Is Volvo Good Or Bad For Mack Trucks?

[kscarbel]

You are absolutely right that in the small picture, the salaries of US workers employed at North American Volvo/Mack and Freightliner plants, which fall under Net Expenses, do indeed help to support local US economies.

I'm thrilled to hear you mention that Mack Trucks was once under Renault. But the difference between Mack Trucks under Renault versus Volvo is like night and day. Ask anyone that was a Mack Trucks employee at the time.

When Renault became involved with Mack Trucks in 1981, Renault understood the immense value of the Mack Truck Company. Rather than take apart an ill global icon, Renault under the superb leadership of Elios Pascual invested heavily in Mack Trucks and brought the company back to greatness. Both Renault and Mack Truck employees couldn't have been more pleased with the outcome. Mack was back!

Unlike Volvo, Renault realized the value of Mack and invested huge sums of money to rebuild the company. Naturally Mack employees were at first very concerned about what would transpire under Renault. But Mack employees quickly observed that Renault was dedicated to rebuilding the Mack Company (rather than reduce to a mere shell of its former self as Volvo has). Thus, Renault and their appointed Mack President Elios Pascual quickly earned the respect of Mack employees. Elios Pascual revived the Mack team spirit originally inspired by legendary Mack Trucks President Zenon C.R. Hansen. If you look at the numbers, Mack performed extremely well under Renault. Only after Mack was solidly back on its feet again did Renault slowly begin to repay itself the money it had invested in Mack's recovery.

Under Volvo, the Mack Truck Company has been eliminated! Volvo just wanted the Mack logo. Step by step, Volvo has eliminated all that the Mack Truck Company was (The closure of Mack Truck’s world headquarters in Allentown and transfer of all functions to Volvo Truck Headquarters in Greensboro, North Carolina, was the fatal blow to the Mack brand. Any remark to the contrary is a distortion of the fact).

1) Mack Trucks' world headquarters has been closed.
2) Mack Trucks' Hagerstown powertrain plant has become a Volvo powertrain plant.
3) Mack Truck's Engineering Development and Test Center has been closed (a 62-acre facility dedicated by Mack Trucks to pushing the engineering envelope and perfecting Mack products. Here, prior to Volvo’s closure of this facility vastly superior to Volvo’s facility in North Carolina, Mack vehicles underwent a battery of torture tests. Cabs bounced for months at a time over simulated bumps. One-ton wrecking balls crashed into door frames. A brutal off-road test track (far, far superior to Volvos – ask any Mack R&D person) ensured Mack trucks lived up to impossibly high standards)

Legendary Mack Trucks President Zenon C.R. Hansen legitimately made Allentown, Pennsylvania "The Truck Capital of the World", and inspired an incredible spirit and pride within Mack people that, I feel, remains unmatched to this day. For employees of other U.S. truckmakers, their work was just a job. But under Zenon C.R. Hansen and acting President Elios Pascual (under Renault), Mack employees were a special breed. Employment at Mack Trucks was a unique career and rewarding way of life. You knew that you belonged to something really special, and it showed in your confidence.

As they say, "Mack means a lot of things to a lot of people". No matter where a Mack employee went, whether it be world headquarters, Macungie, a parts distribution center (PDC), factory branch or dealer, he or she always felt at home within a special family. You were never allowed to feel like a stranger. Anyone that entered Mack's world headquarters knows what I mean. In the way the receptionist would warmly greet you and present you with a Mack Bulldog lapel pin, you immediately knew Mack was like no other truckmaker.

Volvo has demonstrated again and again since 2001 that they are completely oblivious to the very meaning of Mack Trucks and the immense value this company represents when it is allowed to flourish in its own right.
(I had no problem with Volvo reducing White and GMC to nothing, because those two brands realistically were already nothing)
But Mack Trucks is a totally different situation entirely. The strength of the Mack brand, its incredible employees and the company's legendary engineering is immeasurable. It is nothing less than amazing how ignorant Volvo Group's business strategy is relating to Mack Trucks.

