road. Its sad that many Lowboy trucks and heavy haulers wont even look at a mack anymore and that needs to change. there is a reason why people liked there R models and would rather have an old truck than a new one that has electrical issues. If Volvo can get more options and intrest towards macks than I think we have a chance...

Time will tell

Regardless my 78' RS wont stop till the wheels come off!!

[mudslut28]

Amen Lmack. When I bought my last truck it had to be no newer than a 97 model. That should speak volumes. My only prob with the one I bought is the Eaton/Fuller 8LL which I think has weak wrote all over it. Maybe it will prove me wrong but I cant figure out why anyone would ever use 2 countershafts when you could have 3 and completely eliminate the need for that tranny pump and all those lines and coolers. Theres nothing like the simplicity and the dependability of the time tested Mack components. I will give them props on the Granite cabs...but they can keep the rest.....especially that pos motor.

[Firemack]

Mack was always known for tough trucks and Mack over-built the components and offered a complete all MACK truck which was able to withstand the toughest on road- off road and overload conditions that are common in the construction and oil field industries. When the other manufacturers of over the road trucks offered cheaper component-built trucks- many companies and individuals bought them because they would work as over the road trucks. Mack did not really offer an over the road truck or compete in the over the road truck market until late in the R model series and then the CL model came out- and they finally offered a component built truck by offering non Mack components to be competitive in that market.

For Mack to continue to develop new technologies and stay in business they need to sell enough trucks to offset the cost of all the new engineering and manufacturing costs- if they can spread that cost over more trucks (with Volvo) then they should be competitive and sell more trucks- and take a bigger piece of the heavy (class 8) truck market. However the primary concern is that most traditional Mack customers still want a true Mack-All Mack truck- which Volvo corporate needs to understand and make available to those customers who want to order ALL MACK trucks- as well as offer the Mack trucks with Cummins- Detroit and other drivetrain components to stay price competitive in the over the road marketplace- that does not need or demand the Mack durability for off road-on road and construction/oil field type service.

So- Mack needs Volvo to help with the engineering and develoment costs to keep Mack competitive and Volvo needs Mack and the Mack nameplate and market share- and we all hope will keep offering an All Mack truck as well as price competitive Mack with other drive train components.

Let's hope Volvo listens to the Mack customers and understands that they need to keep both the Mack and Volvo trucks available. Barry thanks for keeping this site going so Volvo and Mack corporate can check in on what the customer's really need and want in a new MACK truck.

[ThaddeusW]

Volvo I bet wont kill the Mack name like they did Autocar/White. Mack has a much bigger name and following. They will however, continue to eviscerate the trucks components.

M-Ride is their way of testing the waters to see if they can kill camel back. It is lighter From the brochure I read a while back and will be offered on the MR and LE. If its a success and more owners want that setup them bam the bean counters axe camelback.

Next is the cab, replaced with a Volvo cab, yea maybe safer and nice in its own way but it aint Mack.

The axles might be spared, European axles are heavy because of their more lax weight laws, but they are strong.

Then comes the maxitorque, I think the transmissions might be spared but time will tell with the push to go auto, Volvo has their own autos, Mack does not. Why automate the Mack when you got your own autos?

After that gloomy scenario has taken place, we will see a slash across the grille, the final nail in the Mack coffin. Maybe the bulldogs on those trucks will have little rusty tears on them as they weep for a bygone era. Sad eh? I keep hoping this scenario doesn't play out, but it sure don't look good.

[rsmartyn]

Sad to say that although they'll probably keep the name, Mack quality and toughness (which is where the reputation came from) has already suffered. It appears Volvo bought the company for the dealership network and to eliminate competition (remember White/Autocar/GMC?). Autocars were at one time incredibly tough durible vocation trucks that Volvo turned into a whimpy girlie truck and then eliminated. At least when Mack had Brockway they kept building and improved a great brand known for toughness that could make you money. A few years ago I was pulled over with my B model by a trooper looking for red fuel. He summed up what has happened very well when he remarked about the age of the "B" still working, looking good and making money compared to his new patrol car - "Our parents sure built things better than we do, look at this car, brand new and it's falling apart, what a piece of s##t!". So it is going, that in the name of lighter weight, more speed and government regulations Mack is becoming like it's competitors thanks to Volvo, a throwaway truck that the bean counters like, zoom zoom zoom and then in the crusher for whatever isn't made of plastic. I just wish that so many older trucks weren't exported where they'll be working for years to come unlike the plastic throwaways we've got here. Bob

[GearheadGrrrl]

When the Volvo+Renault(+Mack) merger was first proposed, It seemed to me like a marriage made in heaven. I bought a few shares of Volvo, which have since more than tripled in value. In fact, if one had bought $100,000 in Volvo stock back then instead of spending $100,000 on a Volvo Integral Sleeper, you would have made more money. Then again, if you'd spent that $100,000 on a Mack, you might not have made as much money as you would have on Volvo stock, but you'd still have a great Mack truck!

