Engine Finally Back

[ThaddeusW]

What a crazy week I had. Monday august 20th I get a call informing me my close friend of 20 years Dominick Jaksic died in a car crash. I went to his parents house and helped get the funeral ready. Wednesday went to the wake and then got ready for my road trip. The up side was I made the trip not only to get the engine but to get my other good friend Joe up in Lakemoor Il. Thursday I left and made it to the Vickery Ohio area and spent the night. The I80 was backed up in pa dead stop for construction. Sat for about 1.5 hours. Friday arrive in Peru IA around 4pm and the guy had a good laugh about me bringing a cargo van. The engine made it in but he broke the intake manifold elbow that bolts on so it can be replaced. Left Peru and headed down 24 to I65 and man I headed into a storm that was total white out. Get to the I80 and take it west only to hit yet another traffic jam. I call my friend who says there is serious flooding on the 80 thanks to the storm. well two hours later it opens back up and UI now find out something I never knew before. Apparently the divider barrier on the 80 is water tight. The water was about 4 inches from the top of the barrier on the opposite side. Finally we start moving and I get to my friends house around 10:30. We leave around 12 and see 2 accidents on our way to the 80. Again we hit traffic because of the flood. I creep down until the next exit where I got off went down and around the traffic and get back on 80. While im on the 80 I pass a truck that went off the road down the embankment and into a field. Must have just happened because there wasn't an emergency vehicle in sight and the trucker set up cones. If he fell asleep at the wheel that sure woke him up. Made it to the Ohio border where we caught 4 hours and continued to his grandmothers house in Ellicott City, MD. He hasn't seen her in years and his parents decided to surprise her with a visit from him. Go out that night have some fun and get sleep. Sunday we leave and get to NJ where we met up with some friends and then went home.

What a trip, 2035 miles total the longest drive I have ever made. I got to admit the 3500 van handled the weight pretty good. brakes held up nice too but the hills in PA were a real pain.

Well on to the engine:

Looks like its been sitting for more then 3 weeks, more like 3 decades. Turbo seized, generator barely turns, triplex compound linkage frozen solid but the water pump and fan spin freely, yay. Don't know bout the crank.

My question is what voltage would the starter be? I dont want to try to turn it over only to let the magic smoke out of the starter.

Also how hard should it be to try to wiggle or turn the crankshaft by hand if the transmission is in neutral? If the engine is seized up my first try should be to try and remove the injectors to peer into the cylinders right? Now how does one go about that? I see two bolts but is there anything more? The engine still isn't out of the van yet but hopefully tomorrow or the next day I will have some more time to get it out.

[b61fred]

hi,

the starter should be 24 volt, should be a small tag on the starter to verify voltage if you like. The crank should turn by hand, see if you can give the harmonic balancer a good twist with both hands it should turn. If the engine is seized it has been my experience to go ahead and remove the cylinder heads, why?? I have found out that if the cylinder is rusty and you get it broke loose, all the rust and carbon pile up ontop of the pistions and with the high commpression of the diesel, will bend the rods when all the trash on the top of the pistons tries to be compressed. It wouldn't be a bad idea to check the valves to see if they are stuck open by a valve guide sticking. I assume you will be making a stand to run the engine on???? If the engine is too far gone and can't make it run you could make a cut away out of it and take it to truck shows, that would be neat....

Fred

[Rob]

What a crazy week I had. Monday august 20th I get a call informing me my close friend of 20 years Dominick Jaksic died in a car crash. I went to his parents house and helped get the funeral ready. Wednesday went to the wake and then got ready for my road trip. The up side was I made the trip not only to get the engine but to get my other good friend Joe up in Lakemoor Il. Thursday I left and made it to the Vickery Ohio area and spent the night. The I80 was backed up in pa dead stop for construction. Sat for about 1.5 hours. Friday arrive in Peru IA around 4pm and the guy had a good laugh about me bringing a cargo van. The engine made it in but he broke the intake manifold elbow that bolts on so it can be replaced. Left Peru and headed down 24 to I65 and man I headed into a storm that was total white out. Get to the I80 and take it west only to hit yet another traffic jam. I call my friend who says there is serious flooding on the 80 thanks to the storm. well two hours later it opens back up and UI now find out something I never knew before. Apparently the divider barrier on the 80 is water tight. The water was about 4 inches from the top of the barrier on the opposite side. Finally we start moving and I get to my friends house around 10:30. We leave around 12 and see 2 accidents on our way to the 80. Again we hit traffic because of the flood. I creep down until the next exit where I got off went down and around the traffic and get back on 80. While im on the 80 I pass a truck that went off the road down the embankment and into a field. Must have just happened because there wasn't an emergency vehicle in sight and the trucker set up cones. If he fell asleep at the wheel that sure woke him up. Made it to the Ohio border where we caught 4 hours and continued to his grandmothers house in Ellicott City, MD. He hasn't seen her in years and his parents decided to surprise her with a visit from him. Go out that night have some fun and get sleep. Sunday we leave and get to NJ where we met up with some friends and then went home.

