re-building cat engine

[bulldogrider]

I'm buying a truck has a c-15 cat engine 475hp with 1 million kms, i'm planning to put a gravel box on it, my question is how long this truck will run before i have to re-build it? or since the construction season is almost over should i re-build it in the winter and get it ready for another million kms? i live on the other side of montana border in canada and the mechanics here a so greedy and i was told on the USA side it is way cheaper to re-build the engine. tell me what you guys think and what do you suggest?

thank

[slpwlker]

It's a Cat your screwed. My 3406E was 24k last inframe. At that stage take it to a performance shop and get it hopped up for almost the same price. Check out PDI in Salt Lake City,Ut.

[rsb502]

I dont see a reason to rebuild until there is excessive blow by, or engine noise, of course a c-15 sounds like its falling apart off the showroom floor. I dont think I would ever buy one I know everybody I know that has em has had issues with them, the early c-15's at Howard Baer all had broken head bolts and bad actuators, a couple of them were down so much they got rid of em. I hope you didnt get an Acert c-15 they are worse about actuator issues, turbo issues, and get horrible fuel mileage for the power they make, I think Cat quit making engines after the 3406B and just cobbled the rest together from parts they had laying around. if you want a new Cat C-15 go get a new International with a Maxxforce 15 thats just a gray and blue Cat C-15.

[oilburner]

I'm buying a truck has a c-15 cat engine 475hp with 1 million kms, i'm planning to put a gravel box on it, my question is how long this truck will run before i have to re-build it? or since the construction season is almost over should i re-build it in the winter and get it ready for another million kms? i live on the other side of montana border in canada and the mechanics here a so greedy and i was told on the USA side it is way cheaper to re-build the engine. tell me what you guys think and what do you suggest?

thank

it is about 12k here if the head is good and you don't need injectors or anything like that, now that engine is what we call a million mile engine around here, i know a guy that has a 550 with 1.2 and he rolled in a set of bearings, but if the truck runs good and don't heat up and has normal blowby run her, if it ain't broke don't fix it i guess would be rule to go by. And if you do go threw it go back with cat parts not aftermarket you will save money in the long run.

[oilburner]

I dont see a reason to rebuild until there is excessive blow by, or engine noise, of course a c-15 sounds like its falling apart off the showroom floor. I dont think I would ever buy one I know everybody I know that has em has had issues with them, the early c-15's at Howard Baer all had broken head bolts and bad actuators, a couple of them were down so much they got rid of em. I hope you didnt get an Acert c-15 they are worse about actuator issues, turbo issues, and get horrible fuel mileage for the power they make, I think Cat quit making engines after the 3406B and just cobbled the rest together from parts they had laying around. if you want a new Cat C-15 go get a new International with a Maxxforce 15 thats just a gray and blue Cat C-15.

i do like the old b models and i like the older a model and the 1693, but the 3406E is probely the best cat made, a 475 or 550 E model is very depedable, the c-15 did have head trouble and the twin turbos gave even more trouble, that was for that bad word emissions sake and why cat stoped building the big engine.

[slpwlker]

I dont see a reason to rebuild until there is excessive blow by, or engine noise, of course a c-15 sounds like its falling apart off the showroom floor. I dont think I would ever buy one I know everybody I know that has em has had issues with them, the early c-15's at Howard Baer all had broken head bolts and bad actuators, a couple of them were down so much they got rid of em. I hope you didnt get an Acert c-15 they are worse about actuator issues, turbo issues, and get horrible fuel mileage for the power they make, I think Cat quit making engines after the 3406B and just cobbled the rest together from parts they had laying around. if you want a new Cat C-15 go get a new International with a Maxxforce 15 thats just a gray and blue Cat C-15.

I'll have to disagree on that. My 3406E has had minor problems just likes turbo gaskets. Eats 2 a year. 1 injector before the inframe. Pulls like no tomorrow. Drove a 3406C and it had more torque then anything I had driven at that time. got great mileage to. Mine now i do alright on fuel but I work at it.

[Apple dog]

It's a Cat your screwed. My 3406E was 24k last inframe. At that stage take it to a performance shop and get it hopped up for almost the same price. Check out PDI in Salt Lake City,Ut.

