Is Volvo Good Or Bad For Mack Trucks?

[HK Trucking]

Its nice to be the focus of all problems... AND THERE IS NO NEED TO YELL Next we will be the reason behind the current financial crisis..

If you dont like working on Volvo junk all the time why do keep doing it???

Its simple, wind back the clock, get rid of the new emissions regs and go back to the old polluters..

Then go back to worse fuel consumption, less GCW,

Its just not going to happen.. move forward and work with what you have.. and have some faith that not everyone has given up on the Mack brand.

As much as I see the majority here think the Mack and Volvo is a bad match, what were the alternatives and based on current economic times what might have happened.. The Auto industry in the USA looks mighty shaky..

again Have faith...

I hate to burst your bubble, or fog up your rose colored glasses, but I'm going to post a quote from another trucking forum where I am a moderator. The gentleman that posted this has been a Mack truck fan for a long time, but his latest truck, a 2008, has soured him on Macks.

Got to the yard this morning for my usual run to XXXXXX area,strapped her down and headed for XXXXXX.................all of the re-gen lights came on and "Wasted Time" proved true to form and lost all power.............could'nt get the bitch to run over 50 mph...............turned it back to the yard,parked it,left dispatch a note and came back home..................I am NOT a fan of Mack trucks anymore...........I hate that POS

His nickname for the truck is "Wasted Time". The truck has been back to the dealer repeatedly, but the problems just keep on happening.

Also, from your post above:

Then go back to worse fuel consumption, less GCW,

How do you figure the older "Real" Macks got less fuel mileage or were capable of less GCW than the new ones?

.

[rw613]

GOD BLESS YOU HK YOU CANT HAUL MORE IF THE TRUCK IS IN THE SHOP ALLTHE TIME IT DONT TAKE LONG TO FIGURE THAT ONE OUT DONT GET ME WRONG IM NOT TALKING JUST ABOUT MACK AND VOLVO IT IS ALL THE NEW EQUIPMENT

[rw613]

I FORGOT ONE THING THE NEW ONES PROBALY DO GET GOOD FUEL MILAGE IN THE SHOP HALF THE WEEK

[ThaddeusW]

Volvo isn't killing Mack, the stupid F@ing emissions laws are. Mack isn't the only truck furnished with a DPF which needs to regen, everyone must have one. Simple as that. Cummins, CAT, Detroit, International, Isuzu, Hino Etc. all have DPF's. There is no avoiding them. And did everyone forget about the ASET which was a nightmare even without the DPF? The ASET was not a Volvo blunder.

You want to curse someone then curse the EPA and all the loud mouth lobbyists who pushed for the tougher regs. Why do you think the E9 went the way of the dinosaur? Because Mack couldn't push it past 500HP without the EPA levying a fine against them for millions. That's also why CAT is bailing out. ACERT is a failure and come 2010 they are pulling the plug on the highway engine business. International has somehow worked out a deal with CAT to provide a C15/16 based MAXXForce engine. It might not even use any CAT systems such as fuel or emissions, International might design their own.

If no one buys new Macks because of bitterness toward Volvo then guess what? Mack goes to the chopping block. So buy new Granites, Pinnacles, Titans MR's etc. Spec all Mack components, show Volvo there is still a loyal following. You can piss and moan all you want and buy used Macks. That's cool but it doesn't show Volvo that Mack is still in demand, their quarterly report compiled by the bean counters does. No sales means its time to restructure.

Show Volvo there is still demand for a true as can be Mack truck. Ignore the fact that under the hood is a Volvo engine with a Mack logo. Yea it sucks but that's the way it is, there is no going back. Image if demand drops to the point that Volvo just sticks a Mack transmission and axles under a VH with a Mack hood and sells that as a Mack. Autocar all over again. Do we want that to happen?

Keep the faith.