In their scandinavian isolation Volvo top management doesn't understand Mack. They sorta understand Renault as a low price model line they need to keep, and maybe the source of a lot of historic pride in francaphone markets. They seem to view Mack as the odd old father in law that they got in the marriage, the one who spends all his time back in the shop perfecting his old truck. They forget that it's that old Mack that builds and plows the smooth roads their Volvo's run on.

Thusly we find that in Mack's natural markets like developing third world countries Volvo is trying to pitch their cabovers which are largely unsuited for those environments. One especially notices this in the middle east, where old Mack, Mercedes, and even Berleit conventionals seem to soldier on forever. This is the market where a Granite with the parts availability of a Volvo engine would kick butt, and could easily be sold and supported by the Volvo dealers. But Noooo... the best they can hope for is a Brazilian style Volvo conventional.

So I'm tempted to start dumping my Volvo stock- if nothing else it's gone up to the point where it's too big a chunk of my portfolio and screwing up my diversification. And deep down I get the gut feeling that Volvo has lost touch with their customers.

[Joe Ditchkus]

I do not think it is good for Mack to be continually integrated with Volvo parts a few more every year. Also many people are under the assumption that Mack was only interestedin construction trucks until the R Model. They always made trucks for General Freight since the AC Bulldog look at the original B Models from the 30's the A,L B,H,G,W,F and others they were made for Highway use.Go to any truck show and you will see all the great road trucks that Mack built.In fact most of the Macks at Macungie are old road trucks single axle and a few tandems. There road trucks were just as tough as the construction models,I had both and was happy with them.

[granitefan713]

I look at it this way, (and please forgive me if someone already said this, but I did't have time to read all the replies), Volvo bought Mack for their powertrain and theres nothing we can do about it, unless we all group together and buy all of Volvo's stock. We just have to continue to show our support for Mack inorder to show Volvo how much we value the Mack name and what it stands for here in America. Hopefully Volvo will or does know this and won't drive Mack into the ground as they did Autocar and White/Gmc. All we can do is hope...and pray.

[Coalbucket]

Volvo bought Mack for their powertrain

Point One Volvo has no interest in an engine with 18" pushrods. Lets face it our engine was originally from the 1930's and the new emission technologies need a modern platform.

Point Two that everybody forgets, White Motor Inc who owned Autocar and Western Star went bankrupt all by themselves. White over-invested in NRV and Road Boss II and Road Commander II and Expeditor all at the same time. Then they lost Freightliner's revenue and then filed Chapter 11. They continued operations in bankruptcy but sold poor quality trucks with no parts backup. The courts gave Western Star to the Canadians and Volvo bought a broken company with a product line with a tarnished image and a broken dealer network.

Point Three they are building all their trucks and all their engines for North America as well as all Mack trucks and Mack engines in the United States. You can't say that for International, Freightliner, or even PACCAR.

[GearheadGrrrl]

Full year figures aren't in yet, but it looks like Mack slightly outsold Volvo in the U.S. market last year. Perhaps Volvo should take a few lessons from Mack instead of trying to slowly euthanise the bulldog?

[Diesel Brad]

I have some questions regarding this subject :

- Did Renault help/hurt Mack when they owned them ?

- Would Mack have sunk if it werent for Volvo ?

[kevin mccune]

What we sometimes overlook is- the very qualities that create sucess{longetivity,quality,good service,ease of repalr.strength} tend to keep us from frequent purchases of new products & most companies are in business to sale new products, times change.Besides given the popularity of Macks,some aftermarket companies will continue the parts for a long time-as was the case with the 8N Ford tractors-Kevin

[granitefan713]

This may be slightly off topic, but when Volvo owned part of Blue Bird buses, they actually hepled Blue Bird design a better Vision (Blue Birds convetional bus).

This was Blue Birds design (2003-2007): http://c.myspace.com/Groups/00015/30/90/15740903_l.jpg

And this was Volvo's (2008): http://c.myspace.com/Groups/00019/32/98/19208923_l.jpg

[GearheadGrrrl]

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that Volvo is making a fatal error if they turn Mack into a "badge engineered" Volvo.

