Is Volvo Good Or Bad For Mack Trucks?

[bulldog man]

lol ya i thought could hear the pipes like i said before that's music to my ears

BTW : someone explain to me what a muffler is everything i get my hands on winds up strightpiped esp a

i knew i was in the ballpark on horsepower its bad when ya listen to a motor on the internet & just about know which motor it is

Later yall

[EM6285]

I think it all began with this.....

When the MACK Mid Liner and CS series got replaced by this "MACK" Freedom.

By the way the MACK CS Conventional, has a RENAULT Counterpart or Twin...

MACK CS

RENAULT....

[HK Trucking]

I think it all began with this.....

When the MACK Mid Liner and CS series got replaced by this "MACK" Freedom.

By the way the MACK CS Conventional, has a RENAULT Counterpart or Twin...

MACK CS

RENAULT....

But at least when Renault owned Mack, they had sense enough to leave the class 8 Mack trucks alone, and let the American engineers call the shots.

[EM6285]

But at least when Renault owned Mack, they had sense enough to leave the class 8 Mack trucks alone, and let the American engineers call the shots.

At lesast the RENAULT Group let the MACK Trucks Co do their job, Built great TRUCKS.

I was looking forward to buy a new Granite MACK, but I think I will do a complete overhaul on my 1989 MACK R DUMP TRUCK.

[EM6285]

This is the VOLVO D13 engine.

This is the VOLVO D11 Engine.

This is the VOLVO D16 Engine.. (What soon will be cloned as the MACK MP10)

This is the MACK MP7 engine.

Are they the same ???? or Do they share external components that makes them look alike ??????

Please read this.

All in the Family

Mack and Volvo engines may come out of one factory, but they aren't twins

By Paul Abelson

Mack and Volvo engines for 2007 have much in common, both with other 2007 engine brands and with each other. As with most other engine makers’ offerings, this includes cooled exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) to control oxides of nitrogen (NOx), diesel particulate filters (DPF) to control soot and particulate matter (PM) and variable geometry turbochargers (VGT) that control throttle response and improve drivability.

But commonality does not mean that these engines are identical. All diesel engines use compression ignition and will burn the same ultra low sulfur diesel (ULSD), but they differ in many important details. Mack and Volvo strategies for meeting 2007 (and 2010) EPA emissions regulations are similar to others’ but differ in detail.

Mack and Volvo are mentioned together because they are sister companies, part of Sweden’s AB Volvo. Both makes’ engines are made at the Volvo Powertrain Hagerstown, Md., factory. The engines are similar, but they differ according to the particular market they’re developed for, and the nature of the truck they go into.

Both makes share the same production lines. Engine blocks and cylinder heads are identical. Both use an overhead cam design with four valves per cylinder. They have 38 cylinder head fasteners to better contain increased pressures in the cylinders and the fuel injection system. Both use steel ladder-type reinforcement that increases stiffness at the main bearings for greater resistance to distortion.

The common design has internal drive gears that turn the camshaft, air compressor and power steering pump. The camshaft has a viscous vibration damper. Placing the damper there helps absorb torsional vibrations created by the high-pressure fuel injection system, and directs them to the flywheel where they are managed with traditional hardware.

The engines come in three sizes, roughly 700 cu-in, 800 cu-in and 1,000 cu-in. In Volvo nomenclature, based on liters of displacement, they are the D11, D13 and D16. Mack’s system designates hundreds of cubic inches: MP7, MP8 and, for later release, MP10.

A sliding nozzle controls the variability feature of the VGTs, allowing the turbochargers to respond virtually instantly to throttle demands and engine requirements. Drivers of pre-10/02 engines are amazed at the responsiveness and lack of turbo lag of VGT-equipped engines.