[rw613]

I AGREE ABOUT THE EPA ALL THE TRUCK MANUFACTURES ARE JUST TRYING TO BUILD A TRUCK THAT WILL MAKE IT FROM THE FACTORY TO THE DEALER WITH OUT BREAKING DOWN BUT YOUR CUSTOMERS DO NOT WANT TO HEAR WHY THERE LOAD IS NOT THERE THEY DONT CARE IF YOUR NEW TRUCK WILL MAKE ABOUT 3 BREAKDOWNS A MOUNTH AND YOU DONT HAVE THAT RUN ANY MORE ......SO YES GO BUY A DOZEN NEW TRUCKS SEE HOW THAT WORKS OUT FOR YOU

[EM6285]

I am one of those people who still has faith in the MACK TRUCKS brand. All mayor truck brands are having issues with the EMISSIONS EQUIPMENT. And now we have INTERNATIONAL trashing everyone else because the SCR VS "Advanced EGR" battle. I find so stupid of some people the claim that they will buy an INTERNATIONAL (INTERTRASHIONAL) truck just so they do not deal with DEF...How stupid. A great truck is not one with a non SCR engine.

[Mackpro]

Volvo isn't killing Mack, the stupid F@ing emissions laws are. Mack isn't the only truck furnished with a DPF which needs to regen, everyone must have one. Simple as that. Cummins, CAT, Detroit, International, Isuzu, Hino Etc. all have DPF's. There is no avoiding them. And did everyone forget about the ASET which was a nightmare even without the DPF? The ASET was not a Volvo blunder.

You want to curse someone then curse the EPA and all the loud mouth lobbyists who pushed for the tougher regs. Why do you think the E9 went the way of the dinosaur? Because Mack couldn't push it past 500HP without the EPA levying a fine against them for millions. That's also why CAT is bailing out. ACERT is a failure and come 2010 they are pulling the plug on the highway engine business. International has somehow worked out a deal with CAT to provide a C15/16 based MAXXForce engine. It might not even use any CAT systems such as fuel or emissions, International might design their own.

If no one buys new Macks because of bitterness toward Volvo then guess what? Mack goes to the chopping block. So buy new Granites, Pinnacles, Titans MR's etc. Spec all Mack components, show Volvo there is still a loyal following. You can piss and moan all you want and buy used Macks. That's cool but it doesn't show Volvo that Mack is still in demand, their quarterly report compiled by the bean counters does. No sales means its time to restructure.

Show Volvo there is still demand for a true as can be Mack truck. Ignore the fact that under the hood is a Volvo engine with a Mack logo. Yea it sucks but that's the way it is, there is no going back. Image if demand drops to the point that Volvo just sticks a Mack transmission and axles under a VH with a Mack hood and sells that as a Mack. Autocar all over again. Do we want that to happen?

Keep the faith.

This is one of the best , most true post I have seen in awhile. I have worked at a Mack Dealer for 22years now. The EPA is the one killing us not Volvo. However I dont like Volvo (or Volvo trucks)owning Mack but thats out of our control. As far as the MP engines go, I would go out and order a new one today if I needed a truck. The bugs have finally been worked out (new injector cup washers, new roller rockers, 7th injector purge kit and other updates) We have sold several GU's that stay local and we do nothing but regular oil changes on them. I hate to say this and will probably get laughed at and booed but if Mack was going to get bought by someone and forced to use their engine, I wish it was Hino (Toyota, I think) Their DPF engines are awesome and I wish we were a dealer. I have said many times that if Hino built a class 8 large truck, it would put them all out of business.

[EM6285]

This is one of the best , most true post I have seen in awhile. I have worked at a Mack Dealer for 22years now. The EPA is the one killing us not Volvo. However I dont like Volvo (or Volvo trucks)owning Mack but thats out of our control. As far as the MP engines go, I would go out and order a new one today if I needed a truck. The bugs have finally been worked out (new injector cup washers, new roller rockers, 7th injector purge kit and other updates) We have sold several GU's that stay local and we do nothing but regular oil changes on them. I hate to say this and will probably get laughed at and booed but if Mack was going to get bought by someone and forced to use their engine, I wish it was Hino (Toyota, I think) Their DPF engines are awesome and I wish we were a dealer. I have said many times that if Hino built a class 8 large truck, it would put them all out of business.

You will be surprised to know that in a recent ranking of class 6 and 7 TRUCKS done by a mayor MAGAZINE, HINO TRUCKS came in first place (yahhhh beatting INTERNATIONAL!!!) The quality of their engine, low cost of ownership (mantainance), fuel economy and reliability were impresive on HINO TRUCKS.

