Is Volvo Good Or Bad For Mack Trucks?

[kscarbel]

Lancaster Preferred Partners (LPP) filed as an LLC on October 29, 2004, taking over the former Dana plant in Lancaster. It's interesting that there is absolutely no mention by Dana or the industry media about the transaction.

LPP filed as a Foreign Limited Liability Company in Pennsylvania with a qualification to also do business in Virginia (i.e. serve Volvo New River Valley). A Foreign Limited Liability Company is an LLC operating in a different state from the state where the LLC was organized.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the Virginia unit of Mexico's Metalsa is one of the "partners". Lancaster Preferred Partners is an extremely mysterious company that goes to great lengths to keep itself off the radar.

[james j neiweem]

That explains no web site for LLP.

[220cummins]

LLP just ratified a contract vote with the UAW this spring. http://uaw.org/articles/statement-region-9-director-scott-adams-ratification-lpp-lancaster-pa-contract

[MackMann85]

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Edited June 18, 2012 by MackLegacy

[GearheadGrrrl]

Never trusted Faux News much anyway...

[kscarbel]

Summarizing this to also include Europe, the new Volvo/Mack cab for North America will also be shared with Volvo and Renault heavy truck models in Europe and the global market. The North American variation of the new Volvo global cab will be modified for use in a conventional truck configuration.

My friends, this upcoming new cab terminates the last remnants of the Mack truck (optional legacy Mack transmissions and axles do not constitute a Mack truck). What Volvo has done, reduce a powerhouse American truck brand down to a mere shell of its former self, literally a Mack logo on what amounts to being a North American Volvo, should be a crime. No veteran Mack employee will argue differently.

[MackMann85]

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Edited June 18, 2012 by MackLegacy

[james j neiweem]

Thanks for the cab correction Mr. Legacy.

[kscarbel]

"The cabs in europe are so different than the ones in north america that could not possibly be modified without costing as much as a new cab altogether," says MackLegacy

Actually, the U.S. market Volvo VN conventional cab is based on the global market Volvo NH conventional, which shares commonality with the global market Volvo FH cabover. In addition, Paccar's Kenworth and Peterbilt product lines are both offering "full width" cabs (equivalent to European cabovers). So speaking of the upcoming global cab platform, there will be commonality.

"Thinking conventionals here would be able to share a cab with cabovers (in) europe is foolish to consider," says MackLegacy

Someone obviously isn't a "legacy" Mack person, otherwise they wouldn't make such a ridiculous statement.

The original Freightliner Business Class conventional (1991-2001) utilized a COE cab from the Mercedes-Benz model LN.

The stunning Freightliner Argosy II COE shares the same cab as the Century Class, Columbia and Coronado (the Argosy variant is 305mm wider).

The Mack MS Mid-Liner COE shared the same cab used on the Mack CS Mid-Liner conventional, and Renault’s C, CBH, CLM, CLR and GBC series conventional cab models.

The DAF XT conventional is based on the DAF XF105.

Scania's T-Series utililzed the company's Bertone-designed 4-Series COE cab.

The global market Volvo NH conventional was based on the FH/FM COE cab. The NH was full-width like the FH COE, while the North American market VN was a narrowed variant.

And of course the impressive Iveco "Powerstar" conventional utilizes the Stralis COE cab.

Foolish to think that conventionals could share cabs with cabovers? Hmm. Perhaps the issue is that you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

The news about the new Volvo/Renault/Mack global cab reported in the Swedish business daily Dagens Industri is factual. But of course, Volvo is not ready yet to officially announce it. If you dissolve Mack too quickly (what little is left), it would bring a quick end to what little Mack brand loyalty is left (Mack has become a truck sold on price, not Mack engineering).

[MackMann85]

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Edited June 18, 2012 by MackLegacy

[GearheadGrrrl]

Looking at the current conventional cabs and the Euro Volvo FM/FH cabs, it's not rocket science that some of the design is shared. But by the time they get done modding a cabover into an acceptable conventional and tooling up to build it here as well as in Europe, I wonder if they're saving any money by going with a single basic cab design? And over here, Volvo customers expect a wide cab and Mack vocational customers expect a narrow cab... If they share the same exact cab between Volvo and Mack, one or the other set of customers will reject it.

[james j neiweem]

If my old memory serves me right. One of the gentlemen on here with an MH picture icon said that

Volvo customers and Mack customers were getting together secretly to have input into up comming cabs. This was about two years ago. I thought he alluded to two different cab versions comming.

[Svin]

So you really think this is also the new mack cab? http://volvoworld.yourbb.nl/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=226&start=60

http://www.iepieleaks.nl/iepieleaksnieuw/category/renault/

[GearheadGrrrl]

Hopefully not... Unless our length limits change to favor cabovers. Trying to bodge a North American market conventional out of a cabover Eurotruck is an exercise in diminishing returns... By the time you narrow the cab, redesign the front to accomodate a hood, tool up to build a couple longer sleepers than the Euro market would buy there aren't a whole lot of common parts left between the Euro and North American cabs. As for the NA cabover market, I suspect the big users like the refuse companies prefer something basic like the MR and LE rather than a sophisticated Euro cabover.

[kscarbel]

And then there was only one.......... Paccar to be America's last U.S. truckmaker

FRANKFURT (Reuters) -- Volkswagen is in the early stages of examining whether to take a stake in U.S. truck and engine maker Navistar International to close the gap to rival Daimler, the Financial Times Deutschland reported on Sunday.

