Mack B GVW

[PanteraPilot]

What do most people consider their B to have as a Gross Vehicle Weight? I'm not talking combined and I know there is no simple answer to this as different configurations may give a different answer. I would just like to be in the ballpark.

The truck is a 1961 with a tag axle.

[jaysm35a2]

A couple thousand over the weight as it sits is what I do. Run to a CAT scale, then register it for 1 or 2k more. If your never pulling a trailer no need to pay the extra money they charge for weight.

[PanteraPilot]

That's where I'm going with this…… I will be pilling a trailer, but I don't have any weights in mind yet.

So, if one was registering a truck, what what you register it at?

[jaysm35a2]

You said your not talking about combined weight and you want to know what weight you should put if pulling a trailer?

[Rob]

That's where I'm going with this…… I will be pilling a trailer, but I don't have any weights in mind yet.

So, if one was registering a truck, what what you register it at?

Just like Jay stated. You would then license the trailer to the corresponding weight you would carry plus the weight of the trailer. You either pay for the weight rating as a tractor plate so you can pull many trailers, or you pay a partial on each unit as if you only had a single trailer to pull. Just like you would register a pickup truck, and a car, or utility trailer.

Rob

[PanteraPilot]

Sounds like I better give the details…..

1961 Mack B with tag axle……just a guess, but let's say the empty weight of the tractor is 12,000 lbs

Van trailer……just a guess, but let's say I want to haul a 20,000 lb load

In Virginia, I register the tractor for what I expect the loaded tractor weight to be (GVW).

…..add this to my trailer loaded weight (20,000 plus the empty weight of the trailer) and of course I have a CGVW.

Now in this example, let's say that there is 8,000 lbs of weight on the fifth wheel and 23,000 lbs on the tandem axles of the trailer (empty trailer plus load).

This leaves me with a GVW of the tractor at 20,000 lbs and a trailer weight of 23,000 (on the axles).

I will now need to register the tractor at a GVW of 20,000 and the trailer for the same. (Virginia doesn't use exact numbers on a trailer, they're in groupings like 1-3000, 3001-7000, and 7001 and up)

This leaves me with my original question. What is a suggested amount to register a GVW on a Mack B. It will certainly be above the 12,000 for the tractor plus 2,000 for "just in case".

Thanks…. maybe I'm missing something.

[jaysm35a2]

ROB ,

Wouldnt you just tag the weight for the empty tractor and trailer together + 20k lbs in this guys case?

Like 50k lbs total for example and all of that would be on the weight you tag the tractor for?

Then again this is all in VA and every state is a bit diff.

Pantera,

Yes you would be right, would be more than 12k for the tractor plus a extra 2 k just in case if your pulling a trailer with 20k lbs. But in your first question you said " I'm not talking combined " , that would me just a tractor and I gave you my opinion and what I have done , then you said in another part " I will be pilling a trailer " , that would be a combined weight right?

Am I right Rob? I honestly thingk I missed something and im not sure.

[Rob]

Let's make this simple. You have a 12,000 pound tractor. You also have a 12,000 pound trailer, (empty). Your total weight across any scale when the two are connected is 24,000#. If your consistent mode of movement was comprised of this tractor, and this trailer connected with no load, a 12,000# rating plate on the truck, and the trailer would suffice. Or, if you pulled other trailers weighing the same 12,000#, it would be more cost advantageous to license the truck as a tractor pulling unit for the same 24,000# rating and put semi trailer plates on the trailers at much less cost. Now say you want to haul another 12,000# truck on that 12,000# trailer for a gross combined weight of 36,000#. Of course your tractor plate weight rating is not heavy enough but if you go to say a 16,000# weight rating license plate, and a 24,000# license plate rating on the trailer, you are still covered. You would however most likely be less expensive to license the truck as a tractor with a weight rating of 40,000# combined weight, and license the trailer as a semi trailer for about $10.00-$12.00 a year, (some states are permanent plates).

If you are going to pull multiple trailers, you are best to license the truck as a tractor. If you only pull one trailer, with either a fairly consistent load, or varying loads, you may be more cost effective to license as a truck, and trailer. Each state varies with costs. Keep in mind, anything licensed over 16,000# is required to stop at scales, and anything over 26,000# requires a log book, trip permits, IFTA, medical card etc. to go out of state.