Now that TOYOTA will get some of its tentacles on ISUZU DIESEL the TOYOTA /HINO DIESEL TECHNOLOGY will evolve.

You are not the only one wishing HINO (TOYOTA) to make the big sstep in helping an AMERICAN manufacturer of DIESEL ENGINES and TRUCKS, BLUE BIRD BUS CO...is thinkering with that idea.....

[EM6285]

Volvo isn't killing Mack, the stupid F@ing emissions laws are. Mack isn't the only truck furnished with a DPF which needs to regen, everyone must have one. Simple as that. Cummins, CAT, Detroit, International, Isuzu, Hino Etc. all have DPF's. There is no avoiding them. And did everyone forget about the ASET which was a nightmare even without the DPF? The ASET was not a Volvo blunder.

You want to curse someone then curse the EPA and all the loud mouth lobbyists who pushed for the tougher regs. Why do you think the E9 went the way of the dinosaur? Because Mack couldn't push it past 500HP without the EPA levying a fine against them for millions. That's also why CAT is bailing out. ACERT is a failure and come 2010 they are pulling the plug on the highway engine business. International has somehow worked out a deal with CAT to provide a C15/16 based MAXXForce engine. It might not even use any CAT systems such as fuel or emissions, International might design their own.

If no one buys new Macks because of bitterness toward Volvo then guess what? Mack goes to the chopping block. So buy new Granites, Pinnacles, Titans MR's etc. Spec all Mack components, show Volvo there is still a loyal following. You can piss and moan all you want and buy used Macks. That's cool but it doesn't show Volvo that Mack is still in demand, their quarterly report compiled by the bean counters does. No sales means its time to restructure.

Show Volvo there is still demand for a true as can be Mack truck. Ignore the fact that under the hood is a Volvo engine with a Mack logo. Yea it sucks but that's the way it is, there is no going back. Image if demand drops to the point that Volvo just sticks a Mack transmission and axles under a VH with a Mack hood and sells that as a Mack. Autocar all over again. Do we want that to happen?

Keep the faith.

I JUST THINK IT IS TIME TO PUT AN END TO THIS TOPIC, OR LOCK IT FOR SURE. AT FIRST I DID NOT LIKED THE IDEA OF MY MACK BULL DOG LOOSING ITS PEDIGREE. BUT AS I THINK FORWARD....WHERE THE MACK TRUCK BRAND WILL BE IF IT WASN'T FOR VOLVO???? THE MACK TRUCK BRAND HAS EVOLVED AND WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE OF MACK TRUCKS. WILL MACK TRUCKS STAY COMPETITIVE IF THEY STAY WITH THE OLDER ENGINE PLATFORMS E6 /E7 /E9 AND THE OLDER TRUCK MODELS?????

THE GRANITE TRUCK SERIES IS AN GREAT PRODUCT. AND MACK TRUCKS CONTINUES TO BE A STRONG LEADER HERE IN THE CONSTRUCTION SECTION. THANKFULLY OUR DEALER SPEC THE TRUCKS WITH MACK CAMELL BACK SUSPENSSIONS AND MACK REAR AXLES. DEALER IS HELPING OWNERS WITH DPF AND ELECTRONIC ISSUES. SO WE CAN CLEAR THE FUTURE FOR THIS TRUCK BRAND.

THERE WILL BE AN INTERESTING OPEN HOUSE OR CLINIC AT OUR LOCAL DEALER, ABOUT EDUCATING PEOPLE ABOUT HTE SCR SYSTEMS (THANKS TO THE BOGUS ANTI SCR CAMPAING OF NAVISTAR) AND DAVE Mc KENNA JUST INVITED ME TO THAT OPEN HOUSE.

SO TRUE MACK ENTHUSIAST WE NEED TO SUPPORT OR FAVORITE TRUCK BRAND AND DO NOT LET THE ANTI SCR CAMPAING GET INTO YOU.

