storkmack Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I would put the work into finding the problem and fixing it right. We have multiple Mack CH's with over a million miles on them and have had very little issues with the electronics on them. We had a fella that wanted us to convert his Vmac I to a mechanical so that he wouldn't have to buy a new ECM. We did all the math on man hours and $$ to convert it, and it was cheaper and less work to just fix what his problem was. -Brad Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-132633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I tried jumping the plug on the radiator sensor. Thought that was it untill the end of the hill it derated and got code 7-2 do you know what this one is. I never got that code untill tonight. But as far as code 3-4 and 3-5 what are my options to solving the prothem there? Thanks I should have been more specific with you. You dont have the understanding enough and that is not derating you to trouble shoot it with out some equipment and a reader and a few years of working electronics and with your problem ant no one here in DX lane can check it for you.So take it in to the volve or mack dealer and bite the bullet. glenn Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-132653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Well kinda bummed here but I really appreciate the help from you guys. I think I'm just gonna try and find a donor truck and do the conversion. Could it be the ECM or Ecu? Or would it throw a code for that? Frustrating on a 40 mile round trip it derated 6 times. Would you please keep us posted and tell us how your doing on the change over. Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-132655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
24vman Posted August 8, 2012 Author Share Posted August 8, 2012 I would put the work into finding the problem and fixing it right. We have multiple Mack CH's with over a million miles on them and have had very little issues with the electronics on them. We had a fella that wanted us to convert his Vmac I to a mechanical so that he wouldn't have to buy a new ECM. We did all the math on man hours and $$ to convert it, and it was cheaper and less work to just fix what his problem was. -Brad which engine is the vmac 1 with the uni pumps? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-132687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb502 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 VMAC 1 is the software that runs the electronic bosch pump on your E7 that was the first to have an ecm/ecu. The etec/aset engines are the ones with Unit Pumps. Quote "Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH" "You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-132832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
24vman Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 well i got a bosch 7100 pump from an em7 but with 300hp, am going to send it to get rebuilt. the 454 has 12mm plungers and so does the the mech pump,when thepump goes on what is the correct timeing then? is there any specs i can give the pump shop to they can match the fuel and get correct horse power out of the truck? has this been done before or has anyone heard of it being done before?thanks Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-133314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullfuel01 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 injectors are differents with mecanic pump. I was told you need to change them otherwise it won't work properly. keep us posted, I've been thinking about doing it more then once! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-133330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
24vman Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 injectors are differents with mecanic pump. I was told you need to change them otherwise it won't work properly. keep us posted, I've been thinking about doing it more then once! I've been pondering that with the injectors but they are both mech pumps, where one only has an electroning gov and the other doesnt. It would nice if someone on here has done this before to get an idea how to go about this. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-133340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
staxx Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Code 34 is for timing event marker the one that srews into side of injection pump and 35 is the timing actuator or econovance the solinoid on top both are 2 wire sensors check the plugs first and then the main connection at firewall for corrosion have seen this alot ...good luck Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-133343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb502 Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Code 34 is for timing event marker the one that srews into side of injection pump and 35 is the timing actuator or econovance the solinoid on top both are 2 wire sensors check the plugs first and then the main connection at firewall for corrosion have seen this alot ...good luckHE SPEAKS! I would try whatever staxx says if anybody I know has had to trouble shoot that issues its him, how many years at Mack now staxx? Quote "Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH" "You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-133395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
staxx Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Way tooooo many years ,dont know it all but have seen alot. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-133402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWB555 Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I feel your pain on this-I have a 95 e7 400 that I was getting the same codes & engine derate. I was able to make the 3-4 go away by changing the sensor in the side of the pump, the 3-5 ended up being the ECM. If I had it to do all over again I would just bite the bullet and take it to Mack. I blew $500 on a new econovance solonoid trying to fix it myself, then the shop I took it to charged me their labor rate to throw parts at it themselves, they changed the timing sensor in the flywheel housing, rebuilt the actual econovance unit, and ultimately the ECM was the problem. Runs great now, but it was a complete nightmare! I wish you luck whatever you decide to do. ---Also I made the same mistake of thinking the 3-5 code was Jake Brake Solonoid instead of Timing Acutator, guess you cant believe everything you read on the internet. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-133409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKTRUCKS4 Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I did the change over on my 94 RD. Changed the pump, got rid of the econovance, changed the fuel lines because the pump is in a different location now. Told the pump shop what I was doing. I wanted big power so they turned up the pump, put super flow injectors in it and replaced the turbo with a rebuilt 427 one. They told my they where getting 490HP from this set-up. I did a cab change on my truck because of a fire and replaced it with a cab that was mechanical. I changed the wire harness under the hood along with all the sensors for the motor, which are not many but including the tach sensor in the bellhousing. The timing get set by the book for a mechanical motors. Quote Live every day like it's your last, because one of these days, it will be. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-133414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