Mack Specifics

Mack’s fourth generation Vehicle Management and Control System, V-MAC IV, allows tailoring of the engines for specific customer applications. For LTL operations primarily on Interstate highways and application where fuel economy is the top priority, Econodyne engines have an operating range from 1200 to 1800 rpm. MaxiCruise engines are for full-load applications and travel on rolling Interstates. Its rpm range is 1200 to 1950. For applications requiring highest power — off-highway, mountains and other severe-duty applications — Maxidyne engines run from 1200 up to 2100 rpm.

For 2007, MP7 engines will offer from 325 hp to 405 hp. Torque will range from 1260 to 1560 lb-ft. Thirteen-liter MP8 engines will be available starting in 2007. Power will be 415 hp to 485 hp, with torque of 1540 lb-ft to 1700 lb-ft. MP8s will be available for all three applications. Details of MP10 engines have not yet been announced. For Mack buyers needing big power, Cummins ISX engines are available.

The V-MAC IV system allows Mack to program customer-requested variables including idle shutdown, improved theft deterrence, tamper detection and normal operating parameters.

Mack’s proprietary PowerLeash engine brake is light-weight. The company claims best-in-class braking performance.

Volvo Features

The Volvo engine lineup for 2007 is based on vocation and the Volvo trucks that they will power. The 11-liter D11 is intended for P&D, LTL and regional distribution, in VNM (medium hood) and VNL (long hood) truck models. Horsepower will range form 325 to 405. Torque will be 1250 lb-ft to 1450 lb-ft. The D13, derived from the D12, which will no longer be available, is for economical line haul and long haul, as well as general vocational applications. The D13 will go into VNM, VNL and VHD trucks and tractors. Horsepower availability is from 335 to 485, with 1350 lb-ft to 1650 lb-ft of torque.

Volvo’s “big power†is the D16, developed to meet 2007 and 2010 regulations. While early D16s had as much as 625 hp and 2250 lb-ft, 2007 models will start at 450 hp and to “only†600 hp. Its torque goes from 1650 lb-ft to 2050 lb-ft. The big engine is intended for heavy haul and over-the-mountains Interstate travel. It will be available only in Volvo VNL and VT (premium sleeper) trucks and tractors.

The Volvo Engine Brake (VEB) is a two-part system, consisting of a compression brake and an exhaust pressure governor. The combination allows more effective braking at lower engine speed, especially below 1600 rpm. The engine brake weighs only 25 lbs. The VEB is so quiet, it can be used in communities where use of compression brakes is restricted.

The exhaust pressure governor works with the compression brake. It restricts the exhaust to build backpressure when the parking brake is on and coolant temperature is below 149 degrees F. That places a load on the engine, which raises engine temperature until temperature reaches 158 degrees F. It provides more rapid warm-up after engine start. The unit saves fuel by keeping warm air in the cylinder, allowing idling as low as 500 rpm.

See this article at:

http://www.roadking.com/story.php?id=748

Edited September 16, 2007 by EM6285

[HK Trucking]

Both makes share the same production lines. Engine blocks and cylinder heads are identical.

There it is in a nutshell.

Check out the Volvo and Mack Trucks corporate websites and look at the engine photos there.

Notice that the photos of the Volvo engines are all right side views.

Notice that the photos of the "Mack" MP7 & MP8 are all left side views.

That precludes the possibility of unsuspecting prospective truck buyers of looking at the photos side by side and noticing that the only difference between the engines is the paint color, and a tweak or two in the ECM.

Does anyone here know the exact date that Volvo acquired Mack Trucks Inc?

I believe that date should be declared a national day of mourning, to be observed yearly in honor of the Greatest Name In Trucks.