DOES NAVISTAR OFER A PRODUCT THAT BEATS A MACK PRODUCT???? NO!!!! (WELL, MAYBE SCHOOL BUSES)

[ThaddeusW]

I am one of those people who still has faith in the MACK TRUCKS brand. All mayor truck brands are having issues with the EMISSIONS EQUIPMENT. And now we have INTERNATIONAL trashing everyone else because the SCR VS "Advanced EGR" battle. I find so stupid of some people the claim that they will buy an INTERNATIONAL (INTERTRASHIONAL) truck just so they do not deal with DEF...How stupid. A great truck is not one with a non SCR engine.

International isn't the only one bashing SCR, MAN the German truck and Diesel engine maker behind the MAXXForce 11 & 13 started the bashing in Europe. In Europe DEF is called ADBlue and MAN came up with the slogan "Add Nothing". So of course IH is also jumping on the SCR bashing band wagon. But for big bore power SCR is used for the MAN D28 V8 and I am sure it will be nesessary for the MAXXForce/CAT engine (MAXXForce 15, 16?).

With all the problems DPF's have given customers it makes sence to take advantage of the fact you can do away with SCR and keep the engine simpler. This will win over customers who are weary of SCR, especially after dealing with DPF. EGR + DPF + SCR = allot of crap to break down and maintian, the less the better.

[ThaddeusW]

You will be surprised to know that in a recent ranking of class 6 and 7 TRUCKS done by a mayor MAGAZINE, HINO TRUCKS came in first place (yahhhh beatting INTERNATIONAL!!!) The quality of their engine, low cost of ownership (mantainance), fuel economy and reliability were impresive on HINO TRUCKS.

Now that TOYOTA will get some of its tentacles on ISUZU DIESEL the TOYOTA /HINO DIESEL TECHNOLOGY will evolve.

You are not the only one wishing HINO (TOYOTA) to make the big sstep in helping an AMERICAN manufacturer of DIESEL ENGINES and TRUCKS, BLUE BIRD BUS CO...is thinkering with that idea.....

I test drove one of those new conventional Hino's. It was very well designed on the inside and had great maneuverability. The bigger class 6 and 7 trucks have an all American drive line driven by a Hino engine. Same for the Big class 8 cabovers sold in Australia, Hino cab and engine driving Fuller trans and Meritor axles. Even the Big Hino engine (not here in the US/CA) has a Jacobs designed engine brake.

[HK Trucking]

EM6285 Wrote:

I JUST THINK IT IS TIME TO PUT AN END TO THIS TOPIC, OR LOCK IT FOR SURE.

As long as the discussion remains civil, I see no reason to lock it.

Everyone can vent here about their frustrations or hopes regarding Mack / V*lv*.

[rw613]

EM6285 Wrote:

As long as the discussion remains civil, I see no reason to lock it.

Everyone can vent here about their frustrations or hopes regarding Mack / V*lv*.

yes that is true it all depends on what side of this mess your on

[EM6285]

International isn't the only one bashing SCR, MAN the German truck and Diesel engine maker behind the MAXXForce 11 & 13 started the bashing in Europe. In Europe DEF is called ADBlue and MAN came up with the slogan "Add Nothing". So of course IH is also jumping on the SCR bashing band wagon. But for big bore power SCR is used for the MAN D28 V8 and I am sure it will be nesessary for the MAXXForce/CAT engine (MAXXForce 15, 16?).

With all the problems DPF's have given customers it makes sence to take advantage of the fact you can do away with SCR and keep the engine simpler. This will win over customers who are weary of SCR, especially after dealing with DPF. EGR + DPF + SCR = allot of crap to break down and maintian, the less the better.

I do hope that the soon to come "new" MAXXIPILLAR 15 Engine does go the SCR way just to see what the heck NAVISTAR is going to say.

Some folks talk about the "2010 NAVISTAR DOMINATION", but I do not see them dominating. NAVISTAR will not have CATERPILLAR and CUMMINS big engines for its line of "trucks" so... their HEAVY DUTY LINE will be on hold until the "new" MAXIPILLAR engine cames on.

SCR will bring les DPF REGEN events and less DPF FILTER REPLACEMENT add that to the FUEL ECONOMY IMPROVEMENT and we have to look to the future with no fear.

