Learning Experience

[Speed]

Hi all!

Well,I went to the Nevada Highway Patrol's Elko office today to learn a little about GVWRs and what I'll be legal to haul with my without a CDL. After asking about a million questions,I've narrowed it down to this: my truck has a 20,000 pound GVWR,so theoretically I can only pull a trailer rated for about 5,000 pounds,accounting for the approximate weight of the Brownie and the added on 5th wheel plate. I figure any trailer I could hook to that 5th wheel would weight in at about 5,000 or more,so trailer pulling is pretty much out of the formula now .(except for the occasional car hauler/flatbed.)The NHP Sargent suggested my getting an endorsement for pulling a trailer with over 10,000 pound weight rating,but the cat over in drivers licencing said that won't help me-the can't be operated with a trailer without a CDL-end of discussion. So,my plans now are to register the truck on a declared weight of 25,000 pounds,at about $322.00 per year,remove the 5th wheel and build a flatbed for the truck,which will make it as it was intended to be from the factory. I'm still going to have my brother Dutch build me a monster boom for it,and we're discussing a little creative work,like building a rollback or dump flatbed for it,maybe building a flatbed from Aluminum,or installing a liftgate on it. Lots to consider here. I'm kinda reserving judgement on what I'll be able to haul,I'm figuring the bed will be 15 feet long by 8 foot two inches wide,minus about 9 square feet for the boom.

Figuring out what the boom and the flatbed will weigh is gonna be the hard part. sort of a wait-and-see-what-happens deal.

Regarding the purchase of my ,the current owner is waiting on me to finish paying for the truck,I'm waiting on a friend to finish paying for my Triumph,and he's waiting on his friend to pay for a van he just brought from Minnesota,at great personal expense.(It broke a brake drum,lost both duals off the right side,got towed,he bought another drum and studs/lugnuts,wheel wouldn't fit over the drum,ran it on just the outside dual,broke 4 studs,got a used drum which also didn't fit,but he managed to get home with it. I'll be helping him find parts and get it assembled right so he can get paid,so I can get paid,so the 's owner can get paid...It'll all work out though.

Speed

I just did some quick figuring,and unless I'm hauling Gold ingots,I probably won't be able to make this truck pay for it's own gas.

[Bollweevil]

Speed, I really enjoyed reading about your adventure at the DMV. Your entire experience is going to be of learning. Be sure to take a lot of baby pictures, I would really be interested to watch this baby grow. That is one thing that I regret about my project, having failed to document each stage. Hope You have good time, James

[chris88]

Why dont you just get your CDL?

[Speed]

Chris;

I'd like to get my CDL,but it's not a possibility,at least not a full boad CDL. I'm insulin dependent Brittle Diabetic,and the only CDL I could qualify for would be provisional,restricting me to operating only within Nevada . There are other restrictions which wouldn't relate to me,but this particular one would seriously hamper me. To qualify,my doctor has to sign a statement saying my blood glucose level has been in good control for a year continuously. That is not possible,as my glucose level can change rather suddenly. I've learned to stop and take care of it before it becomes an issue,but my doctor can't guarantee that'll always be the case. My only option,as I see it,is to do what I'm planning to do,and just run a smaller,lighter and not run commercially. I'm okay with that,I'll only have to make more trips to move the stuff I want to move ,and I have plenty of things that truck will be just the right size for.

Speed

[Joe Ditchkus]

Speed. Your truck has a GVWR of 20,000 that is the gross weight of the truck and load.Your GCW is the combined weight of tractor, trailer and load.The GCW will be considerably higher than the GVW.

[ThaddeusW]

Chris;

I'd like to get my CDL,but it's not a possibility,at least not a full boad CDL. I'm insulin dependent Brittle Diabetic,and the only CDL I could qualify for would be provisional,restricting me to operating only within Nevada . There are other restrictions which wouldn't relate to me,but this particular one would seriously hamper me. To qualify,my doctor has to sign a statement saying my blood glucose level has been in good control for a year continuously. That is not possible,as my glucose level can change rather suddenly. I've learned to stop and take care of it before it becomes an issue,but my doctor can't guarantee that'll always be the case. My only option,as I see it,is to do what I'm planning to do,and just run a smaller,lighter and not run commercially. I'm okay with that,I'll only have to make more trips to move the stuff I want to move ,and I have plenty of things that truck will be just the right size for.