Rob

[PanteraPilot]

Well thanks for the feedback, but I do have to respectfully disagree on a couple of items.

If I have a 12,000 lb tractor and a 12,000 lb empty trailer attached to it, I would be over weight across the scales with a 12,000 lb registration on the tractor. Once I add in the tongue weight of the trailer, this will put me overweight (on a 12,000 lb registered tractor). I will need to calculate the tongue weight and add it to the tractor weight…. this is where I should register the tractor. I'm making up numbers, but if I had a 2,000 lb tongue weight sitting on a 12,000 lb tractor, I better have the tractor registered at 14,000 lbs. Maybe I'm missing something though. I'm really not suggesting I'm absolutely right, but my math seems right.

Now the 16,000 lb and 24,000 lb example seems to make sense to me…… but what are the suggested numbers? Is my guess of 12,000 lbs on an empty tractor close? I know its hard to guess on a loaded trailer, but is adding say 5-6,000 lbs as tongue weight (to the tractor weight) in the right neighborhood?

In VA, the trailer appears to be the easy part. Its something like $50 registration for over 7,000 lbs (or something like that).

It sounds like I'm making this more complicated than it should be. I must be missing something.

Oh…..lastly. I have reviewed and reviewed the federal laws on the CDL rules. I also spoke to the Feds on this (one nice thing about being in DC). The log book, IFTA and medical are only required for commercial use. Although I may be within the numbers that normally govern these requirements, because I will not be charging for hauling (its personal use), I will not have to deal with the log books and stuff. I will have to pull into the scales though. Knowing I may have to pull out the rule book, I have already printed out copies of the applicable laws to carry with me.

I hope my responses don't come out contrary or as if I know it all. I don't and this still confuses me.

… but what are the suggested numbers? Is my guess of 12,000 lbs on an empty tractor close? I know its hard to guess on a loaded trailer, but is adding say 5-6,000 lbs as tongue weight (to the tractor weight) in the right neighborhood?

[Rob]

Well thanks for the feedback, but I do have to respectfully disagree on a couple of items.

If I have a 12,000 lb tractor and a 12,000 lb empty trailer attached to it, I would be over weight across the scales with a 12,000 lb registration on the tractor. Once I add in the tongue weight of the trailer, this will put me overweight (on a 12,000 lb registered tractor). I will need to calculate the tongue weight and add it to the tractor weight…. this is where I should register the tractor. I'm making up numbers, but if I had a 2,000 lb tongue weight sitting on a 12,000 lb tractor, I better have the tractor registered at 14,000 lbs. Maybe I'm missing something though. I'm really not suggesting I'm absolutely right, but my math seems right.

Now the 16,000 lb and 24,000 lb example seems to make sense to me…… but what are the suggested numbers? Is my guess of 12,000 lbs on an empty tractor close? I know its hard to guess on a loaded trailer, but is adding say 5-6,000 lbs as tongue weight (to the tractor weight) in the right neighborhood?

In VA, the trailer appears to be the easy part. Its something like $50 registration for over 7,000 lbs (or something like that).

It sounds like I'm making this more complicated than it should be. I must be missing something.

Oh…..lastly. I have reviewed and reviewed the federal laws on the CDL rules. I also spoke to the Feds on this (one nice thing about being in DC). The log book, IFTA and medical are only required for commercial use. Although I may be within the numbers that normally govern these requirements, because I will not be charging for hauling (its personal use), I will not have to deal with the log books and stuff. I will have to pull into the scales though. Knowing I may have to pull out the rule book, I have already printed out copies of the applicable laws to carry with me.

I hope my responses don't come out contrary or as if I know it all. I don't and this still confuses me.

… but what are the suggested numbers? Is my guess of 12,000 lbs on an empty tractor close? I know its hard to guess on a loaded trailer, but is adding say 5-6,000 lbs as tongue weight (to the tractor weight) in the right neighborhood?