[ThaddeusW]

I do hope that the soon to come "new" MAXXIPILLAR 15 Engine does go the SCR way just to see what the heck NAVISTAR is going to say.

Some folks talk about the "2010 NAVISTAR DOMINATION", but I do not see them dominating. NAVISTAR will not have CATERPILLAR and CUMMINS big engines for its line of "trucks" so... their HEAVY DUTY LINE will be on hold until the "new" MAXIPILLAR engine cames on.

SCR will bring les DPF REGEN events and less DPF FILTER REPLACEMENT add that to the FUEL ECONOMY IMPROVEMENT and we have to look to the future with no fear.

I dont see how SCR will affect DPF. The SCR catalyst will come after the DPF and they both serve different purposes. The DPF catches particulate matter, aka soot. SCR (along with EGR) is there to reduce oxides of nitrogen.

All in all it will be interesting to see what 2010 will bring us. Paccar is going to bring us their super high tech MX engine and they already offer two rebranded Cummins engines. Looks like Paccar is going to be the Cummins go-to for trucks. the only Engine maker that you might find in a truck besides the in house European derived engine is Cummins.

International: IH, MAN and CAT

Paccar: Cummins and Paccar-DAF MX

Mack: Volvo

Freightliner: Detroit Diesel and Mercedes

Looks like the long history of engine freedom of choice in North American brands is about to end.

[johnmcglu@aol.com]

The days of Mack being "the greatest name in trucks" passed on with the end of the Mack R series. The Mack B was "Built like a Tank", and there are still a great many on the road more than 50 years after the first one was built. I always look forward to going to Macungie in June to see these trucks at the annual truck show. Mack's loss of the truck business is just one more example of today's business "selling out to make a quick buck".

John

[HK Trucking]

V*lv* will never offer a dump truck chassis as tough as the B81.

[mopar]

I dont see how SCR will affect DPF. The SCR catalyst will come after the DPF and they both serve different purposes. The DPF catches particulate matter, aka soot. SCR (along with EGR) is there to reduce oxides of nitrogen.

All in all it will be interesting to see what 2010 will bring us. Paccar is going to bring us their super high tech MX engine and they already offer two rebranded Cummins engines. Looks like Paccar is going to be the Cummins go-to for trucks. the only Engine maker that you might find in a truck besides the in house European derived engine is Cummins.

International: IH, MAN and CAT

Paccar: Cummins and Paccar-DAF MX

Mack: Volvo

Freightliner: Detroit Diesel and Mercedes

Looks like the long history of engine freedom of choice in North American brands is about to end.

you forget Inernational has cummins engine in some of their trucks

[iceberg210]

Seems to me that there are two main ways of measuring Volvo's effect on Mack. First on Mack quality, and then on Mack's market share.

1. Mack quality, as has been expounded by many people here, and many people I've talked to as well as my own experience, has fallen off a huge amount since the Volvo buyout.

2. Mack market share has decreased since Volvo bought them.

Seems to me that in both cases Volvo has been detrimental to Mack.

Which truly is a tragedy in my opinion cause Mack is one of the last great American manufactures.

Here's to the bulldog, and all the great trucks that have been adorned by it.

And hoping that the trucks it graces might improve back to the greatness they once were.

On a slightly different note I'm a huge Brockway fan and in them you saw what Volvo should have done with Mack. Allowed them to service their niche, and continue to improve their trucks instead of just subbing any and every part to make a Volvo clone. Mack did right with Brockway, (until the shutdown of course but that was as much the union's fault as Macks, in my opinion) Volvo is doing wrong with Mack.

[Bullheaded]

you forget Inernational has cummins engine in some of their trucks

2009 is the last year for Cummins in an International. Int. dropped them when they had their falling out over SCR. Cummins initially said no SCR but when they changed their position Int. dropped them and went to bed with Cat. They didn't have any provisions for SCR in any of their truck designs or engineering so Cummins kinda dropped a bomb on them. So now Int. will have no 15 litre engine for much of 2010....The MaxxForce 13 475 horse will be the biggest for the moment.

Freightliner/Western Star picked up Cummins as their optional engine now also after Cat packed it in.