What did they do for 24k put a new crate motor in and give you enough parts to rebuild it. That is why I do all my motor work. I dont like anyone else in my motor. Oiloburner an E model is just a B model with an over head cam and steal pistons. The E still has the B model cam jernals in it. The Acert cat motors are junk stay away from them.

[slpwlker]

I got screwed. Bottom line. but the guy let us pay it vs a lump sum that I didn't have at the time. One of those damned I do damned I don't. Just an inframe

[theakerstwo]

it is about 12k here if the head is good and you don't need injectors or anything like that, now that engine is what we call a million mile engine around here, i know a guy that has a 550 with 1.2 and he rolled in a set of bearings, but if the truck runs good and don't heat up and has normal blowby run her, if it ain't broke don't fix it i guess would be rule to go by. And if you do go threw it go back with cat parts not aftermarket you will save money in the long run.

Thats what i say. I would wait till it needs a rebuild.The cores if they are bad is were the cost comes in. glenn

[oilburner]

What did they do for 24k put a new crate motor in and give you enough parts to rebuild it. That is why I do all my motor work. I dont like anyone else in my motor. Oiloburner an E model is just a B model with an over head cam and steal pistons. The E still has the B model cam jernals in it. The Acert cat motors are junk stay away from them.

Yes the b mpdel and e model share the block but the head and fuel system is the big change on the two, the crank journals are diffrent also as so of the c models as well, i like them both but if i had a otr truck the e model would be my frist pick, now if i were local hauling coal logs or somthing like that give me a old B model,

[oilburner]

Yes the b mpdel and e model share the block but the head and fuel system is the big change on the two, the crank journals are diffrent also as so of the c models as well, i like them both but if i had a otr truck the e model would be my frist pick, now if i were local hauling coal logs or somthing like that give me a old B model,

Its a little harder to screw with the E models, so they are more dependable than the b especially if you have a driver in it, the pistons can handle the heat better and you can't mess with the pump on the E models, i have know guys to back the screws out of the pumps of the b models trying to get more power till they fall out.

[rsb502]

To all the comments on E models, I think the E model is a great engine, but I dont think it was the best ever, I still think that was the B model. I may rate these things differently than most though, since I am a mechanic /driver, I rate them by reliability and the E model had more issues than the B hands down, the B's just ran forever if you took care of em, the E models have what people here call the E model shake when they get some bad fuel or water thru the fuel system it gets a miss thats hard to find using injector cut out tests. I know I have been around about 20 or so that had it I know of 6 right now, I know that you can throw new injectors, new fuel system check valves in it and it will fix it but it just seems like it should be easier to diagnose and fix to me. The first C-15 was actually just a 3406E with a new name it wasnt a 15.2 liter like the ACERT engines they came a year or two later, the first C-15 wasnt bad, the ACERT sequential turbo engines had some pretty serious issues with heads and turbos for the first 3 years and they have gotten the reliability better now but its still tainted to me. As far as stopped making it, well they didnt they just stopped painting it yellow its blue and gray now and its called the Maxxforce 15 the Cat C-13 is the Maxxforce 13, Cat and International made an agreement that Cat would supply engines to International if they would build them a truck thats why the doors on the CAT truck look like International doors, they are.

[David]

You could buy a Cummins core and rebuild it (for half the cost), so it's ready to go when the Kitty's ninth life expires.

[rsb502]

Oh yeah the 1693, its A BAD MOMMA SHUT YO MOUTH! I ran dump trucks for years with a friend that has a 1973 KW ext hood A model W900 with a 1693 that thing is a bad ass, the only thting that has ever run with it was my old daycab Superdog with an E9 440hp. I dont want to sound biased with my engine oppinions its not like I hate all Cats and love all Macks to me(i know ill get crap for this) the E9 is the best pulling stock engine in a truck but its not the best engine they have reliability issues too, I would say the most relaible engine I have ever been around would have to be an N-14 Cummins red head, the N-14 460s and 500's just ran forever, all you have to do is change the oil and about every two or three years replace the EPS sensor and they just go. Actually the second strongest truck I have ever driven was a cranked up N-14 525, that sucker was a bad boy it had to making over 550 to the wheels. Well theres my two cents plus a little extra, guess Ill sit back and wait for the flak.