Speed

Sorry to hear that, I too have an ailment that prevents me from getting my cdl. I am legally blind in my right eye form an injury that caused a cataract. Surgery could correct it but I am in no rush to spend lots of money.

Here in NY we now have a law that states that 26000lbs and under does not need a CDL (not sure if that includes air brakes). You can tow a trailer up to 10,000lbs BUT the GCW cannot exceed 26,000lbs. So if I had a truck with a GVW of 26,000lbs its legal for me to drive but if its loaded to the limit then no trailer. If I had a 16,000lb truck and a 10,000lb trailer I would be legal. A class B CDL would allow me to drive any strait truck but again if the trailer exceeds 10,000 I would need a class A.

[Speed]

Speed. Your truck has a GVWR of 20,000 that is the gross weight of the truck and load.Your GCW is the combined weight of tractor, trailer and load.The GCW will be considerably higher than the GVW.

Hi Joe;

I get the GVW and GCW stuff;the problem is that with a GVW of 20,000 and a max. of 26,000,that leaves me 5,999 for a trailer and its load without a CDL. If the CDL wasn't the issue I'd have no problem loading it to the GCW,which would be a pretty good load for that old beasie. But I have to keep my total under the 26,000 pound limit.

Speed

[Packer]

Speed,

We've all got some issues, (I'm old) but something to look at is an aluminum single axle trailer. I'm thinking that I, at one time, pulled a 40 ft. two axle flat bed that was steel, and the trailer (net) was 6,000 lbs.

That would put a 20-26 ft. single axle aluminum at half (or less).

A little polish and it would look sharp!!!

Another thing to add to your list might be an air brake endoresment.

Wyoming says if you got air brakes, you need to have that tacked on.

Packer

[Speed]

Hi Packer-how was your weekend? The highway patrolman mentioned an air brake endorsement,but since my truck is hydraulic with a Hydra-Vac and I won't be pulling any "large" trailers,I doubt I'd need one now. What you said about an aluminum trailer sounds interesting. I know Dutch is chomping at the bit to make something cool out of aluminum,he's getting a welder set up for it. (Maybe I'll let him build me some accessories for the truck with it before I put him to work on a trailer.) I was just running some numbers around,and figuring the boom,the Brownie the PO added,the flatbed and a steel tandem axle utility trailer,I'll be able to haul about 7,500 pounds without hitting my 20,000 pound GVWR. That should cover about anything I'll have a need to do. I'll see if when we build the boom and the flatbed maybe we can shave a little more weitht off. Since I won't be pulling big trailers,I won;t really need a full sized air compressor,a smaller one will do,maybe the A/C compressor set up,just for filling tires,and running the air horns.That'll save some weight. And I can go considerably lighter on the "Bull-basher front bumper Dutch was gonna build for it. HMMMmmm--maybe he can build me some aluminum gas tanks-that'd help.

Actually,none of this is that critical though. I doubt I'll be carrying loads heavy enough to be worried about very often,and maybe I'm wrong,but seems to me the law's got a lotta bigger stuff to do than hassle a little guy in an old truck trying to get his stuff from here to there. BTW-the officer told me he'd really like to see my when I get it home,and once I have all dolled up he wants a couple of pics of it to hang in the NHP office here. I thought that was pretty cool.

It sounds like the purchase is getting close to done. Man,I'm counting the minutes till I can go after my truck! I'm actually going to hold off a week or so once I have the money,so I can order some very necessary parts for the . Two custom shift knobs,a Bulldog for the grille,some mudflap brackets and 5 color mudflaps and a pair of 6 volt Halogen headlights. The plates for it @ 20,000 lbs will be $262.00 per year. My insurance will be about the same as for my '62 Chevy one ton.