I sure hope Mack survives and they keep the factories going over here. They're one of the few that aren't being built in Mexico yet. Just read even International is thinking of closing Chatham and going to Mexico.

[EM6285]

2009 is the last year for Cummins in an International. Int. dropped them when they had their falling out over SCR. Cummins initially said no SCR but when they changed their position Int. dropped them and went to bed with Cat. They didn't have any provisions for SCR in any of their truck designs or engineering so Cummins kinda dropped a bomb on them. So now Int. will have no 15 litre engine for much of 2010....The MaxxForce 13 475 horse will be the biggest for the moment.

Freightliner/Western Star picked up Cummins as their optional engine now also after Cat packed it in.

I sure hope Mack survives and they keep the factories going over here. They're one of the few that aren't being built in Mexico yet. Just read even International is thinking of closing Chatham and going to Mexico.

It would be nice if mayor TRUCK builders ask MACK /VOLVO for bigger engines such as the MACK MP10 /VOLVO D16 to put on their trucks.

[hoffy]

Well, I guess that's another one that will be "assimilated" and cease to exist shortly.

hi all im new to this site and this is my first post yes it is true volvo bought into ud however ud has 51 percent of the company therefore they still have final say volvos reason for buying in is they needed a mid size truck to compete in sales and still meet emissions i know this for fact due to the fact ive been a mechanic for the first 4 years of my career and the last 7 as a master tech at a volvo/ud/gmc/isuzu dealer in pennsylvania

[techdog68]

IMHO the damage to Mack was already done by Renault and the chances of there ever being another true American built truck are likely gone forever. The sad truth in all of this is America has been sold down the river by the very people we elected to represent our interests . Our government has never been very fond of the Trucking Industry or the independant minded people that engaged in it and they have lost all sight of the spirit and ideals that brought this country the success it has gained in its short existence . Is Volvo good for Mack? Volvo is not good for anything. The euro truck makers were chomping at the bit to get into the American truck market for years , and now they are here , in force , and they are not going away. They are here for the money and that is the only reason. To push their ugly generic Power Units on us and take our cash back to their banks in Europe while we have to tow their to engineering marvels to their service facilities to have them fixed. Hopefully the Wrecker Co we call has an old Mack to send out or we'll have to call a wrecker for the wrecker . Ahh we can breath easy , he just pulled up in a 1970s R model with a chain drive Holmes 800 twin boom . I guess that 60 ton rotator Sterling with the Mercedes engine must be in the shop again, at least we can be sure this euro swoop nose VGT common fail injected junk will get to the shop. Gotta remember to write the tag # down so I can pick it out parked with all the other euro clones in the parking lot if they ever get it fixed. Well gotta go get the ol' 2 stick2 stack Mack outa the barn out back . Lookee there she didn't even turn a full round and fired right up! Nothin like the sound of that 500 V8 comin out those 8" straight stacks, don't need a radio in this old truck , whats that? ,say you like your music loud? Just flip that switch that says DYNA on it and let off the throttel ! That loud enough for ya? Yeup I thought so. I think I understand how this emissions reduction stuff works now. Dang thing makes less emissions cuz it only runs half the time. Its all makin sense to me now . Takes two trucks to haul a load too. Yeup I see why they sell so many trucks too. Somebody needs to tell them euro fellas the 'Granite' is supposed to go in the wagon . This ol' Superliner got every bit of room in the cab as a CH . Say you want flash codes? You just hit that long switch lever on top there on the left , that'll flash the 'thank ya ' code fer lettin me know i'm clear to come back over , and the ABS is built into this right leg of mine . Sure theres electronic stuff in these old trucks, one of them electronic flashers in the corner socket behind that panel over there that looks like a glove box. Naw, I keep my gloves over here by the door, so i dont need no glove box anyway. Whats that other stick for? That is an ipick. That's where I pick what gear I want , Ain't no Ranger on this road . Check engine light?! What I need that for? I know I got an engine , don't need a light to know that! Sure its got cruise control, just turn that knob a couple turns , that button in the end of it turns it off too. Well I gotta go but if you ever get that lectronic autoshiftin power unit to run long enough maybe we'll run into each other again ,if not i'll be comin thru in about a week , I'll stop in and see ya .