Mack Trucks, unlike any other truckmaker throughout U.S. history, has a soul. Mack is not a brand. Mack is a legend. Mack is a family, of employees and customers. For customers, Mack is a feeling. For Mack employees everywhere, Mack is a way of life. Nobody ever said "built like a Freightliner, or International". No other U.S. truck brand ever became a household word.

Under sound independent management, Mack Trucks could benefit Volvo Group far more than a decapitated Mack brand which now is no more than a Mack emblem on a disposable low-quality truck built around Volvo components. Mack customers are alienated by this product.

Mack customers want to purchase a "real" Mack truck, with genuine Mack "pedigreed" components that incorporate the engineering that Mack Trucks is legendary for.

In a tradition set by legendary Mack engineer Alfred Masury*, Mack had always set itself apart from other US truckmakers as an integrated truckmaker, designing and producing its own drivetrain components; engines, transmissions, axles and suspensions, with each component carefully engineered to compliment the other resulting in Mack's "balanced design" concept that yielded efficient and economical performance.

Based on Volvo's embarrassing 36 year track record in the U.S. market, it would be prudent for Volvo to abandon the US market in terms of the unsuccessful Volvo brand (sales are dismal), and once again make Mack Trucks an independently functioning company, supporting Mack with investment (as Renault did), allowing Mack to once be a powerful force in the trucking industry, standing on its on two feet, setting its own agenda, and setting industry trends with revolutionary products (in the tradition of the R, U and DM models, Maxidyne high torque rise engine, Maxitorque transmission, Dynamax wet clutch, “Planidrive” planetary hub reduction drive axles, cab air suspension, CF fire chassis, cutting edge MH Ultra-Liner cabover design, Maxi-Glas cab construction, MR-Series refuse truck, M-Series off-highway trucks (whose Mack forerunners built the Panama Canal and Hoover Dam) and the E-9 V-8 engine).

Volvo could however supply Mack with a competitive Mack-branded medium truck, as Renault did in the form of the Mack Mid-Liner / Mack Manager.

The only people thrilled with Volvo's decapitation of Mack Trucks are the company's competitors.

What Volvo has done, reduce a global icon and American legend to a mere shell of its former self, should be a crime.


* Alfred Fellows Masury, the legendary engineer and Mack Trucks vice president responsible for the company’s early successes including the AB and AC Bulldog, who had patented many technical breakthroughs at Mack Trucks including rubber-insulated spring mounting, met an untimely death at the age of 51 when, as a commissioned Lieutenant Colonel (U.S. Army Reserve) in the Ordnance Department and Chairman of the Ordnance Advisory Committee, he was among 73 people who perished in what was the deadliest airship accident up to that time when the USS Akron (ZRS-4) crashed into the Atlantic ocean off New Jersey during a severe storm.

[MackMann85]

Lets take a poll about kscarbel and try to figure out why his attitude toward Mack is so poor:

1. He/she used to work for Mack and was fired for a poor attitude.

2. His/her job was lost in the move from Allentown (this would be truly sad and the only good reason in the list to be upset)

3. A Mack truck ran over his/her favorite dog as a child.

4. Doesnt have anything better to do and is a grouch.

Normally I would not be so harsh to a stranger, but this is a site for Mack FANS. I guess after the 20th negative post about Mack its just getting old... You obviously care about the company kscarbel, so try not to breed negativity by being negative. If you have only bad things to say, I cant speak for everyone but would prefer you take them elsewhere.

[Olivetroad]

Lets take a poll about kscarbel and try to figure out why his attitude toward Mack is so poor:

1. He/she used to work for Mack and was fired for a poor attitude.

2. His/her job was lost in the move from Allentown (this would be truly sad and the only good reason in the list to be upset)

3. A Mack truck ran over his/her favorite dog as a child.

4. Doesnt have anything better to do and is a grouch.

Normally I would not be so harsh to a stranger, but this is a site for Mack FANS. I guess after the 20th negative post about Mack its just getting old... You obviously care about the company kscarbel, so try not to breed negativity by being negative. If you have only bad things to say, I cant speak for everyone but would prefer you take them elsewhere.

Ha! I like #3.