[JumperAndSon]

Wait, wait, wait. I got an idea. How bout yanking that kitten outta there and dropping a perfectly good ole Detroit Diesel in where it came out from.

Ben

[rsb502]

Wait, wait, wait. I got an idea. How bout yanking that kitten outta there and dropping a perfectly good ole Detroit Diesel in where it came out from.

Ben

Hey, what are ou trying to do make the truck truly worthless? At least with a Cat somebody will buy it for parts!

[Lmackattack]

I drive a 1996 IH WITH A 3406E it has 400k on the clock and it has needed the following. Cam, 3 injectors, exhaust stud upgrade, exhaust gaskets,turbo gasket,jake solenoids,fuel return hose. Over all the engine gets 5.50 - 5.65 mp Driving it like I'm late all the time.

It goes like hell and never left me stranded yet. I would rather have a old mechanical but love the big hp and 18 speed.

It's the best pulling hiway truck I have driven.

[dover]

When I went to college we tore down and rebuilt a 3406B. When we were all done we hooked it up to a dyno. I don't remember any of the numbers, but man was that a great experiance. That engine had been gone through twice a year for probably 10 years. My dads highschool freind has a couple of Pete's with 550 e models and 18 speeds, those things will flat pull!

And this is for you Ben, we also set the rack travel on a 12v71 and then fired it up and loaded it up in college. The classes in the rest of the building would complain every time we ran it. They are definetly a great sounding engine. We had to have the janitor there with a mop to keep the the oil from pooling under it.

Ben

[bullhusk]

It's a Cat your screwed. My 3406E was 24k last inframe. At that stage take it to a performance shop and get it hopped up for almost the same price. Check out PDI in Salt Lake City,Ut.

WOW!! I just bought a Detroit 14 L- 575 hp Reman (non EGR) long block (turbo, bell, fly) with my core for $21,000, I also have 4 Cat A-Cert's, I don't even want to talk about! Now the one 3406-C mech. I have, run's every day like a fine Swiss watch!

BULLHUSK

[oilburner]

To all the comments on E models, I think the E model is a great engine, but I dont think it was the best ever, I still think that was the B model. I may rate these things differently than most though, since I am a mechanic /driver, I rate them by reliability and the E model had more issues than the B hands down, the B's just ran forever if you took care of em, the E models have what people here call the E model shake when they get some bad fuel or water thru the fuel system it gets a miss thats hard to find using injector cut out tests. I know I have been around about 20 or so that had it I know of 6 right now, I know that you can throw new injectors, new fuel system check valves in it and it will fix it but it just seems like it should be easier to diagnose and fix to me. The first C-15 was actually just a 3406E with a new name it wasnt a 15.2 liter like the ACERT engines they came a year or two later, the first C-15 wasnt bad, the ACERT sequential turbo engines had some pretty serious issues with heads and turbos for the first 3 years and they have gotten the reliability better now but its still tainted to me. As far as stopped making it, well they didnt they just stopped painting it yellow its blue and gray now and its called the Maxxforce 15 the Cat C-13 is the Maxxforce 13, Cat and International made an agreement that Cat would supply engines to International if they would build them a truck thats why the doors on the CAT truck look like International doors, they are.

84 superdog, i thank along the same lines i would rather have the b model as the e for one major reason, no check engine light to come own, but i have never seen any major problems with one, we had a 3406E 435 hp that had 1.2 million miles on it that was purchased from a lumber mill that got it new, and said it had never been into, but it was a 1800 rpm motor and it had been well taken care of never missed a oil change, we used it 2 years and all we did was replkace the ecm, and had to rebuild the jake. Now i drove a c-15 that was a 550 and that truck would tear the road up but it was pleged with problems, broke rocker arms, bad oilcooler, injectors, and a cracked head thing never ran hot but somehow the head was cracked. The e model was a 95 and the c15 was a 2000 both were in freigthliner fld's. My dad had a cabover pete with a 1693 425 in it when i was about 5 and i can rember that thing starting in the morning what a racket it made when it was cold, but everone around braged on it how fast it would pull jellico mt. loaded. Now the e9 mack have got to pull good they are a big engine, and a v motor on top of that it has to make awsome touqe, Like the 3408 cats but i have yet to take one for a spin but maybe someday i will get a chance but i will proberly have to buy one frist.