I'm only gonna get to make one first impression on Elko with this ,so I wanna do it right! Now,all I have to do is clear out a space in my yard to park the truck.One car I have sold as soon as I find a radiator for it,another one might be sold,and one I need to find an engine for. I might store it until I find a running engine,and if I give my friend Jesse back all the parts he stored here for his '50 chevy truck and cut up that old workbench,I'll have plenty of room for my '62,and I can park the in front of the house! Okay,got that all figured out-now I can sleep. See ya all later!

Speed

[Packer]

In your part of the world 26 ft. flat beds should be easy to find. I think Nevada is/was a triple's state and should have a bunch of old flat beds around. Aluminum may be tough but they are out there!

Check ATHS and the Truck paper - - - might find a prize!!

I've rounded up an 'E' cab and fenders (no doors) but need to take another look at it before making the deal.

Buy-the-by, if you hook a trailer with air brakes up to your 'juice" brakes, the air endorsement may come into play. I have it, and it was not a big deal. Just don't want to get hung out to dry at a highway stop!!!

Packer

[Speed]

Now-if I hook up ,say,a 22 foot air brake trailer on a converter(?) and pull it on a pintle hook,would it work differently (regarding GVW)because of having another axle under the front of the trailer? If I don't load my truck to its GVW-could that increase the weight I could put on a big trailer? Just curious-I still don't see a way to pull a trailer any bigger than a little utility flatbed. Dutch and I are looking at ways to lighten the boom and the flatbed up a little more.

How long is the air brake endorsement good for? Whats involved in getting one? While I doubt I'll be hooking up an air trailer,if I find a "converter"(is that what they're called?),I might need to eventually.

I keep thinking "Jeeze-I have a 20,000 pound GVW on this truck;how can it happen that I can only haul 7,700 pounds now??" Well,if I include a small trailer I can bring it up to about 11,200. That's just short of six tons,at 20 bucke a ton thats 120 bucks. #00 miles to the nearest paying scrap yard,times two is six hundred miles,at 5 miles per gallon is 120 gallons at 2.50/gallon,thats 300 bucks per trip-not quite enough load to pay its own way. Maybe I can find a better price somewhere else.I can't think anymore,I'm gonna go get some sleep. I HATE when I start over-thinking things...

later;

Speed

[Bollweevil]

Speed, an air brake endorsement is a part of CDL requirements. If you operate a truck with air brakes, there is no way around a CDL. If a truck, trailer combination, including whatever you are carrying. is less than 26,000, a CDL is not required. That is, unless it has air brakes, or if the cargo happens to have any amount of Haz-mat. 26,001 and above requires CDL. Section 383 of the federal motor carrier safety regulations, address's all of your concerns. 383.91 weight groups, 383.93 endorsements, 383.95 air brakes. I understand that you have health issues that preclude a CDL, but, until you have participated in the federally mandated Highway Watch Program, you can't even apply for one. I know that this is a lot more than you would really like to hear. My suggestion to you is this, read and study ALL of the regulations that concern YOU and your situation, health and equipment wise. It is only, when you have a good understanding of the boundary's of what you can't do, that you can see the possibility's of what you can do. Either find you a niche that you can fit in and be happy, or make one that fit's you and what you want to do. After all, What is the use of being an outlaw if you can't terrify anybody.