I don't see him as being negative - I think he is just like many folks who appreciate what Mack used to represent - he thinks VOLVO does not have Mack's best interest in mind when they make decisions about Mack as a company/brand. What he adds here is not something anyone likes to hear about what he sees happening to the historic Mack brand, but does that mean it is not true, or that he should not be able to add his two cents?

[kscarbel]

Breeding negativity? The title of this thread is "Is Volvo Good Or Bad For Mack Trucks?" I don't feel that Volvo is good for Mack, and I am expressing why I feel that way. Just now, I see that 73.81 percent of the viewers on this forum also feel that Volvo is bad for Mack.

If you discuss the matter with any longtime Mack employee, they will agree with me that what Volvo has done, reduce a global icon and American legend to a mere shell of its former self, should be a crime.

Is MackLegacy a Volvo PR department employee assigned to monitor popular Mack forums and counter any negative comments? Quite possibly.

"A Mack truck ran over his/her favorite dog as a child."

Sir, if you are unable communicate on a higher plane than that, perhaps you should not be on this forum. Just as well, since you seem to know very little about the company (But I understand, since many Volvo Truck people are not career truck people as Mack employees traditionally were).

My posts certainly reflect my sincere feeling and long time dedication to Mack Trucks. My posts are also filled with a great deal of facts.

[41chevy]

Ha! I like #3.

I don't see him as being negative - I think he is just like many folks who appreciate what Mack used to represent - he thinks VOLVO does not have Mack's best interest in mind when they make decisions about Mack as a company/brand. What he adds here is not something anyone likes to hear about what he sees happening to the historic Mack brand, but does that mean it is not true, or that he should not be able to add his two cents?

[Green Dash]

Ha! I like #3.

I don't see him as being negative - I think he is just like many folks who appreciate what Mack used to represent - he thinks VOLVO does not have Mack's best interest in mind when they make decisions about Mack as a company/brand. What he adds here is not something anyone likes to hear about what he sees happening to the historic Mack brand, but does that mean it is not true, or that he should not be able to add his two cents?

He posted a lot of info that is new to me, but I think everyone will agree that Mack's best years were when Zenon Hansen was in charge.

I don't see the negativity either. Kscarbel is using this thread for it's intended purpose.

[220cummins]

Though I disagree on certain aspects of Kscarbel posts, I agree with a lot of the information and I also agree with Green Dash's opinion of Kscarbel posts as informative. The thread topic is "Is Volvo Good Or Bad For Mack Trucks?". If that's not an opinionated question, I don't know what is?

[GearheadGrrrl]

Both sides are right. On one hand, Mack probably couldn't have survived without Volvo's capital and size to build new engines to meet the 2007 and 2010 emmissions standards... Look at the problems Navistar is having! On the other hand, Volvo needs to show more respect for Mack's designs and the loyal customers who pay extra for them... A Volvo with a Bulldog on the hood isn't going to fool a Mack customer!

[slpwlker]

Both sides are right. On one hand, Mack probably couldn't have survived without Volvo's capital and size to build new engines to meet the 2007 and 2010 emmissions standards... Look at the problems Navistar is having! On the other hand, Volvo needs to show more respect for Mack's designs and the loyal customers who pay extra for them... A Volvo with a Bulldog on the hood isn't going to fool a Mack customer!

How true that is

[umodelnut]

Both sides are right. On one hand, Mack probably couldn't have survived without Volvo's capital and size to build new engines to meet the 2007 and 2010 emmissions standards... Look at the problems Navistar is having! On the other hand, Volvo needs to show more respect for Mack's designs and the loyal customers who pay extra for them... A Volvo with a Bulldog on the hood isn't going to fool a Mack customer!

VERY TRUE.