[RC51]

I know a lot of Mack diehards will laugh at this,because of the reputation of the DS-8[475].If ever a Swedish company should have bought Mack,it should have been Scania.Scania and Mack have had dealings and technology sharing since the late 1940's.The Thermodyne diesel combustion chamber design and other transmission and drivetrain technology came from Scania,a lot of it exchanged for Mack's expertise in transit bus design[C series,etc].Scania trucks,even though they didn't sell well here,most likely because a limited dealer network,crazy parts prices and poor marketing,would have sold well through select Mack distributors.I own a P-112H,it is a heavy spec truck,comfortable,so comfortable that the US trucks are just starting to catch up 20 years later,and the smoothest transmission you ever shifted.The New York and New Jersey guys on here will know where I'm coming from,they are popular there,even today.Al

[Lmackattack]

"engines are made at the Volvo Powertrain Hagerstown, Md., factory"

that sums it up for us!

[bulldog man]

"engines are made at the Volvo Powertrain Hagerstown, Md., factory"

that sums it up for us!

YUP What was once known as THE Engine/powertrain plant

later

[Coalbucket]

I was shocked when I read about MACK trucks offered with other non MACK drive train components. A MACK teamed up with Eaton, Fuller, Rockwell, Allison , Meritor etc... ?

SHEESH, c'mon, kiddies, at least do some research, go on amazon and buy a copy of one of Montville's books.and try to be historically accurate before you rant.

For one Mack has been using Cummins since before WWII and used Cummins, Cat, and Detroit in a big way through the 70's, 80's, and 90's, not just for Mack Western, but also for Allentown produced trucks, for two they have never made an automatic so no wonder that all MR's LE's and a huge number of Granites have Allisons, and for three they have been heavy on Eaton and Rockwell rears and trans since they appointed Ralph Reins as PRESIDENT in 1989 and he was from ROCKWELL and that was way before Volvo, that was even before Renault took over 100% ownership.

[ThaddeusW]

SHEESH, c'mon, kiddies, at least do some research, go on amazon and buy a copy of one of Montville's books.and try to be historically accurate before you rant.

For one Mack has been using Cummins since before WWII and used Cummins, Cat, and Detroit in a big way through the 70's, 80's, and 90's, not just for Mack Western, but also for Allentown produced trucks, for two they have never made an automatic so no wonder that all MR's LE's and a huge number of Granites have Allisons, and for three they have been heavy on Eaton and Rockwell rears and trans since they appointed Ralph Reins as PRESIDENT in 1989 and he was from ROCKWELL and that was way before Volvo, that was even before Renault took over 100% ownership.

Didnt I hear that Eaton was actually building chassis for Mack for a while? I believe many CH chassis were Eaton built. Someone correct me if I am worng.

[HK Trucking]

SHEESH, c'mon, kiddies, at least do some research, go on amazon and buy a copy of one of Montville's books.and try to be historically accurate before you rant.

For one Mack has been using Cummins since before WWII and used Cummins, Cat, and Detroit in a big way through the 70's, 80's, and 90's, not just for Mack Western, but also for Allentown produced trucks, for two they have never made an automatic so no wonder that all MR's LE's and a huge number of Granites have Allisons, and for three they have been heavy on Eaton and Rockwell rears and trans since they appointed Ralph Reins as PRESIDENT in 1989 and he was from ROCKWELL and that was way before Volvo, that was even before Renault took over 100% ownership.

Most of us here are fully aware that Mack trucks have always been available with vendor supplied engines, transmissions, rears etc, if the customer specifically ordered the truck with such components.

That said, when Macks were equipped with Cummins, Cat, or Detroit engines in the past, the engines weren't painted a different color and called a Mack engine, such as what's happening now with the MP7 and MP8 which are Volvo engines simply painted a different color and called Mack engines.

[GearheadGrrrl]

True, Macks have long been available with vendor components. However, starting with the CH Spicer assembled the whole chassis complete with their or other vendor axles and delivered it complete to the North Carolina assembly plant that built the CH. If you wanted a CH with proper Mack drive train, you were threatened with high upcharges and long delays in assembling your truck. A lot of formerly Mack customers then went on to the Peterbuilt, KW, or Freightliner dealer and never came back. Today, about the only thing left that's Mack on a Mack truck is the Mack axles and transmission if you can get them- otherwise it's as much an assembled truck as a Paccar product.

