Really confused and need help

[PanteraPilot]

Ok…here's the story….

I feel like I'm the only person that has ever bought (I'm about to buy) a classic truck without a CDL. I like old trucks and why not buy one. I DO NOT plan to use this commercially. I will not be charging to haul loads.

Now, I have verified from the folks at the Federal Motor Carrier Administration that I do not need a CDL (as long as it is not being used commercially). This is based on 383.3 and 383.5 of the codes.

However, insuring the truck seems to be problematic. If anybody knows how to do this, I would appreciate some assistance. I live in VA and will travel do other states just for fun.

This being the case do I have to deal with the following:

US DOT inspection?

Apportion plates and fees?

Fuel surcharges?

The laws are very confusing to me as they all appear to be for commercial vehicles. The state of VA is not being very helpful as they act like nobody has ever tagged a truck for personal use (non-commercial).

The truck is a Mack B

….and yes I understand the value of a CDL, I just don't have it at this time.

[MHfred]

I tagged one here in VA back in June and had no problems. I told DMV it was NOT commercial and I plated it for 25,900 pounds for now. The weight rating you plate it for determines the cost of the plates. My plates cost $67.11 per quarter and I insured the truck with State Farm with my other vehicles. You can treat your truck just like a pickup-as long as you are NOT commercial. I plan on going out of state with mine.

Where are you? I am in Central VA-Orange County.

Fred

Edited November 17, 2011 by MHfred

[jaysm35a2]

Your only catch with insurance if you want full coverage like some of us have, most antique insurance companies want a CDL if it has air brakes. Another issue is storing it in a secure indoor building.

My insurance company ( antique full coverage ) does not require a CDL but does want the truck indoors and secure. ( renting a storage unit would work) .

Continental Western Group out of MN 1800 533 0303 , gnelson@cwgins.com

P.S. In VA you can get the Historic Vehicle tag , the black one , real cheap for the lifetime of the vehicle. Thats what they guy had on my Mack when I bought it from him.

[PanteraPilot]

Thanks for the update guys----- although I would like to hear from others too.

I talked to VA DMV today. They advised me that the only plate the truck would be eligible for is an apportioned plate, and all the head aches that come with that. I suggested the antique plate and they said no large trucks were eligible for that (I disagree). Also, the if you want the black plates on an antique car, you have to provide the plate to DMV. They won't make them anymore.

Again, I don't think I'm hearing the right info from the DMV.

As for the insurance, what I'm hearing is the following:

Geico------only if you have a CDL

Progressive----- No if you live in Virginia

Hagerty historic insurance --- only if you have antique plate and keep it in a garage

Other commercial truck insurance companies---- No if its for personal use

As far as getting a plate and registering it for 25,900 lbs…. is it a standard truck tag (like a pick up) but with a more expensive registration fee? You did this without a CDL? I can't figure out what to say to the DMV people, they just say … huh…you want to do what?

I'm in Northern VA - Fairfax.

Edited November 17, 2011 by PanteraPilot

[jaysm35a2]

Call the number I gave you, you wont have a hassle from a few companies as long as its inside, now theres Gulfway Insurance in FL that guys use that you dont have to keep it inside. Its all antique insurance companies for big trucks. They will know what you have when you call.

And yes its BS that you cant run a Historical VA Antique Plate . Il bet if you take the title and insurance to the tag place they will give you one. Now if your not pulling a trailer or making money id keep the weight around 12k lbs, but if the tag office doesnt ask a weight then dont bring it up.

P.S. The Historical Vehicle Tag in VA looks like a old VA plate from back in the days. I think its pretty nice. Alot better than NC laws.

[MHfred]

Thanks for the update guys----- although I would like to hear from others too.

I talked to VA DMV today. They advised me that the only plate the truck would be eligible for is an apportioned plate, and all the head aches that come with that. I suggested the antique plate and they said no large trucks were eligible for that (I disagree). Also, the if you want the black plates on an antique car, you have to provide the plate to DMV. They won't make them anymore.

Again, I don't think I'm hearing the right info from the DMV.

As for the insurance, what I'm hearing is the following:

Geico------only if you have a CDL

Progressive----- No if you live in Virginia

Hagerty historic insurance --- only if you have antique plate and keep it in a garage

Other commercial truck insurance companies---- No if its for personal use

As far as getting a plate and registering it for 25,900 lbs…. is it a standard truck tag (like a pick up) but with a more expensive registration fee? You did this without a CDL? I can't figure out what to say to the DMV people, they just say … huh…you want to do what?

I'm in Northern VA - Fairfax.

I do not have a CDL and one is NOT REQUIRED unless you are a commercial vehicle. Go to this link http://www.dmv.virginia.gov/webdoc/citizen/drivers/whoarecdl.asp

Go to this link at VA DMV and it will explain antique and vintage plates. On the bottom of the page under "Additional Information" click on the link for section Code 46.2-730 and it will explain it more-including your 250 mile radius restriction from your home.

http://www.dmv.virginia.gov/webdoc/citizen/vehicles/antique.asp

The plate is like one for a pick up but only 1 is issued.