[Jacrin]

I work for Mack trucks and I can honestly say that Volvo is destroying it as of 2-14-2019. The float (the number of trucks waiting for repair in the factory yard) is up to 836 and climbing steadily. We are actually running out of room to store them. This is all due to terrible work ethic awful management and planning. The work environment there is toxic, the co-workers, managers and union fanatics really do suck the life out of you, almost to the point sometimes where you're ready just to break down they also Volvo I mean as well as Mack care nothing for there employees there health or family issues. I missed a day recently to visit my great grandmother who was doing very poorly and I was pen listed for it. They have a very ridiculous point system do lots of these situations morale is terrible and nobody working there at this point really cares anymore and that is all thanks to Volvo. Layoffs are endless and the company lies lies to us and customers endlessly. I work at the Macungie plant. If you ever happen to be there and you see all those trucks sitting out back and you ask a manager or sales rep who so ever they will tell you right out that they are waiting pick up two faced that is the float that mentioned earlier. Every one has something wrong with it. I sort of droned with this speech of mine but to wrap it up as a Mack truck employee, Volvo will and is destroying Mack and its reputation and again. As an employee, I would not recommend buying a new Mack truck, that is unless they're going to give a free Kenworth with your purchase of the 120+ thousand dollar price scrap metal and I would not recommend working there either.

 

[fjh]

I Feel your pain Bro!  We've been putting up with this stuff they been building for quite some time most of us here if not all of us see it ! However don't think for one minute the grass is a whole bunch greener over on the   KW line IHC Line    THE Pete line !    They are ALL getting cheaper and cheaper ! They are All tring to OUT Cheap each other ! Its ALL junk Out there The pride of a Job Well done is mostly gone due to the attitude of these big company's on this continent  It's stock market driven THEIR BOTTOM LINE ! Sadly this attitude creates poor work ethic and so on!  Go to work get paid go home ! That's It! To add to it (Its compounding ) because the other little piece of it is  society as a whole the attitude in general Sucks  already! 

 

[Jamaican Bulldog]

Gone are the days when these trucks were built to last 30 yrs or more. Years ago when I toured Macungie they took pride in that philosophy.

[kscarbel2]

37 minutes ago, Jamaican Bulldog said:

Gone are the days when these trucks were built to last 30 yrs or more. Years ago when I toured Macungie they took pride in that philosophy.

Which takes me back to my first post in 2010............

https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/2094-is-volvo-good-or-bad-for-mack-trucks/?page=7&tab=comments#comment-53474

 

[CaptainCrutch]

I toured the Hagerstown facility 3 years ago, everyone seemed pretty indecisive about the new robots, it made their jobs easier but also made it so they didn’t need so many people. Other than that everyone seemed satisfied with their jobs and I know people who still work there who are pretty happy. From what I’ve heard the engines even today are still pretty decent competitors, but that the electronics are the real problem. Even more reason to own an old Mack. I’ve also heard good things about the new Anthem, and have even SEEN it rise in popularity because I see them often, and usually not the same one. But I don’t think anything will ever be able to beat the older Macks, thanks to government regulations.

[Jamaican Bulldog]

12 hours ago, CaptainCrutch said:

I toured the Hagerstown facility 3 years ago, everyone seemed pretty indecisive about the new robots, it made their jobs easier but also made it so they didn’t need so many people. Other than that everyone seemed satisfied with their jobs and I know people who still work there who are pretty happy. From what I’ve heard the engines even today are still pretty decent competitors, but that the electronics are the real problem. Even more reason to own an old Mack. I’ve also heard good things about the new Anthem, and have even SEEN it rise in popularity because I see them often, and usually not the same one. But I don’t think anything will ever be able to beat the older Macks, thanks to government regulations.

I hope the Anthem is catching on because I can count on one hand how many I have seen one and I work next to an interstate highway. I drove to FL not long ago from NY an only saw one. Meanwhile I lost count of how many of the new Volvo that came out at the same time.

[Jamaican Bulldog]

13 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

Which takes me back to my first post in 2010............

https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/2094-is-volvo-good-or-bad-for-mack-trucks/?page=7&tab=comments#comment-53474

 

Yep KS. A great analysis of Volvo and Mack.  If Volvo was to ever sell Mack, which heavy truck manufacturer could make the Mack brand great again? Scania which I always saw as  a natural hook up fro Mack is now controlled I believe by VW. All the others such as Mercedes, Paccar have numerous brands already in the U.S. Then again would any truck maker be interested in pursuing Mack...apart from maybe the Chinese?

[Bullheaded]

Yep, if we do truly have to have this global economy stuff, I wish Mack and Renault would have just stayed together as they were.

