jdstl Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I'm looking for the treadle valve for my '59 B61. Its froze up. Can anyone recomend a supplier for just a replacement valve? I see Watts lists a whole pedal assembly but its $369 which seams kinda pricey, when I'm seeing valves around $100 to $150. My pedal and mounting is in ok shape so I don't really need all that.Thanks,Jason Quote -Jason-1959 Mack B61T single axle short wheel base, concave cab. 673 diesel, duplex trans. Running but under contruction! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Why don't you just purchase a replacement E3, (I think) foot valve? You could upgrade to a later model but I'm not sure of the number. Pull yours out and take it to a good truck parts store. It may be rebuildable, or use for a core.Rob Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdstl Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 Is a E3 the standard replacement now? I'm not worried about getting the exact original valve for it, I just want to get the brakes going. As I said i was hoping not to have to spend $369 just on that one piece! I'm going to need to replace air lines, some fittings, etc as well.Jason Quote -Jason-1959 Mack B61T single axle short wheel base, concave cab. 673 diesel, duplex trans. Running but under contruction! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Is a E3 the standard replacement now? I'm not worried about getting the exact original valve for it, I just want to get the brakes going. As I said i was hoping not to have to spend $369 just on that one piece! I'm going to need to replace air lines, some fittings, etc as well.JasonI'm pretty certain you can make an E6 valve work by blocking some unused ports. The E3 series is easy to come by from most vendors.Rob Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdstl Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 I found a Bendix reman one on anythingtruck.com for $64.00. Sounds good to me! Thanks for the help.Jason Quote -Jason-1959 Mack B61T single axle short wheel base, concave cab. 673 diesel, duplex trans. Running but under contruction! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOB DINGSDALE Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Jason:If you can take the pedal off and the rubber boot and spray wd-40 on plunger then let it sit for a couple of days.T he punger is made of aluminum and corrods against the steel bore.You might have too spray it acouple of times or more.If you can get peddle right out then take top part apart and try and get plunger out.Thats what usually happens to them due to water.Bob Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdstl Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 Thanks for the suggestion.. The valve is junk though I broke the bolts off in it trying to get it off. Its also VERY corroded. Looks like the E7 valve is supposed to be firewall mounted so that wont work. I looked at a E3 valve and it looks the same as mine but its smaller and the ports are in a different orientation. I can't find a cross to the number thats on my valve. Its 236969. Thats the only stamping/marking on the valve I can find. It also has a wide two bolt pattern to bolt the valve to the pedal, and the main air supply comes in from the bottom. I'm sure I could make another one work but I hate to have to cut and move all these copper lines. What a pain in the ass!Jason Quote -Jason-1959 Mack B61T single axle short wheel base, concave cab. 673 diesel, duplex trans. Running but under contruction! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Thanks for the suggestion.. The valve is junk though I broke the bolts off in it trying to get it off. Its also VERY corroded. Looks like the E7 valve is supposed to be firewall mounted so that wont work. I looked at a E3 valve and it looks the same as mine but its smaller and the ports are in a different orientation. I can't find a cross to the number thats on my valve. Its 236969. Thats the only stamping/marking on the valve I can find. It also has a wide two bolt pattern to bolt the valve to the pedal, and the main air supply comes in from the bottom. I'm sure I could make another one work but I hate to have to cut and move all these copper lines. What a pain in the ass!JasonThis is common. Cut the copper lines back about a foot, and convert to plastic or rubber hose from that point. A lot of the B models corroded terrible due to wheel spash through the years. The body being aluminum and exposed suffered deteriorated.Rob Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdstl Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 Also where can I find a air brake schematic for a simple system? I downloaded the bendix air brake handbook but it has all info on new much more complicated setups with ABS and whatnot. I would like to delete the trailer air brakes to remove some clutter as the truck isn't going to be pulling a actuall tractor trailer, at the most maybe a gooseneck type flatbed but it will be electric brakes.Thanks for any help.Jason Quote -Jason-1959 Mack B61T single axle short wheel base, concave cab. 673 diesel, duplex trans. Running but under contruction! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
leversole Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Here is a B-Model schematic that I modified to match mt truck... Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdstl Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) Cutting back and converting to the plastic lines sounds like it would make things MUCH easier. The hose and fittings looks to be very reasonable. Thanks for the schematic! looks like its a little more complicated than what I've got going on, I don't have the spring brake setup (thats the air parking brake right?) and I also don't have the tractor protection controll valve along with the spring brake controll. My dash has the tractor protection valve which I assume is to turn the air on for the trailer, and it has the slippery road valve to turn off the front brakes. Where is the regulator on the truck and how do I know if its working correctly?Is the Bendix E3 valve the one most people use are do you guys have another recomendation?Thanks,Jason Edited January 1, 2012 by jdstl Quote -Jason-1959 Mack B61T single axle short wheel base, concave cab. 673 diesel, duplex trans. Running but under contruction! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