[Speed]

Good point Bollweevil;

I do have a copy of Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations Hand book,given to me by officer Jackson,NHP. I will read up on the things you mentioned and try to get my situation sorted out. Until then though,I know what's neutral ground so I'm good with just sticking to that. The whole plan here hasn't been to "Go Trucking",just to figure out how to get the best use possible out of my new truck without incurring the wrath of the "Big Arm" of the law. I had hoped to be able to move scrap metal to recoup some of the expense of the but a combination of factors are making that unlikely,so I'll just be content with driving my "big truck" when I can,I'll kinda see it like having a ski boat-you can't use it all the time,so you pamper it and enjoy it all the more when you CAN take it out. I'm fortunate to have people like you guys to help me find my way through this maze of laws and rules and to cheer me on. The important thing is to get the I had no intention of stepping on the toes of those of you who make a living driving a truck. The only reason at all I was interested in the air brake endorsement is that I'm still trying to negotiate for a 40 foot reefer trailer I'd like to use for storage on my property,and if there's a way I can tow it there myself I'd like to do that.(I guess it's a "pride" thing.) I've always done stuff for myself-having Dutch working with me on the mods to the is a pretty big thing for me. It's hard for me to ask for,and accept help if I think there's ANY way I can do it myself.

I know-that's way more than you wanted to know about me.

Anyway,I'm getting myself tuned to doing what I can,accepting what I can't change,etc. etc..

BTW-as I said on the owners' map,the coffee's always on if you happen to be driving through the "Vast Uncharted Wilderness" of Elko Nev.;stop in for a cup!

Speed

[Bollweevil]

Speed, thanks for the invitation, a good cup of coffee always hits the spot for me. I love trucks, and I love being able to sit down in one an make it do what it is supposed to do. I have trucked for a long time now, and I have always done it MY way. I have had some fun along the way, after all a man should enjoy what he is doing. I have made a lot of trucking friends, I have loved them all, and have tried to take care of them. Life is a learning experience. You learn some good things, that help you. And you learn some bad things that don't. When I started in the trucking business, I learned everything that wouldn't work first. That took a couple of years, and man was it tough. NOW, let me say that YOU could never offend me by being so enthusiastic over the very thing that I love the best. I will try to take care of you if I can, by offering of my own experiences. good and bad. I sure wouldn't dash water on a fire that I was trying to stay warm by. Just pour on some more fuel and watch the black smoke roll. God bless you and keep you safe, thats my prayer for you this morning, James

[Speed]

Thanks for the prayers. I believe I've been blessed,in a way,with my interactions with the various police agencies around here-they've always been professional,didn't harrass me(Well-there was a local cop that lived across the street from me when I first started driving,but that's a different story.),and often cut me slack when they could've written some pretty fat tickets. (Doing 136 mph on a 45 mph frontage road,but that's a different story,too)

I believe going into any situation wight a GOOD attitude gets you far better results than just going into it with an attitude,if ya know what I mean.

What I'm getting at is that basically,you get what you give.And I don't know too many people who win out by being an a&&hole. Through this forum and a couple of others I go to,I'm meeting really good people-the kind this world just can't get enough of! A High-Five and a to good people!

Now-on to lighter subjects. I'm guardedly optomistic that I might have money to pay off my in less than 2 weeks! I've decided to go ahead and order some parts and accessories and wait for them to arrive before I head out to get the truck. I plan to put most of my efforts after the basic repairs,maintenance and service work,into building the hoist. I can do the flatbed later unless I run across a really good one in Reno while I'm there. I discovered just the metal for the boom is gonna be a large hunka money,but once it's done,I'll be able to use it for a lot of things I've been unable to do with my little one ton truck and lightweight boom.

I have a couple of questions. Is an SP switch voltage sensitive? Specifically,I'd like to run two big six volt batteries,and wire them through an SP switch,using the 12 volt side to power a twelve volt electric winch on the boom,but I'm not sure the SP switch will carry the draw for several minutes at a time without burning up. Or,is there a way to isolate the charging system so the six volt generator will charge the six volt batteries and all the accessories would run on 12 volts?

I hope you'll bear with me-a lot of what I try to accomplish is stuff that is never,or rarely done,so a lot of times I can't find printed info or find anyone who's worked with it. Dutch thinks rather that try to hardwire a 12 volt winch into a six volt system I should just carry a deep cycle battery just for the winch and just put it on a charger once a week or so. He's probably right;I guess I just have an issue with "temporary" attachments. Guess that'll probably hafta change.

Speed