Fred

[Lmackattack]

most of us that have plated antique trucks have been given the run around at the DMV. You just need to remain calm and show the person or ask to speak to a person that can fully understand what your doing. as long as the truck falls under the requirements for antique tags your good to go. Most people at the DMV dont see many people plate them as antiques so it throws them off.

try again!

Trent

[Rob]

Ok…here's the story….

I feel like I'm the only person that has ever bought (I'm about to buy) a classic truck without a CDL. I like old trucks and why not buy one. I DO NOT plan to use this commercially. I will not be charging to haul loads.

Now, I have verified from the folks at the Federal Motor Carrier Administration that I do not need a CDL (as long as it is not being used commercially). This is based on 383.3 and 383.5 of the codes.

However, insuring the truck seems to be problematic. If anybody knows how to do this, I would appreciate some assistance. I live in VA and will travel do other states just for fun.

This being the case do I have to deal with the following:

US DOT inspection?

Apportion plates and fees?

Fuel surcharges?

The laws are very confusing to me as they all appear to be for commercial vehicles. The state of VA is not being very helpful as they act like nobody has ever tagged a truck for personal use (non-commercial).

The truck is a Mack B

….and yes I understand the value of a CDL, I just don't have it at this time.

If you was "Dazed" along with confused, you'd be just like me.

I have all my trucks plated as antiques and have done this so many times, when I walk into the DMV, (Secretary of State's Office here) it is expected I'll be plating another antique.

It is not that hard, perserverance is the key here. Press your intentions and keep talking to people until they agree.

Rob

[PanteraPilot]

Going antique is not my preference. I also prefer to drive it more regularly than the antique regulations would allow me. Is anybody doing this with standard tags?

[jaysm35a2]

Do you plan on runnig more than 2500 miles a year?

Do you mean Antique insurance isnt what you want or Antique plates?

[PanteraPilot]

Well the antique insurance and antique plates seem to be kinda tied together, but I'm more concerned about the plates. Yes, I intend to drive move than 2500 miles a year. ………….. Why not drive a Mack B to the office every day???

[MHfred]

Well the antique insurance and antique plates seem to be kinda tied together, but I'm more concerned about the plates. Yes, I intend to drive move than 2500 miles a year. ………….. Why not drive a Mack B to the office every day???

No reason if it is not plated as an antique and you can afford the fuel for around 8 MPG??

Fred

[PanteraPilot]

I tagged one here in VA back in June and had no problems. I told DMV it was NOT commercial and I plated it for 25,900 pounds for now. The weight rating you plate it for determines the cost of the plates. My plates cost $67.11 per quarter and I insured the truck with State Farm with my other vehicles. You can treat your truck just like a pickup-as long as you are NOT commercial. I plan on going out of state with mine.

Where are you? I am in Central VA-Orange County.

Fred

Fred,

I went to VA DMV web site to look at their registration choices. This is what they have listed:

Vehicle Registration Passenger - 4,000 lbs or less $40.75

Passenger - 4,001 lbs or more $45.75

Pickup Truck - 4,000 lbs or less gross weight $40.75

Pickup Truck - 4,001 lbs or more gross weigh $45.75

Pickup Truck - 6,501-7,500 lbs gross weight $51.75

They don't seem to give any other choices… which doesn't make sense.

Edited November 18, 2011 by PanteraPilot

[MHfred]

I think you are looking in the section for regular passenger vehicles. I would not bother looking for that info.

Do you have a title? You will need one. Take it to DMV and tell them you are NOT commercial and you want to register it for a max weight rating of ________ pounds and get a plate for it (I assume it is a road tractor). That should be all there is to it except to decide how long you wish to plate it. I renew my plates every quarter because some winters I may not keep plates and insurance on it.

Fred

[jaysm35a2]

Wish I could afford that.

[Freightrain]

I put regular plates on my B originally. When I went to go to Syracuse for the ATHS convention it was going to cost $500 in temp fuel tags to make the trip!!! DOH!! I quickly went down to DMV and got historical tags for it. Yes, they griped about it, but there was no rules that said I couldn't. They just never saw anyone try it. They threatened me that I better NOT be using it commercially. Ya, whatever............I just smiled and said "No problem".

I drive mine anywhere, anytime. Been three states away for the last 10 yrs without issue and I pull my race car trailer with it.

[PanteraPilot]

Fred, Yes. It is a road tractor. ( I expect to pick it up tomorrow) I guess where I'm loosing it is how to plate it. If I don't go antique and I don't go apportioned, what's left other than a pickup style plate?