[ThaddeusW]

True, Macks have long been available with vendor components. However, starting with the CH Spicer assembled the whole chassis complete with their or other vendor axles and delivered it complete to the North Carolina assembly plant that built the CH. If you wanted a CH with proper Mack drive train, you were threatened with high upcharges and long delays in assembling your truck. A lot of formerly Mack customers then went on to the Peterbuilt, KW, or Freightliner dealer and never came back. Today, about the only thing left that's Mack on a Mack truck is the Mack axles and transmission if you can get them- otherwise it's as much an assembled truck as a Paccar product.

Thats what I was talking about. They had spicer make the chassis whole and mack dropped the cab on top and the engine. Fuller gear box and eaton/spicer axles. Thats why finding a used CH with an all mack driveline is near impossible. When I was thinking of driving I was looking at used CH's and man out of the hundreds that I saw maybe 4 or 5 had all Mack components.

[RC51]

The Parrish frame division of Spicer Corp. has stamped rails for Mack and many other truck builders for years.

[EM6285]

SHEESH, c'mon, kiddies, at least do some research, go on amazon and buy a copy of one of Montville's books.and try to be historically accurate before you rant.

For one Mack has been using Cummins since before WWII and used Cummins, Cat, and Detroit in a big way through the 70's, 80's, and 90's, not just for Mack Western, but also for Allentown produced trucks, for two they have never made an automatic so no wonder that all MR's LE's and a huge number of Granites have Allisons, and for three they have been heavy on Eaton and Rockwell rears and trans since they appointed Ralph Reins as PRESIDENT in 1989 and he was from ROCKWELL and that was way before Volvo, that was even before Renault took over 100% ownership.

You can say there are a lot of on non 100% MACK breed trucks from MACK trucks and I know it. But what happened here with those non MACK Diesel powered trucks ? MACK Trucks powered by Cummins, CAT or Detroit are a rare sight.

I don't mind if some MACK Trucks use Allison automatics, remember MR and LE Refuse trucks require the use of an automatic to make them more practical.

The topic here is than our beloved MACK truck is becoming a GENERIC TRUCK like mosto of the others.

I do not want a VOLVACK or a MACKOLVO I want a 100 % True MACK built truck.... How come that pesky air ride suspension beat CamellBack ??????? Hahhh never .....

[Coalbucket]

I do not want a VOLVACK or a MACKOLVO I want a 100 % True MACK built truck....

Actually, since Volvo bought Renault (who had owned Mack) in 2000 and invested in the Mack 300 transmission series which came out in 2002, the sales of Mack transmissions are way up. The T310 is taking the place of many of the Eaton 10-speeds formerly sold behind the MaxiCruise and Econdyne engines in highway chassis. Just check out the dealerships.

[EM6285]

Most of us here are fully aware that Mack trucks have always been available with vendor supplied engines, transmissions, rears etc, if the customer specifically ordered the truck with such components.

That said, when Macks were equipped with Cummins, Cat, or Detroit engines in the past, the engines weren't painted a different color and called a Mack engine, such as what's happening now with the MP7 and MP8 which are Volvo engines simply painted a different color and called Mack engines.

You said it brother....

But ask them what happened to those MACK powered by other engines and powertrain components...They are a rare sight.

But now is a complete new story....Every MACK now is going out of assembly plant with the MP7/MP8 (VOLVO Engines)

The only thing I hope for all of this is that those Red MP7 /MP8 engines are in true statement MACK DIESEL ENGINES Designed and developed by Mack Trucks Inc, and that VOLVO just change the paint and some components of them to use them in their ugly trucks.

Such a good truck company is now getting ruined by a NON AMERICAN company.

Soon the all true AMERICAN TRUCK will be vanished.

Next one INTERNATIONAL bought by MAN Diesel...

