repower 1950 White 3000

[kdunkdfunk]

Hey All,

I'm looking for some advice on a good engine/trans combo for a '50 White 3000 cabover. It has the original Mustang 6-cyl which I have no intention of getting rid. It hasn't run for ~20yrs which probably isn't a big problem but about the best I can hope for is 8mpg and 65 on the freeway. I want to put this truck into daily use for short distances so am looking for a modern engine. I think I would prefer a diesel.

Thoughts?

Edited January 12, 2012 by kdunkdfunk

[Rob]

Hey All,

I'm looking for some advice on a good engine/trans combo for a '50 White 3000 cabover. It has the original Mustang 6-cyl which I have no intention of getting rid. It hasn't run for ~20yrs which probably isn't a big problem but about the best I can hope for is 8mpg and 65 on the freeway. I want to put this truck into daily use for short distances so am looking for a modern engine. I think I would prefer a diesel.

Thoughts?

5.9 Cummins, DT-360, or DT-466 International come to mind real quick.

You will want to change the rear axle ratio also to get any high roadspeed.

Rob

[Joe Ditchkus]

At the South Bend,Indiana ATHS Show there was a White 3000 repowered with either a 5.9 or 8.3 Cummins. The owner travels the country with it as the trailer was made into living quarters. Joe D.

[kdunkdfunk]

Yes, I've seen pictures of that truck. It is an 8.3. Mine will only have a flatdeck so maybe I don't need something that big?

What are the options for setting up controls in the cab? I want to keep it looking as original as possible until the day when I can put it all back.

I'm REALLY green. I haven't seen one of these trucks in person yet, let alone driven one. But I want it bad.

Edited January 12, 2012 by kdunkdfunk

[Joe Ditchkus]

8.3 engine is not physically a large engine it would fit in engine compartment of 3000 no problems or any of engines that Rob said.Engines and trans from Isuzu,Hino and Mitsubshi midrange are very reliable also As far as controls if you stay with a mechanical version no big problems on controls.Changing gauges is not a big deal.It would be best to buy a complete drivetrain from one unit so you do not have to find matching bellhousing for your existing trans. Joe D.

[Joe Ditchkus]

8.3 engine is not physically a large engine it would fit in engine compartment of 3000 no problems or any of engines that Rob said.Engines and trans from Isuzu,Hino and Mitsubshi midrange are very reliable also As far as controls if you stay with a mechanical version no big problems on controls.Changing gauges is not a big deal.It would be best to buy a complete drivetrain from one unit so you do not have to find matching bellhousing for your existing trans. Joe D.

[kdunkdfunk]

I see. One person recommended an Isuzu engine. Not sure what size they were talking about.

What does this mean for remaining electric systems that are 6 volt?

Right now I have nothing but questions. The biggest is if I would end up with something good enough for daily short distance driving. I know it will look cool!

[Rob]

I see. One person recommended an Isuzu engine. Not sure what size they were talking about.

What does this mean for remaining electric systems that are 6 volt?

Right now I have nothing but questions. The biggest is if I would end up with something good enough for daily short distance driving. I know it will look cool!

You would not be running the original generator and regulator with this transplant so it would be converted to 12volts, negative ground. This just involves changing the light bulbs, reversing the wires on the ammeter gauge, (if equipt) and interconnecting wiring. Everything is like a car, just larger.

As Joe mentioned the 8.3 Cummins will fit just fine. It is a good engine and will make more power than needed for this application. They are not as plentiful as the smaller 5.9 engine but cost about the same if in known good condition. Joe is very correct to purchase a mated assembly but I'd prolly go further and purchase a complete donor vehicle. There seems to be a never ending need for more parts when doing something like this. It is easier to remove from one chassis, then modify and fit to the receptor chassis.

Rob

[kdunkdfunk]

Thanks muchly for the guidance. A full chassis swap probably is the best way to go. The other thing I need is a shorter bed so was going the get the existing chassis shortened. This would be much more permanent than the engine changeover and devalue the truck. If I change chassis, I will be able to put back to original and will have an awesome lawn ornament for many years!

Very helpful. I will get some pics up when I can.