When they sold of the car division, Volvo pretty much lost control of the Volvo brand. Granted, Volvo has a long and honorable history, attested to by those 2,000,000+ mile 1960s Volvo cars still running around. But when people think of Mack today they think of the boxy badge engineered Fords, VWs, and Mitsubushi that Ford is now pimping off. Given a chance, and pretty likely given their current financial state, Volvo cars will end up being another Mercury division. That's not the kind of brand you want on a premium truck.

Mack is a billion dollar brand. Literally, they could quit building trucks entirely and make billions just peddling Mack clothing, etc.. Heck, they could end of looking like a Harley dealership. The Mack brand has worldwide equity that the Volvo brand can't match, and Volvo controls the Mack brand. Thusly trying to build up the Volvo brand is a lost cause, and Volvo management should let Volvo trucks be cheap and cheerful mass produced integral sleepers and day cabs that do battle in the price wars with International, Sterling, and Freightliner. Heck, maybe they should even rename it White, the standard color of big fleets that buy on low bid and specify white paint so they only have to change the decals after their next Wall Street merger/acquistition/divestiture.

Mack should be a premium truck in every sense of the word, built to be the best and never built down to a price. Mack should have a full model line, including over the road trucks as well as conventionals and cabovers. In every measure, Mack should put Kenworthless, Peterbull, and Wasted Star to shame. Macks should be custom built to the customer's taste, not the fantasies of some Swedish engineers. And should push come to shove, the Volvo brand should disappear and Mack survive.

[HK Trucking]

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that Volvo is making a fatal error if they turn Mack into a "badge engineered" Volvo.

When they sold of the car division, Volvo pretty much lost control of the Volvo brand. Granted, Volvo has a long and honorable history, attested to by those 2,000,000+ mile 1960s Volvo cars still running around. But when people think of Mack today they think of the boxy badge engineered Fords, VWs, and Mitsubushi that Ford is now pimping off. Given a chance, and pretty likely given their current financial state, Volvo cars will end up being another Mercury division. That's not the kind of brand you want on a premium truck.

Mack is a billion dollar brand. Literally, they could quit building trucks entirely and make billions just peddling Mack clothing, etc.. Heck, they could end of looking like a Harley dealership. The Mack brand has worldwide equity that the Volvo brand can't match, and Volvo controls the Mack brand. Thusly trying to build up the Volvo brand is a lost cause, and Volvo management should let Volvo trucks be cheap and cheerful mass produced integral sleepers and day cabs that do battle in the price wars with International, Sterling, and Freightliner. Heck, maybe they should even rename it White, the standard color of big fleets that buy on low bid and specify white paint so they only have to change the decals after their next Wall Street merger/acquistition/divestiture.

Mack should be a premium truck in every sense of the word, built to be the best and never built down to a price. Mack should have a full model line, including over the road trucks as well as conventionals and cabovers. In every measure, Mack should put Kenworthless, Peterbull, and Wasted Star to shame. Macks should be custom built to the customer's taste, not the fantasies of some Swedish engineers. And should push come to shove, the Volvo brand should disappear and Mack survive.

Bravo!!!!! Bravo!!!!

[nops]

Macks should be custom built to the customer's taste, not the fantasies of some Swedish engineers.

[Supertrucker]

Everyone here agrees the Mack name is one of the toughest in the industry. I have driven several models of Macks and several year ranges. I have also driven Peterbilts, Kenworths, Freightshakers, and yes even a Volvo. One thing my family has always liked about Mack is that you can order your truck with all Mack components, which makes it alot easier to order parts and service. Most other truck owners can't say the same. My Dad bought only one Mack RD that had an Eaton transmission and vowed to never do it again. After driving that Volvo hauling sugar beets from the field to the factory, there were several things I could point out that I liked. One was the wide open cab that was extremely spacious inside and out. The open glass and steep sloped hood made it nice when pulling onto a beet piler. The fit and finish of panels and relative ease of service were also pluses. There were drawbacks however. The interior looked extremely cheesy and the door latch mechanisims broke often. The truck was confortable to drive, but was deffinately not built for off highway use. Most farmers in my area by whatever truck runs good and is priced right. Very few buy based on brand or longevity.