No problem with misconception but you are taking arbitrary figures literally. If it were me and the tractor weighs 12,000#, and the trailer weighs 12,000# and you wish to carry a 12,000# truck on this trailer, I would license the truck as a tractor at a minimum of 40,000# with a semi trailer plate on the trailer. As long as you do not exceed 34,000# on any tandem axle you will not overload with this weight anyplace the weight is placed on the trailer.

You could also license the truck at 16,000#, and the trailer at 30,000# and get by just the same. You are now over 10,001 pounds on a single axle, (requires CDL) and you have air brakes, (requires CDL w/endorsement), and you are licensed over 26,001#, (requires CDL). If you don't have an IFTA sticker on the truck, and are out of your baseplated state, you best have all the CDL requirements satisfied and with you. Traveling without makes you a really nice item of revenue to state police agencies. It's not my ticket(s) to argue, and VA may be different than the central US, but I'd talk to a state police agency that does commercial vehicle enforcement for a straight scoop. Most of these guys aren't out looking to give you trouble, just enforce the laws. I know several officers and I can ask anything pertaining to truck operation but I prolly wouldn't get too far alongside the hiway knowingly hiding something from them.

Rob

[PanteraPilot]

Ok Rob, thanks for the help on the GVW. I think I know how I'm going to proceed.

On the CDL issue, both VA Motor Carrier Services (VA's branch of commercial vehicle enforcement) and Federal Motor Carrier in Washington referred me to the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) 383.3 and 383.5. These are the same numbers used throughout most motor carrier rules. CFR 383.3 governs rules for CDLs and truck driving and explains that CDL rules are for vehicles used for commerce. It starts by saying "(a) The rules in this part apply to every person who operates a commercial motor vehicle (CMV) in interstate, foreign, or intrastate commerce, to all employers of such persons, and to all States." http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/383-3-applicability-19947122 Section CFR 383.5 provides a definition on what constitutes a commerce as well as the definition of what constitutes a commercial motor vehicle. Its a long explanations so I'll just give the link. http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=383.5 Basically it comes down to ….. if you use a truck for personal use and you don't get paid, you don't need a CDL. Don't get me wrong, I recognize the usefullness of having the CDL though.

I pick up the truck in a couple weeks and I feel comfortable with how to register it now. Thanks.

[Rob]

Ok Rob, thanks for the help on the GVW. I think I know how I'm going to proceed.

On the CDL issue, both VA Motor Carrier Services (VA's branch of commercial vehicle enforcement) and Federal Motor Carrier in Washington referred me to the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) 383.3 and 383.5. These are the same numbers used throughout most motor carrier rules. CFR 383.3 governs rules for CDLs and truck driving and explains that CDL rules are for vehicles used for commerce. It starts by saying "(a) The rules in this part apply to every person who operates a commercial motor vehicle (CMV) in interstate, foreign, or intrastate commerce, to all employers of such persons, and to all States." http://cfr.vlex.com/...bility-19947122 Section CFR 383.5 provides a definition on what constitutes a commerce as well as the definition of what constitutes a commercial motor vehicle. Its a long explanations so I'll just give the link. http://www.fmcsa.dot....aspx?reg=383.5 Basically it comes down to ….. if you use a truck for personal use and you don't get paid, you don't need a CDL. Don't get me wrong, I recognize the usefullness of having the CDL though.

I pick up the truck in a couple weeks and I feel comfortable with how to register it now. Thanks.

Don't mean to be a smartass, but test your luck with a load of lumber on your truck and tell the officer the lumber is to build your own house. You very well may depart with a whole different outlook on trucking for your own use. If law enforcement can spin it, you will pay. It's very difficult, and expensive to prove them wrong.

Good luck with your endeavor.

I do hope you prevail.

Rob

[PanteraPilot]

Well no argument. The law is always interpreted by the guy with a gun and a ticket book

[PalContCo]

This is old information but maybe helpful. I have attached a photo taken in 1964 in New York of a 1956 B70. If you zoom in you will see the tractor weighs 12,580lbs with trailer showing a MGW of 40,000 lbs. Again old but maybe interesting.

Mike P.

[PanteraPilot]

Wow. Thanks, and I love the pic.

[PalContCo]

Here's the lowboy with some weight on it.

Mike P.