I never used to think Volvo was bad, but now that I think about it......Mack has completely vanished from heavy haul, logging and oil field.

There's definitely something wrong with that picture.

I have disagreed with a lot of Kscarbel opinions in the past, but I see he likes International, so he's good in my books!! LOL.

[james j neiweem]

KS has the facts of Mack history on his side. Probably the only thing Volvo was interested in was the Hagerstown plant. Sad.

[DailyDiesel]

To me, this is the most damning evidence against Volvo in the entire article. Mack couldn't gain any market share if they wanted to...the means of production are simply not there.

Quote

Mack, which in early 2018 started building its new highway truck called Anthem, has been continually hampered by supply chain constraints and has watched its market share in the North American heavy-duty truck market dwindle. Most recently, in January, WardsAuto.com data showed Mack’s market share dropped to 5 percent with 1,019 of its heavy-duty trucks sold that month in the United States, Transport Topics reported. Still, Mack’s Lower Macungie factory will be plenty busy this year, working through a hefty backlog of orders collected over the course of last year.

 

[CaptainCrutch]

Sad considering just a few years ago it seemed like every truck driver out there had driven a Mack R, and Volvo is making it so everyone merely remembers Mack. But what a good memory it is.

[kscarbel2]

1 hour ago, CaptainCrutch said:

Sad considering just a few years ago it seemed like every truck driver out there had driven a Mack R, and Volvo is making it so everyone merely remembers Mack. But what a good memory it is.

Exactly. America's iconic Mack Trucks, today, is nothing more than a memory......and a Volvo product wearing a Mack nameplate.

"What Volvo has done, reduce an American icon down to a mere shell of its former self, should be a crime."

[kscarbel2]

14 hours ago, Bullheaded said:

Yep, if we do truly have to have this global economy stuff, I wish Mack and Renault would have just stayed together as they were.

I never used to think Volvo was bad, but now that I think about it......Mack has completely vanished from heavy haul, logging and oil field.

There's definitely something wrong with that picture.

I have disagreed with a lot of Kscarbel opinions in the past, but I see he likes International, so he's good in my books!! LOL.

America was built on the back of the Mack truck, as well as the International. The legendary Loadstar was the backbone of the American farmer, carried children to and from school, and allowed states and municipalities to maintain our roads. The stunning Transtar 4070A and Transtar II 4070B were industry benchmarks in the COE segment.

A young Zenon C.R. Hansen joined International Harvester in 1927. So impressed were they that the company placed him in its management training program. At age 19, with two years service, Hansen was sent to work internationally in Europe. Over the following seven years, spent on the continent and in Africa, Zenon acquired invaluable on-the-job training and learned to fluently speak French, German and Italian. Given the opportunity to go out on his own and to establish a Diamond T dealership in Portland, Oregon, Zenon reluctantly left International Harvester after 17 years. He quickly became Diamond T's largest distributor.

[CaptainCrutch]

I don’t see much innovation in trucking anymore. Almost every new truck looks the same as every other new truck, where as you used to be able to instantly tell the difference between them from miles away. I would love to see thing like the B, the R, the Superliner, the E, the Bulldog, all of which were so far advanced and greatly different than anything else. The best thing Mack has now is the E9 and that’s been around for decades. Another reason I’m excited to see an all electric Mack, it’s something different, I just with they built a new body for it.

[Lmackattack]

12 hours ago, DailyDiesel said:

To me, this is the most damning evidence against Volvo in the entire article. Mack couldn't gain any market share if they wanted to...the means of production are simply not there.

 

The moment I heard Mack claim increased market share with the new anthem I said where are they at on the road? I saw many small construction companies switch over to Paccar in the last decade and noticed in the last 2 years that company's that were once 95% Mack fleet owners started buying Pete or KW because Mack was priced higher and did not offer the same options as others. Even the garbage truck and mixer fleets are no longer mack...that was a huge market share for mack that is now lost. Volvo pushed out all the old engineers, moved HQ and put volvo people they wanted in charge thinking they were better at it. They are not.  I really dont know why they insist on keeping Mack around. all the millions in plant investing to build a truck that most people would not even look at. its sad.