[vision386]

Given what the truck will be used for,i also recommend looking into a DT-466 International,these are great mid-range engines,they were in a LOT of IH schoolbus chassis,and used schoolbuses are plentiful (and can be bought on the "cheap") also a good source for other needed upgrades,ie: trans.rear,air brakes etc. without breaking the bank!....just a suggestion of course!.....................Mark

[kdunkdfunk]

Suggestions are what I am looking for.

A wrecked bus is exactly what the guy who is going to be doing all the mechanical suggested but I'm not a huge fan of what an old cab on a new frame looks like...especially with new wheels. Maybe I can put the original rims onto the new chassis?

[Rob]

Suggestions are what I am looking for.

A wrecked bus is exactly what the guy who is going to be doing all the mechanical suggested but I'm not a huge fan of what an old cab on a new frame looks like...especially with new wheels. Maybe I can put the original rims onto the new chassis?

I wasn't referring to setting the cab on a newer chassis although it is an option. It can be much more work to get everything to work out. I'd incorporate the new driveline into the old frame. I wouldn't however plan on returning to original in the future. If your plans are to have the truck original, restore it that way without upgrades. Tackling both projects is a good way to go broke fast. The truck will have much greater appeal to a broader audience if it is tastefully upgraded and can be drive reliably. Antique restored or modified trucks are not the same as their counterpart cars. The attitude and demeanor is completely different as you will discover if you start attending truck gatherings.

Rob

[Olivetroad]

Sounds like a fun project. Can you post a picture of the whole truck - you can never post too many photos!

Where is Rowdy? Did you notice the three leaves on the vine in the photo? It looks like his front porch!

I sold a wrecked FL80 Freightliner to a guy last year that took out the 8.3 Cummins and allison Auto and installed it in a late 50's White cabover. That 8.3 with a Allison auto is a pretty simple setup to stick in a old chassis. I bet the cheapest way to go is to like Mark said - buy a running school bus - that way you can drive it home and you will have all the parts right there in front of you. Scrap the rest and it usually will pay for a big percentage of your purchase price - good luck!

[james j neiweem]

Unfortunately nothing will sound as good as that white gaser if it had a split manfold. Don't get rid of that engine as the White nuts will grab it up. That school bus idea sounds good. Cheap purchase and plenty of parts around. Good luck.

[kdunkdfunk]

I am going to have to see what my particular unique circumstances will allow. While putting the 3000 cab on a bus frame seems to be the cheapest way to go and will probably give the best function, I am worried about a couple things.

How much of the old character of the truck will be left when the engine, transmission, frame, wheels, drivetrain are gone? What I would have is an old cab on a new truck and pictures I have seen, it doesn't look great. Robbing parts off a bus to bring the truck to modern operating standards sounds good though. I don't want to say too much until I have it in my hands but the seller wanted to get the thing roadworthy for $5000 using the old engine (rebuilt with genuine parts) and keeping the truck completely original to preserve the value. Sounds like a good builder to me.

I would like to stick with that but I think it would be more valuable to everyone if I am driving it every day and it works. Since the only alternative is to leave it parked in the weeds. When I get a chance I will get some pics of a Mack in Vancouver area that is a daily hauler. Gotta respect him. It's been on the road for years. I saw him at the Cat dealer yard regularly picking up new machines and delivering them. Talk about an enhanced customer experience to have your new machine arrive behind that truck! You could say that my background is hot-rodding new Cat's. We were doing heavy modifications to D8's for oil sands and a lot of conversions for logging. I tried my hand at restoring a car with mixed results.

Being practical, I think the best result will be using the original chassis with a newish engine and shortening the existing frame so that I end up with a 12-14' deck. In '53 White released the drop chassis and I would have loved to find one of these that is the right length but I need to get on with this. (Anyone know what happened to this truck? http://www.classicwhitetrucks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=696 I have tried to get registered on the forum to get the guys number but no luck.) This is the best cab I have seen for condition and completeness (looks like some work on the floor before paint but surface rust only, can you believe the seats just need a clean? no rips). The truck has 367k miles so I will need to look into that.

This from Rob:

I'd incorporate the new driveline into the old frame. I wouldn't however plan on returning to original in the future. If your plans are to have the truck original, restore it that way without upgrades. Tackling both projects is a good way to go broke fast.

Despite that I am going to keep the engine and parts that get removed with the plan of getting it going and putting it back someday. Since the engine will be out and there is no time constraint, I can work on it as funds allow. I will check if it is the split manifold.

