One bad dog Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Has anybody had trouble with water going on top the piston and in the intake without even starting the truck I took heads off took them to machine shop they all checked out good got them home put them on and the trouble started water on top pistons and in intake everything was fine before I took them off I torgued all the heads the way it's suppose to b done put all new o rings on injectors set valves put water went to crank it water on top pistons and in intake torgued heads to 50lbs then 125 then to 220 in order all fire rings was right this is the first time this ever happened to me I'm starting to think the torgue wrench may b off has anyone run in to this problem before another thing I saw was one the ends of my news gaskets they have some little cut outs by the bolt holes my others didn't do u think an em6 head gasket and a e6 they should b the same r r they different thanks for any help Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lmackattack Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Was the water in all holes or just one? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
One bad dog Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 All Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
One bad dog Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 The cylinders was full like I would have just poured the water right in the cylinder never seen this before Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lmackattack Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 if all were full that has to be a head gasket issue or the deck hight had to much liner protrusion. I have helped rebuild old mack diesles but never did the liner removal install. Im thinking that the liners were not set right and water was able to sneak past the gasket or top of liner??? but this is a question that someone with first hand experince can help more with. was there water in the oil pan as well? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
One bad dog Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 No water in pan I never crank the motor all gaskets and fire ring all look like they got squeezed real good I took heads back to shop to have them pressured tested again looks to me when I put the water in radiator it went right on the pistons this on has really got me thanks alot for the info guess I,ll see what this shop saids about heads I know heads was good when I took them off it's crazy thanks again Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lmackattack Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 im just trying to think if water can get into the intake easy. but you said that all holes were filled and you did not crank so that means at least a few cyl would have had the valves shut and would not let water in those holes??? so again that would bring it back to the head gasket. I guess if the heads check out OK you can re install them and do a pressure check on each cyl and see if air is escaping past the gasket or liner? it sounds like the leak will be noticable if its filling all 6 holes.... FYI... keep them holes oiled down well now that water got down on the pistons. I would dump a 1/4 qt of oil in each hole and let it soak back into the rings/pan or just put some WD40 in them . keep us posted ! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
One bad dog Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 I never took out r messed with liners just heads and gasket Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Mack Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 just some generic checks, not Mack specific...wrong head gasket?head gasket upside down?water jacket seal rings missing or wrongly moulded?have you matched the gasket to the head and to the block prior to installation?sounds like you have an open flow path rather than a crackmy two cents...plus taxBC Mack Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
39 Baby Mack Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Which head gaskets have the notches cut in them the old ones or the new ones?Ron Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
One bad dog Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Everything matched had gasket all right with top on top old gaskets didn't have little notch by first and last head bolt on each head but I looked at Mack gaskets they had same little notch as the pai ones I put now I didn't c no water jacket seal rings that is what it is open flow somewhere cuz I never cranked engine just put water in radiator and it went straight to the pistons cuz it didn't go through the block cuz water was clear no antifreeze and block had antifreeze in it thanks any info will help this is first time this happened to me heads was all fine before this just had alittle bitty sweep taught it might b freeze plug between head so pulled heads and now this problem thanks Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
One bad dog Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 I think the water got into the intake when I rolled the motor over alittle with the wrench I think it was two pistons that was up didn't have no water but the ones that was down had water so I pulled the injectors so I could roll the motor over I have soaked all the cylinders w d 40 thanks Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
staxx Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 There should be some rubber seals around the water jackets on the head gaskets are they missing and did you make sure all the head bolt holes were clean before installation if they had oil or water in there you might have cracked the block possiably have incorrect fire rings some are flat others are steped. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
One bad dog Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 There was no rubber seals on old r new gaskets all bolt holes was clean I checked that thanks Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
staxx Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I always use the mack gaskets but you still might have incorect fire rings Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
staxx Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 If you had crack in heads you should have been able to see the cracks , let me think on this one a little more. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lmackattack Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Staxx ... Am I correct in saying the head gasket seals to the bottom of the head and top of fire rings?. And does the e6 have a spec for the liner height? If the liners were to low or bad fire rings the water can flow right in..I know he did not mess with liners but they may be out of spec? ..it's been about 6 years sence I had a head off...and don't have my book here... Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lmackattack Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Also how about a pic of the gasket and the top of the block bottom of head...it may help if we can see the parts... Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
staxx Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Fire rings seal between top of liner and bottom of head,the gasket seal all other passage holes on block to head oil and coolant, liners could be low causing coolant to seep by but i wonder if he build the heads on a table and had intake and exhaust bolted up tight then set heads on and torqed not letting heads set on block correctly if injector cups were leaking in would leak back out the fuel line externaly. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
staxx Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Long as the fire ring was sealing good ther is no other way for water to get in cylinder unless heads cracked somewhere or liner cracked , if tip washes on injector missing and cup was messed up it could get in there. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 The last time i saw a problem like your having it was due to the fact that the old fire rings was left on top of the liners and he set new gaskets on top of old fire rings. On E 6 i never saw but only one design of fire rings. A E 7 will have a early and late fire ring. Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
One bad dog Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 Thanks to all my buddies that tried to help me the first machine that I took the heads to was closing my heads was the last ones they did . I had no problems before they went there put heads on and the problem was there took heads yesterday to another machine shop he called me this morning he found the problem the first machine shop drilled straight threw the head when they was taking out the freeze plugs on back of the head on number 6 cyl straight threw about a 1/4 in hole perfect hole he said he repaired the head and pressure tested it I torgued them on this evening with some new Mack gaskets I will let yaull know how she runs tommorrow evening once again thanks to everybody for the advice thank u Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
39 Baby Mack Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 This is a longshot, but the reason I asked about the notches in the gasket was that at one time there was a special head gasket made tosalvage old blocks that could not be resurfaced unless cutting beyond minimum dimension from top deck to the top of the crankshaft bore.In this case the liners protruded further from the deck and the gasket used stock fire rings but a thicker composition gasket to make up for the differencein the block machining .There was an old service bulletin on this and it mentioned the fact that there were identifying notches cut to the outside of the head gasket so you could readilyidentify these motors.If for some reason you could have mistakingly got a hold of a pair of these special head gaskets and used them on an engine that did not require them the firerings would not "coin" properly.Even if this was the case, in my mind, it still wouldn't explain the water seeping past the composition gasket.Ron Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
staxx Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Yup I remember using those gaskets once or twice they did the job of getting a little more life out of a worn engine, glad you found the problem one bad dog . Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/26905-head-gaskets-on-em6/#findComment-134632 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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