I don't think Volvo will necessarily kill the Mack name since it is so engrained into our American culture, but I think there could be some negative effects of another major truck manufacturer making changes. For the majority of Mack's history, Mack trucks were used mainly in the vocational areas of trucking. Some companies used Mack F cabovers and later RW's for over the road, but most of Mack's line was geared towards off highway use. When the CH came along, more companies began to take notice of Mack's durabilty and began to use them. Since then you'll see more and more Macks at the truck stops and on the highways. I think if Volvo makes any changes to Mack, they should try and keep it in the highway lineup where comfort and driveability are more important. If they use automatic transmissions, keep them out of the off highway models and put them strictly in the Pinnacle. An automatic transmission is not necessarily a bad thing except if you run in the mountains, but it does take some of the skill away from the driver. Highway trucks bought by larger companies should be comfortable, easy to use and maintain, and designed to be idiot proof. Off highway trucks should be similar but stepped up a few notches. Suspensions and axles designed for long term service and be rebuildable, chassis designed for extreme loads and stress, cabs and other panels designed to be easy to care for and be flexible for options, an finally engines designed for high torque loads and power down low where it counts to get the load moving.

This is fairly long, but just my ideas built on a few years of experience. I'm not as experienced as many of you and I need to learn more mechanical skills, but I am a Mack enthusiast.

[mudslut28]

WOW!!!! Gearheadgrrrl you just made me smile on this cold snowy morning. I think you just said what most of us were thinking....good job!!! I'll give ya a huge heck yeah on that one. The last new Mack I bought was at least 10k higher than everything else...and you know what? It was worth every penny as almost 20 years later its second owner still runs it everyday.

[Q-TRANS]

The way a few MACK DEALERS act and treat MACK owners you would think that VOLVO had already did away with the MACK brand.

Kind of maddening when your buying parts and 2 DEALER mechanics stand there laughing and calling the MACK junk!

[bulldog man]

i agree w/ GG & & HK 100% i cant stand volvo they took 1 of my favorite brands of rt loader & rebadged it w/ thier name also done the same w/ champion motor graders (like a ole 710 or 720 champion w/ a cummins or screamin jimmy white , & & MY OTHER BRAND OF TRUCK I WAS RAISED ON THE BOB ALREADY HAS MENTIONED AUTOCAR

WEhad 2 of the butterfly hood DK Models @ 1 time as triaxle dumps w/ 400 BC Cummins (turned up to 500hp thanks to a driver that worked for my granddad from before i came along he is a Cummins man ) & 9spd LL Tranys & double framed w/ 16' beds w/ 2 way tailgates & 5" strights on them these trucks ran w/ olddog & the R & DM Models we had & we just as tough in my opion

i think Autocar ought build another conventail again they are now a garbage truck low cabover based on the old White expiditor (spell?) would like to see a autocar conventail again since THE GREEDY SWEDS THREW THEM TO THE WAY SIDE .

may our beloved make it through this troubled time

Yall have a goodone

[Mack1820]

the reason that i don't think Volvo is a good idea for Mack because i think Volvo is the worst brand of trucks they are so ugly. They are also cheaply made. Volvo has not even been popular untill the last 5 ro 6 years. they will destroy the mack name.

[memo555]

Hello gents,

I am very new to this forum but I am now here and I will try to answer questions you might have about our merger with Volvo. Please also respect the fact that I will only be able to share information that I am allowed to share publicly.

First, let me present myself. I am a product features manager for Mack Trucks and I am located in the truck capital of the world: Allentown, PA sitting here at the Mack Trucks headquarters. I set feature targets that you all enjoy and appreciate in your Mack. My most important responsibility is perhaps keeping our Mack brand a Mack truck is supposed to be. We strive to live up to our Mack promise: Built Like a Mack Truck.

Let me tell you a little bit more about our Volvo merger. You might all be aware of the fact that most truck manufacturers in the world (much like the car manufacturers) have merged or purchased each other to create economies of scale for more efficient and cost effective production solutions. Therefore, Mack could not survive on its own without having a partner. Renault was the first one in the group and we are now 3 brands strong between Mack, Renault and Volvo.

I realize that Volvo might have done some mistakes with the White and GMC brands in the past. But I assure you that our group has learned a great deal from that experience. I think you will appreciate to know that Volvo AB values the Mack brand so much that they have invested millions of dollars for our Hagerstown facility where we now manufacture proprietary Mack and Volvo engines using shared technology. As some of you mentioned, our old engine was no longer competitive enough to pass EPA regulations and was simply outdated.

With our new engine platform, we are now not only able to meet stringent EPA regulations, but we are also able to offer your a wider horsepower offering while keeping the legendary MAXIDYNE, ECONODYNE and MAXICRUISE offerings. The new Mack engines are better in every way than our legacy product: better performance, better torque delivery, and better fuel economy. I think you will be impressed by our 11 liter and 13 liter offerings when you check them out at: http://www.macktrucks.com/default.aspx?pageid=1359.

Please keep posting about your concerns and I will try to answer the best I can.