So I just need to see this guy as soon as work will allow and see what can and can't be done on my budget. Will let y'all know what happens. Many thanks!

[Rob]

Another viable option is to find another truck because they are out there to rebuild/restore original. The 3000 series, and it's larger cousins were very popular and used the same driveline. You may wind up restoring/rebuilding the original drivetrain, then finding another chassis to use the parts in. Don't rule anything out. If time, space, and money is on your side, then use the ball that's in your court. This is a fun hobby, but is also something that gets very expensive, quickly. As you get further into some of this it will become readily apparent a "staggered" approach needs to be pursued.

Just don't get into it like a high school boy chasing girls, looking for breeding stock. You can never get ahead that way.

Rob

[vision386]

Sounds like a fun project. Can you post a picture of the whole truck - you can never post too many photos!

Where is Rowdy? Did you notice the three leaves on the vine in the photo? It looks like his front porch!

I sold a wrecked FL80 Freightliner to a guy last year that took out the 8.3 Cummins and allison Auto and installed it in a late 50's White cabover. That 8.3 with a Allison auto is a pretty simple setup to stick in a old chassis. I bet the cheapest way to go is to like Mark said - buy a running school bus - that way you can drive it home and you will have all the parts right there in front of you. Scrap the rest and it usually will pay for a big percentage of your purchase price - good luck!

Exactly! it was my intent that you should adapt the modern drivetrain to the existing chassis,therefore keeping the looks and integrity of the truck mostly intact............not simply adding the older cab to the "new" frame,not a big fan of that myself.......................Mark

[kdunkdfunk]

Ok so I don't read so good. You were ALL suggesting a donor vehicle. Here's something for the picture nuts to look at! All I have at this point.

The first four shots are from when they parked it. I will be really choked if that compost heap of needles has made a rusty mess while stored.

Edited January 14, 2012 by kdunkdfunk

[Olivetroad]

Those old gauges sure had a nice design compared to today.

That thing is pretty straight - I would investigate getting it in running condition where you could at least play with it before you make a decision to repower it. You might be surprised how good it gets along the way it is - Thanks for the photos!

[Rob]

Not a bad start to work with. I like the length of it myself but it would take quite a long bed for certain. A nice rollback would be great for hauling cars.

Rob

[bullhusk]

Nice bubble cab! Does the steering column tilt with the cab? Cause I think some of the early ones did not!, you had to take the seat cushion out of the bottom driver seat, if that is the case, I would put a safety chain around the back of the cab!! Ouch!.... It looks like a REO Gold Comet Motor that they also used in the White's, they were good motors, (they called them zero engines, the bore & stroke were the same) and I think there are still parts around for those motors, if you wanted to fix it.. Nice old White !! Good Luck with her!!

BULLHUSK

[kdunkdfunk]

Back again. Yesterday I finally got a chance to see what I bought. Turns out it is a 1958 White 3022, the frame is the length I need, and we decided to restore it to stock everything. The engine doesn't have a split manifold. The transmission is 5 speed with a 3 speed rear. I was really impressed with the condition of everything. A couple of dings in the cab and some minor rust. The floor needs to be replaced. A very clean truck so far!

I am interested in building the history for this truck and documenting the build in a public place. Any suggestions on that are welcome.

Here are some pics:

[220cummins]

The old timers around here called this a pregnant rollerskate Good look with the resto and keep us up to date with how it's coming.

[Joe Ditchkus]

Interior shot looks like it has 2 stick trans to me. I do not see any air or electric for 3 speed rear. It would be different if it did have 3 speed auxiliary trans. There was a White 3000 tandem for sale in truck corral at Macungie about 5 years ago with 2 stick trans,it was a tack truck for asphalt company. Good luck . Joe D.

[other dog]

Interior shot looks like it has 2 stick trans to me. I do not see any air or electric for 3 speed rear. It would be different if it did have 3 speed auxiliary trans. There was a White 3000 tandem for sale in truck corral at Macungie about 5 years ago with 2 stick trans,it was a tack truck for asphalt company. Good luck . Joe D.

Nice find! I see an auxilliary trans. no. on the plate there, i'm guessing that's what it is, a 5 main, 3spd. aux.