leversole Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 "...and I also don't have the tractor protection controll valve along with the spring brake controll. My dash has the tractor protection valve which I assume is to turn the air on for the trailer,..."Thanks,JasonThe dash tractor protection valve is (origianlly) plumbed the tractor protection valve and controls it's operation... Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Cutting back and converting to the plastic lines sounds like it would make things MUCH easier. The hose and fittings looks to be very reasonable. Thanks for the schematic! looks like its a little more complicated than what I've got going on, I don't have the spring brake setup (thats the air parking brake right?) and I also don't have the tractor protection controll valve along with the spring brake controll. My dash has the tractor protection valve which I assume is to turn the air on for the trailer, and it has the slippery road valve to turn off the front brakes. Where is the regulator on the truck and how do I know if its working correctly?Is the Bendix E3 valve the one most people use are do you guys have another recomendation?Thanks,JasonThe "Slippery/Normal" valve does not shut off the front brakes. There is a limiting quick release valve on the front of the tractor that limits the applied air pressure to the front brakes when the in cab switch is placed in the "slippery" mode. You should have a tractor protection valve. This is mounted at the rear of the cab and the place where the air lines to supply a trailer attach to. The other end of the small air line that plumbs to this valve is connected to the in cab valve labled "Emergency/Normal". When this valve is selected to the Normal side, the tractor protection valve allows air to the trailer. When this valve is placed in the "Emergency" position, the tractror protection valve is blocked and will not pass any air through it.Rob Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 The E3 is a single circuit brake valve just like you will have to use on a B model. Ever thing after that is a duel brake circut valve meaning you have two brake systems from one air compressor. You dont want to change to that. Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdstl Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Oh ok well I do have the tractor protection valve... I guess I didn't understand the schematic correctly. My slippery road valve has been disconnected under the cab though, I can't tell where it was connected. I farted around with my old valve last night and upon taking it apart, found all the seals to be in great shape! I actually got it free and reinstalled it. I've got to fix a leak that comming from some type of diaphram valve assembly on the pass side fire wall. The system is only making about 45 psi when I fast idle the engine. Looks like the valve is plumbed into the shutter valve for the grill.Jason Quote -Jason-1959 Mack B61T single axle short wheel base, concave cab. 673 diesel, duplex trans. Running but under contruction! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Oh ok well I do have the tractor protection valve... I guess I didn't understand the schematic correctly. My slippery road valve has been disconnected under the cab though, I can't tell where it was connected. I farted around with my old valve last night and upon taking it apart, found all the seals to be in great shape! I actually got it free and reinstalled it. I've got to fix a leak that comming from some type of diaphram valve assembly on the pass side fire wall. The system is only making about 45 psi when I fast idle the engine. Looks like the valve is plumbed into the shutter valve for the grill.JasonProlly should have replaced that valve. I too have replaced the same without renewing anything in the past, but it is usually a short term love affair. I don't like doing things twice so I have learned to replace with a reman unit cause even in the retail world you only get paid once.Hopefully you will get lucky.Rob Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
leversole Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 "... I've got to fix a leak that comming from some type of diaphram valve assembly on the pass side fire wall. The system is only making about 45 psi when I fast idle the engine.JasonHmmm...the only thing on my passenger side firewall is the compressor governor! And if the system is cutting out at 45 psi?!?Does it look like this? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96508 Share on other sites More sharing options...
leversole Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Here is what a NEW one looks like! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdstl Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 Mine doesn't look like either one. I assumed it wasn't making more than 45 psi because it was leaking and bleeding off pressure. Is that a universal type setup or is it something i have to get that b-model specific?Thanks,Jason Quote -Jason-1959 Mack B61T single axle short wheel base, concave cab. 673 diesel, duplex trans. Running but under contruction! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Mine doesn't look like either one. I assumed it wasn't making more than 45 psi because it was leaking and bleeding off pressure. Is that a universal type setup or is it something i have to get that b-model specific?Thanks,JasonYou probably have the old "SealCo" type. The Bendix "D2" series governor is a direct replacement for the former.Rob Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdstl Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Here is what i'm talking about, looks like i have the regulator mounted at an angle behind this thing, you can see it in the background. As you can see in the pick a chunk of the diaphram has bown out. It runs over to the shutter valve but I don't see it in the air system schematic that I have to even know what it does.***update**I just went outside and rechecked, it has supply air comming from the junction block just below it thats mounted to the firewall. The braided hose runs over to the shudder valve t-stat assembly thats mounted to the top of the engine.Jason Edited January 3, 2012 by jdstl Quote -Jason-1959 Mack B61T single axle short wheel base, concave cab. 673 diesel, duplex trans. Running but under contruction! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Here is what i'm talking about, looks like i have the regulator mounted at an angle behind this thing, you can see it in the background. As you can see in the pick a chunk of the diaphram has bown out. It runs over to the shutter valve but I don't see it in the air system schematic that I have to even know what it does.***update**I just went outside and rechecked, it has supply air comming from the junction block just below it thats mounted to the firewall. The braided hose runs over to the shudder valve t-stat assembly thats mounted to the top of the engine.JasonThat is exactly what that does. It is the air pressure regulator for the shutter system. If you take it apart there is a piece of felt internal, this holds lubricating oil for the shutterstat that controls air pressure to operate the shutters. You can take it apart, cut a new diaphram for it and put it back together. Use air tool oil in it. The governor for the air compressor is located on the firewall also and can be seen in the photo.Rob Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdstl Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 Ok sounds good making a new diaphram shouldn't be too big a deal. Get that leak sealed up and see what kind of air pressure I can make. Is there a min air pressure @ RPM that the truck should make?Thanks,Jason Quote -Jason-1959 Mack B61T single axle short wheel base, concave cab. 673 diesel, duplex trans. Running but under contruction! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Ok sounds good making a new diaphram shouldn't be too big a deal. Get that leak sealed up and see what kind of air pressure I can make. Is there a min air pressure @ RPM that the truck should make?Thanks,JasonAdjust the governor for 120 psi cut out. The differential is not adjustable but it shoud cut in about 105 psi.Rob Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/22396-b61-treadle-valve/#findComment-96568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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