Eurpoean Trucks are hideous

[ThaddeusW]

Soon the all true AMERICAN TRUCK will be vanished.

Next one INTERNATIONAL bought by MAN Diesel...

Eurpoean Trucks are hideous

I hope not! Allot of people knock International but they have been around a long time and have managed so without being bought out. Heck they even bought out British Atkinson and further improved the Australian Atkinson 3800 which is a legend down under. So far MAN and International have a partnership, nothing more. They even co-devloped the MaxxForce. Its not just a rebranded MAN, they actually designed most of what you see. It will even have a compression brake something that MAN didn't have on the D20. International also bought Brazilian MWM who makes most of the engines sold in South America. Lets hope they keep it up good to see an American company standing on its own two feet (even if it is shaky). They should have bought Mack, would have been an excellent combination.

[granitefan713]

But you know, all of this was bound to happen. Its happened all across the board, American companies, with foreign alliances/ownership.

Mack---Volvo

Pete/KW---DAF

Freightliner/Sterling/Western-Star---DiamlerAG

International---MAN

General Motors---Isuzu

Ford---International---MAN

Hino---Toyota

UD---Volvo

I can't see any easy way we can stop this (aside from boycotting them--but where would that leave us? Truckless.).

Despite the fact that Volvo has headed Mack in a completely new direction (whether good or bad), I will continue to be a Mack fan. Seeing how I am young yet a, I am most familiar with the "Granite era" of Mack trucks, I would never buy anything older than a Granite. Therefore, I am just going to focus on the performance of these "Volvo" Macks, which, in the end, is what really matters isn't it? So far, I have yet to hear a bad thing about these new "2007" MP7 and MP8 engines. I was very impressed with the MP8 powered Granite I rode in, and so were many others. I can't see any other way. And you can't really blame Volvo for all the problems with the newer Macks, blame the Gov't who put all of these emissions regs in place.

[Mack 3P]

Mack---Volvo

Pete/KW---DAF

Freightliner/Sterling/Western-Star---DiamlerAG

International---MAN

General Motors---Isuzu

Ford---International---MAN

Hino---Toyota

UD--Foreign to begin with

Volvo owns UD (Nissan Diesel)

[HK Trucking]

Volvo owns UD (Nissan Diesel)

Well, I guess that's another one that will be "assimilated" and cease to exist shortly.

[granitefan713]

Volvo owns UD (Nissan Diesel)

Thanks for the correction.

[ThaddeusW]

I said it before and ill say it again its our own fault this foreign influence happened. Of course I am not casting scorn on anyone. Its just that in Europe they competed heavily with technology and trucks kept evolving and becoming more advanced and comfortable. We sat around content with old designs that were slowly updated. They also pushed into foreign markets with aggression. Look at South America, you think it was Europe with all the Euro trucks running around. Meanwhile its closer to us than Europe. Why aren't we selling tucks down there? Now that newer emissions laws are in play, the US truck makers are finding their archaic engine designs difficult to update. So we had to turn to Euro makers to get on our feet. You reap what you sow.

They have cabovers that are many times more comfortable than ours. Cabs ride on four point air suspension along with front and rear air suspension. Standard air disc brakes for nearly two decades. Synchro gearboxes and smooth shifting automated manuals.

You can only stay behind for so long until you are forced to go forward. And if your not prepared for the advance then someone has to help you. Our trucks worked fine all these years and they still do but emission laws will force us to compete with more technology.

[EM6285]

Volvo owns UD (Nissan Diesel)

Now I have more reasons to beleive this one...

I work driving trucks for my local Municipal Goverment and our brand new trucks are UD (NISSAN DIESEL TRUCKS)

And guess what ? The only dealer that represent the UD brand here is M.A Caribbean (Our local MACK dealer)

And know that NISSAN is now part of RENAULT, wich is now part of VOLVO, wich now owns a great share of MACK...

I'm getting such a headache.....