[rsb502]

Oil Burner if you get down into mid TN and want to go for a ride in an E9 truck hit me up Im all for showing the ways of E9 power, and the one I have now is stock(for now). I have pulled Jellico with several trucks and its a good test for sure, Black Mt in NC is a good pull and short as it is Mt Eagle on 24 in TN is another one that will make the real trucks stand out in a field of amateurs, its a short pull but its 7.5% and curvy to add to it. I dont think those out west truckers have any idea what a real hill is they have long pulls but they are straight as an arrow compared to east coast hills and not as steep, at least all of em I have been on(several). I hear ya on the 1693 clatter, they sound like theyre coming apart till they warm up dont they, the 3408 is a good engine when its right but they have issues like all the big engines do and they are getting even more rare than the E9 so there is little to go by for comparison, I kow where there are 3 and 2 KT600 Cummins engines, which from what I have been told by the old timers are the baddest thing on wheels till a head gasket goes and they always go, any engine with 6 individual heads and I think 6 bolts per head not run at constant speed in equipment as it was designed will have issues. I would love to have a KT truck and a 3408 in the driveway with the E9 all I would need then is an 8V92TA and I would have em all.

[oilburner]

Oil Burner if you get down into mid TN and want to go for a ride in an E9 truck hit me up Im all for showing the ways of E9 power, and the one I have now is stock(for now). I have pulled Jellico with several trucks and its a good test for sure, Black Mt in NC is a good pull and short as it is Mt Eagle on 24 in TN is another one that will make the real trucks stand out in a field of amateurs, its a short pull but its 7.5% and curvy to add to it. I dont think those out west truckers have any idea what a real hill is they have long pulls but they are straight as an arrow compared to east coast hills and not as steep, at least all of em I have been on(several). I hear ya on the 1693 clatter, they sound like theyre coming apart till they warm up dont they, the 3408 is a good engine when its right but they have issues like all the big engines do and they are getting even more rare than the E9 so there is little to go by for comparison, I kow where there are 3 and 2 KT600 Cummins engines, which from what I have been told by the old timers are the baddest thing on wheels till a head gasket goes and they always go, any engine with 6 individual heads and I think 6 bolts per head not run at constant speed in equipment as it was designed will have issues. I would love to have a KT truck and a 3408 in the driveway with the E9 all I would need then is an 8V92TA and I would have em all.

I hear you for sure, I Know were a kta is that was having issues that was pulled out of a superliner but i would say it is in need of alot now some parts gone and set outside in the weather for years. If i ever get out your way i will let you know and would love to go for a cruise in that big dawg, i was out that way a few months ago we went to baskin truck sale and got the ch there, on the other side of nasville, i don't know how close we were but we were way out 40, and thanks for the invite, if you ever get close to jellico tn or williamsburg let me know, i may not be able to take you for a ride in a impressive truck but i can show some, and around, and if it is at home and not on a job we can ride the ch around and maybe check out my buddys superliner if it ever gets out of the engine shop!

[rsb502]

I hear you for sure, I Know were a kta is that was having issues that was pulled out of a superliner but i would say it is in need of alot now some parts gone and set outside in the weather for years. If i ever get out your way i will let you know and would love to go for a cruise in that big dawg, i was out that way a few months ago we went to baskin truck sale and got the ch there, on the other side of nasville, i don't know how close we were but we were way out 40, and thanks for the invite, if you ever get close to jellico tn or williamsburg let me know, i may not be able to take you for a ride in a impressive truck but i can show some, and around, and if it is at home and not on a job we can ride the ch around and maybe check out my buddys superliner if it ever gets out of the engine shop!

10-4, maybe Ill run that way on my trip to PA for some shows next year.

[Apple dog]

Wait, wait, wait. I got an idea. How bout yanking that kitten outta there and dropping a perfectly good ole Detroit Diesel in where it came out from.

Ben

Do you know what a Detroit and a green banana have in comon? Neither one is worth a durn until they turn yellow.

[slpwlker]

Do you know what a Detroit and a green banana have in comon? Neither one is worth a durn until they turn yellow.

That just made my day.