…….and Larry, its my last choice to go antique plates, but I'm glad to see it working for you. I might feel better about it if thats what I end up with.

[macksmoke]

I don't know how other states play it, but this is what I was told when I bought mine. DO NOT TELL THEM IT IS A TRACTOR!!! There is not a fifth wheel on it, even if there is!!! It is a flat bed, dump truck, shit sucker, whatever. I don't have a title for mine and you will need one if it's a tractor. I have a ways to go before mine is ready for the road, but this is how I'm going to play it and my take on it..

There is no reason that it can't be reg. and ins. as a pickup!! On paper keep the GVW under 26,001 LBS. Don't pull anything over 10,000LBS. I'll reg. my truck for 14,000LBS. (weight of the truck plus some). Think about it, a pickup can carry just as much weight (depending on the size) and pull over 10,000LBS. You can also put a fifth wheel on a pickup and pull a 48FT camper.

This is just my take on this and you should use should use examples like these and see how for it takes you!!!

[fxfymn]

I am in VA and I have registered two old trucks as antiques. As long as it is over 25 years old and you swear you own another vehicle to use as a daily driver they will give you historical tags for it. You are free to drive it pretty much as you desire as long as you do not use it as your daily driver.

One other consideration is that you will NOT pay personal property tax on the vehicle nor will you be required to get an annual safety inspection if you use antique tags.

Antique insurance does put further restrictions on the operation of the vehicle, but I'm sure you can get regular insurance with antique tags.

As the previous replies stated you will be asked by DMV what weight class you want to be in. Stay under 26K and you are Non-CDL.

[MHfred]

I am in VA and I have registered two old trucks as antiques. As long as it is over 25 years old and you swear you own another vehicle to use as a daily driver they will give you historical tags for it. You are free to drive it pretty much as you desire as long as you do not use it as your daily driver.

One other consideration is that you will NOT pay personal property tax on the vehicle nor will you be required to get an annual safety inspection if you use antique tags.

Antique insurance does put further restrictions on the operation of the vehicle, but I'm sure you can get regular insurance with antique tags.

As the previous replies stated you will be asked by DMV what weight class you want to be in. Stay under 26K and you are Non-CDL.

As long as you are not commercial, you do NOT need a CDL-26K or & 76K. Can you show me otherwise? I posted links previously to VA DMV that state you do not need a CDL if you are NOT commercial.

Fred

[fxfymn]

By no means am I an expert on CDL, but I have always been told that anything under 26K, whether commercial or not, does not require a CDL. You maybe correct about non-commercial use above 26K. I never had to find out.

[Rob]

By no means am I an expert on CDL, but I have always been told that anything under 26K, whether commercial or not, does not require a CDL. You maybe correct about non-commercial use above 26K. I never had to find out.

If the truck has air brakes no matter the GVW, it will require a CDL as will anything you pull a trailer with licensed over 10,001 pounds Rob.

The post is confusing. If the trailer you are pulling is licensed for 10,001 or greater you need a class A CDL to pull it. A truck/tractor if equipt with air brakes requires a CDL to drive it. There are exceptions such as farm usage and a couple of others.

Rob

[MHfred]

If the truck has air brakes no matter the GVW, it will require a CDL as will anything you pull a trailer with licensed over 10,001 pounds

Rob.

Rob, please show that to us in writing, preferbly on the VA DMV site. I do not see that any where.

Fred

[Rob]

Rob, please show that to us in writing, preferbly on the VA DMV site. I do not see that any where.

Fred

I'll have to look in the files as I had a driver get tickets for each infraction. Once driving one of my carriers without an air brake endorsement, the other for pulling a gooseneck trailer with a load of steel licensed for 20k in his own pickup truck.

Rob

[yarnall]

I live in PA, so what I say might not matter. I do not have a CDL. I drove a tandem axle IH transtar to Indiana this year bobtailing. I got pulled over by an Indiana state cop while looking at my toll ticket. He thought I was texting. He asked for my license and antique registration. I gave him my regular car drivers license. He had no comments about it. He did not like that I did not have a shoulder harness. Wanted to ticket me saying every vehicle in Indiana needed a shoulder harness seat belt. That is not the case for PA. I drove a tractor trailer to the ATHS national show in Syracuse. I did not get pulled over, but if I had I bet I would have gotten a ticket for not having a CDL and pulling a flat bed. If you plan on pulling a trailer regularly you are probably safest to have a CDL. If you are not pulling a trailer I would recommend not getting a CDL and licensing the truck as an antique. You still can drive it around for fun, but it will save you a lot of money. My father has a CDL and pulls trailer frequently with his trucks with antique and classic PA tags. He has never been pulled over, but it should not be a problem if he is because he is not using the truck commercially. I called the PA DOT twice to ask if I needed a CDL. The first person said no. I should not have called the second time because they said yes. Like I said you need to follow VA law not PA.

Mike