24vman Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 I did the change over on my 94 RD. Changed the pump, got rid of the econovance, changed the fuel lines because the pump is in a different location now. Told the pump shop what I was doing. I wanted big power so they turned up the pump, put super flow injectors in it and replaced the turbo with a rebuilt 427 one. They told my they where getting 490HP from this set-up. I did a cab change on my truck because of a fire and replaced it with a cab that was mechanical. I changed the wire harness under the hood along with all the sensors for the motor, which are not many but including the tach sensor in the bellhousing. The timing get set by the book for a mechanical motors. do you kow what size pump you installed, what mm plungers? did the pump shop have to change parts to get the feul needed to make that hp? how did you go about finding injectors for a mack? i can beleive someone has actually done it, i thought i was gonna be the only one lol.Code 34 is for timing event marker the one that srews into side of injection pump and 35 is the timing actuator or econovance the solinoid on top both are 2 wire sensors check the plugs first and then the main connection at firewall for corrosion have seen this alot ...good luck stax i'll check out the connections make sure they are clean and try it again. i appreciate the info everyone. thanks Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-133421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzack Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Code 35 on my 94 ch600 was the econovance solenoid. Took it to Mack that night and was back to work the very next day. Yeah it cost $1,000 but it saves me ALOT of headaches by just bringing it to the dealer and having a guy work on it who knows these trucks inside and out. Mine has 970,000mi and 32,000hrs and is still a very reliable truck. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-133640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Some times you just have to take it to the dealer. When the dealer throw parts at it the coustomer gets mad but i have seen customers throw parts at the truck for hundreds of dollars and then give up and take it in and get a repair. Some things is too hard to troubleshoot with out the knowage and equipment. glenn Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-133641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
staxx Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 FYI the timing event sensor the one on the side of injection pump does not get adjusted you srew it in till in stops then tighten jam nut if you have a multimeter from one pin to the other should be 100-500 ohms also check from pin a to ground in sensor is grounding replace, Have you had any water leaking into cab above module somtimes the windshield gasket let water in and dip onto module. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-133644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Also check the plug behind the washer bottle on the rh fire wall 3/16 socket takes it part see if ya got any green conections there! Seen that do some werid stuff before! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-133657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
24vman Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Also check the plug behind the washer bottle on the rh fire wall 3/16 socket takes it part see if ya got any green conections there! Seen that do some werid stuff before! ill check this out today. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-133680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
24vman Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Some times you just have to take it to the dealer. When the dealer throw parts at it the coustomer gets mad but i have seen customers throw parts at the truck for hundreds of dollars and then give up and take it in and get a repair. Some things is too hard to troubleshoot with out the knowage and equipment. glenn , we;ve thrown parts at it according to the codes. since i switched out the fic and ecm i'm only down to one code which is 3-5, which i can only think the injection pump is worn inside, thats could be screwing up the timing, as the truck has 475k on it and i don't think the pump has ever been off. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-133681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
24vman Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) FYI the timing event sensor the one on the side of injection pump does not get adjusted you srew it in till in stops then tighten jam nut if you have a multimeter from one pin to the other should be 100-500 ohms also check from pin a to ground in sensor is grounding replace, Have you had any water leaking into cab above module somtimes the windshield gasket let water in and dip onto module.is that sensor supposed to be bottomed out or will the threads make it stop where its supposed to be? cab is as dry as a bone.. havent had much rain ether. Edited August 16, 2012 by 24vman Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-133682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
staxx Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Back the adjusting ring out put a dab of silicone on the threads and run sensor in till it bottoms out then tigten jam nut. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-133689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzack Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 , we;ve thrown parts at it according to the codes. since i switched out the fic and ecm i'm only down to one code which is 3-5, which i can only think the injection pump is worn inside, thats could be screwing up the timing, as the truck has 475k on it and i don't think the pump has ever been off.I highly doubt you need a new pump. You said yourself the truck runs fine until it goes into de-rate mode. I would almost bet it needs a new Econovance solenoid. We have had two mid-nineties CH's this past year have the EXACT same symptoms as your truck, same code 35 (timing actuator), and both were fixed by replacing the Econovance. It is that box at the front/top of the pump with the round solenoid and two wires sticking out the side of it. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-133890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
staxx Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Yup have seen plenty on econovance solenoids go bad over the years is yours leaking oil out of the end where the wires go in ? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26611-converting-electronic-to-manual-pump/page/2/#findComment-133903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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