[techdog68]

2009 is the last year for Cummins in an International. Int. dropped them when they had their falling out over SCR. Cummins initially said no SCR but when they changed their position Int. dropped them and went to bed with Cat. They didn't have any provisions for SCR in any of their truck designs or engineering so Cummins kinda dropped a bomb on them. So now Int. will have no 15 litre engine for much of 2010....The MaxxForce 13 475 horse will be the biggest for the moment.

Freightliner/Western Star picked up Cummins as their optional engine now also after Cat packed it in.

I sure hope Mack survives and they keep the factories going over here. They're one of the few that aren't being built in Mexico yet. Just read even International is thinking of closing Chatham and going to Mexico.

International has had a plant in mexico since 2000 , Ain't NAFTA wonderful?! Nobody wanted to listen to that crazy man from texas . He called it , and he was dead on. NAFTA did EXACTLY what he said it was gonna do, and you can still hear the GIANT SUCKING SOUND coming from there . Bush and Clinton stood there on each side of him while he warned us, and they both knew he was telling the truth, We elected Clinton and he thanked us by selling us out.

[mackcl96]

IMHO the damage to Mack was already done by Renault and the chances of there ever being another true American built truck are likely gone forever. The sad truth in all of this is America has been sold down the river by the very people we elected to represent our interests . Our government has never been very fond of the Trucking Industry or the independant minded people that engaged in it and they have lost all sight of the spirit and ideals that brought this country the success it has gained in its short existence . Is Volvo good for Mack? Volvo is not good for anything. The euro truck makers were chomping at the bit to get into the American truck market for years , and now they are here , in force , and they are not going away. They are here for the money and that is the only reason. To push their ugly generic Power Units on us and take our cash back to their banks in Europe while we have to tow their to engineering marvels to their service facilities to have them fixed. Hopefully the Wrecker Co we call has an old Mack to send out or we'll have to call a wrecker for the wrecker . Ahh we can breath easy , he just pulled up in a 1970s R model with a chain drive Holmes 800 twin boom . I guess that 60 ton rotator Sterling with the Mercedes engine must be in the shop again, at least we can be sure this euro swoop nose VGT common fail injected junk will get to the shop. Gotta remember to write the tag # down so I can pick it out parked with all the other euro clones in the parking lot if they ever get it fixed. Well gotta go get the ol' 2 stick2 stack Mack outa the barn out back . Lookee there she didn't even turn a full round and fired right up! Nothin like the sound of that 500 V8 comin out those 8" straight stacks, don't need a radio in this old truck , whats that? ,say you like your music loud? Just flip that switch that says DYNA on it and let off the throttel ! That loud enough for ya? Yeup I thought so. I think I understand how this emissions reduction stuff works now. Dang thing makes less emissions cuz it only runs half the time. Its all makin sense to me now . Takes two trucks to haul a load too. Yeup I see why they sell so many trucks too. Somebody needs to tell them euro fellas the 'Granite' is supposed to go in the wagon . This ol' Superliner got every bit of room in the cab as a CH . Say you want flash codes? You just hit that long switch lever on top there on the left , that'll flash the 'thank ya ' code fer lettin me know i'm clear to come back over , and the ABS is built into this right leg of mine . Sure theres electronic stuff in these old trucks, one of them electronic flashers in the corner socket behind that panel over there that looks like a glove box. Naw, I keep my gloves over here by the door, so i dont need no glove box anyway. Whats that other stick for? That is an ipick. That's where I pick what gear I want , Ain't no Ranger on this road . Check engine light?! What I need that for? I know I got an engine , don't need a light to know that! Sure its got cruise control, just turn that knob a couple turns , that button in the end of it turns it off too. Well I gotta go but if you ever get that lectronic autoshiftin power unit to run long enough maybe we'll run into each other again ,if not i'll be comin thru in about a week , I'll stop in and see ya .

Renault was a good partner that worked......TOGETHER WITH.... Mack.

If it wasnt for them,,,,, Mack would still be running a E6 2-valve 350.

The 4-valve head, the E7 and the E9 (that you love) are all here with major help from Renault.