Entering the U.S. market via Navistar would help Volkswagen better compete with Daimler Trucks, the world's largest commercial vehicle maker, which owns the U.S. truck brand Freightliner.

Navistar reported a second-quarter loss on Thursday, hit by a hefty charge for warranty costs related to engines built in 2010 and 2011, sending its shares down as much as 28 percent to their lowest since late 2008.

Volkswagen controls Swedish truckmaker Scania, which does not have a substantial presence in the United States, as well as Germany's MAN, which is mainly active in Europe as well as Brazil and other emerging market economies.

The U.S. heavy truck market is largely split up between Daimler's Freightliner, Volvo with its Mack brand, Navistar's International, and Paccar's Kenworth and Peterbilt trucks.

Note: The statement "Volvo with its Mack brand" couldn't be more accurate. There is no more Mack Trucks. It's just a Volvo brand name on a North American market Volvo chassis.

[mackniac]

Hi !

yep too bad if Mack is disapearing slowly Volvo would make a big mistake with that !

I think that sometimes it should go back to Mack merging with Oshkosh and doing omly

vocational heavy duty working truck .

my 02 cents

[james j neiweem]

isn't it funny how we hear every day that Europe is going bankrupt(joke) and we have to bail them out.

Then why do they own so many US companies(truck producers are just one example area). Also funny why is the euro more valuable than the dollar. Political liars liars liars.

[GearheadGrrrl]

The Europeans, Japanese, and for that part, most of the rest of the world's business don't worry about quarterly results... They're in it for the long run. Renault, Volvo, and Daimler got Mack, White, and Freightliner at bargain prices during the 1980s recession. History may now repeat itself, with VWAG picking up Navistar for peanuts after short sighted management damn near ran Navistar into the ground.

[41180]

wasnt kscarbel just telling us to run out and buy a new international junk. i see more and more new macks on the road every month, today i saw 2 new titans and a bunch of pinnacles and granites ,

[Olivetroad]

I just read on here where IHC lost the court battle over emissions brought on by the other truck companies - plays right into V-dub's purchase at a cheaper share price.

[kscarbel]

No my friend, "kscarbel" was not "just telling us to run out and buy a new international". And, I also see new trucks (and cars) on the road every day - from all brands.

What I actually said was:

"I haven't been a big Navistar fan in recent years (the idiodic EGR direction), but they and Paccar (Kenworth and Peterbilt) are in fact the only American-owned truckmakers left (plus Oshkosh in the specialty truck field)."

For the time being, this is the simple fact (Volkwagen's just announced interest in Navistar might result in Paccar becoming the country's last American-owned U.S. truckmaker)

I also stated the obvious that few U.S. economists would disagree with:

"Given the economy in 2013 and 2014 is probably going to be turbulent (before recovering in 2015), it would be wise for American truck operators to invest in trucks produced by American companies for a while, keeping U.S. money in the U.S. in support of our country's best interest."

When you purchase a Daimler-owned Freightliner, the profits head out of the country to Stuttgart, Germany.

And when you purchase a U.S. Volvo or Mack-branded Volvo, the profits head out of the country to Gothenburg, Sweden.

Now, if you want to go out of your way to support the German and Swedish economies rather than our own U.S. economy, you certainly have the freedom to do so. But remember, we care more about the well being of the U.S. economy than the Germans and Swedes do. They watch their back, and we watch ours.

[220cummins]

If you purchase a Mack made product food gets put on the table for a number of families in the hagerstown area and even more for the macgunie area. Those families spend money in the local economy and help other families put food on the table. Buy a freightliner or international you can help Mexicans support their families and take from the us economy. So kcarsbel you can prolong the recovery until 2016-2017. BUY A MACK-IT DIRECTLY HELPS US MANUFACTURING AND HELPS AMERICAN FAMILIES! Navistar and Freightliner can NOT directly guarantee that like a MACK can.

[kscarbel]

My friend, the salaries of US workers employed at North American Volvo/Mack and Freightliner plants falls under Net Expenses. What I'm saying is the Net Profits head out of the country to Stuttgart, Germany and Gothenburg, Sweden.

I completely agree that Navistar has been labor unfriendly in recent years.

Paccar on the other hand, has never moved U.S. production out of the country (there's a lot to be said for Paccar's ethics and values). Paccar does have a plant in Mexico, however it's purpose is to meet the demands of the Mexican market (The very low volume Peterbilt 320 COE refuse chassis is produced there because it's unique design wouldn't fit in with existing production at Peterbilt's Denton, Texas plant).

[GearheadGrrrl]

Some of the profits from you folks buying new Macks end up going to this stockholder in Minnesota, USA!

[220cummins]

I understand where the proper accounting falls in the Net profits or net expenses columns. I'm saying you should possible entertain the fact that worker's paychecks at facilities in Hagerstown or Macgunie are supporting the local economy along with the us economy. Not all employee's paychecks of Navistar or Freightliner can do that. You need to realize the greater good by purchasing a quality and American made/assembled truck even if it is foreign parent owned. Even if the net profits do go to sweden as long as the payroll department writes checks to American workers that's what counts. Not to mention that Mack has for been the previous two decades held as a majority by Renault. Buy American Support-American workers.