What a trip, 2035 miles total the longest drive I have ever made. I got to admit the 3500 van handled the weight pretty good. brakes held up nice too but the hills in PA were a real pain.

Well on to the engine:

Looks like its been sitting for more then 3 weeks, more like 3 decades. Turbo seized, generator barely turns, triplex compound linkage frozen solid but the water pump and fan spin freely, yay. Don't know bout the crank.

My question is what voltage would the starter be? I dont want to try to turn it over only to let the magic smoke out of the starter.

Also how hard should it be to try to wiggle or turn the crankshaft by hand if the transmission is in neutral? If the engine is seized up my first try should be to try and remove the injectors to peer into the cylinders right? Now how does one go about that? I see two bolts but is there anything more? The engine still isn't out of the van yet but hopefully tomorrow or the next day I will have some more time to get it out.

Hi Thad, glad you made it home. Sounds like a real adventure.

The crankshaft should roll over easy with the trans in neutral. This assumes it is not locked up from sitting. With the turbocharger seized up, there has been a lot more sitting than advertised. To pull injectors, remove bolts you mentioned before and use two rolling head pry bars and pry the injectors from the head(s). I actually have a slide hammer that threads on for doing this but the pry bar trick works well. Any injector shop will have the copper washers for when you reinstall the injectors. You can then use one of the borescope lights that are commercially available to peer into the cylinders if you like. Since it appears that the engine has sat exposed for some time, it would be a good idea to dump atf into the cylinders upon removal of the injectors to get some lube to the rings and cylinder walls before attempting to crank the engine over. The starter is 24 volt so two 12 volt car batteries wired in series will roll it over. I've started a lot of engines on the floor, just ensure you have some kind of bracing in place so it doesn't roll on you. Unless you hook up a radiator or some type of heat exchanger, you con only run for a couple mineuts before things start gettin hot.

Hope this works for you.

Rob

[Lmackattack]

Sorry to hear of your friend. thats never a good thing to deal with..

You were 5 mins from my house when you stopped in Lakemoor would have invited you over for a quick chat before you hit the road. The engine sounds like it has been sitting. to pull the injectors I would almost say you will need the slide hammer to get them out. They are a real PITA if they rust up a little.

[mackmixer]

Sounds like you have had a very stressful week. Glad that you made it home safely.

I agree with everything that has been said above. Of course the safest route is to pull the cylinder head, but if you just don't want to go to that much trouble, you may be able to prybar the engine at the flywheel to see if it will turn any. I have used and would recommend ATF and a light penetrating oil in the past and let it soak over night before turning it very far. Should be able to oil the valve train around the valve springs that may soak down on the valve guides also. Of course on a gas engine removing the sparkplugs is easier than removing injectors with a diesel.

While working on an old 1930's 4 cylinder gas IH engine that was on a sawmill many years ago, we pulled it the head. Wasps had built "dirt dobber" nests in one of the cylinders. They came through the old updraft carburator that had no filter on it and down through an open intake valve!! That would have really made a mess if we had not opened it up. So if the intake port has been left open you could have this or rain water to boot. Does it look like the intake has been protected or is it shielded through the turbo somewhat?

On my old Mack with a 6 cylinder Cummins, it turned freely for a few degrees, so I just hooked up a 12 volt battery to it boosted with a car alternator running and turned it over with little apparent damage. However, when I went to change the oil in it after running it off and on for several hours, I found a couple of small chips of gear teeth in the drained oil. I am guessing this was from the gear driven injector pump that may have been frozen. I don't know how long the Mack had been sitting, several years I think, but she fires right off now. I am only driving it around the farm, no serious trips with the bad tires, yet.

So it is a matter of how much time and money you want to invest in it and when.

Best of luck,

David

Edited August 30, 2007 by mackmixer

[ThaddeusW]

Trent,

I didn't know you were that close! I wanted to post Monday about the upcoming excursion but the bad news threw me off. I would have definitely met up with you.

Well if the engine isn't too far gone I will build a stand out of 2x2 1/4 inch tubing and 1000 pound dumpster casters. I tried to turn the crank by hand and it doesn't seem like it wants to budge. The turbo intake elbow was still installed and a bottle shoved into it which isn't going to keep water out so I have no idea about the cylinders. I have 2 die pry bars which will help me yank the injectors.

If the engine is started without the turbo it should start and run but with allot of smoke due to too little air in the cylinder correct? Who knows if the turbo will ever spin again but I will try my best to get it spinning.

The triplex linkage is frozen up but the main seems to operate smooth. From what I feel the 2nd and third gear shift smoothly. The output shaft can turn by hand but I don't know if the compound is stunk in gear or not. Where is the name plate on a triplex?

Oh there are 2 linkages going to the injector pump, one out of the back side and another one further back. Is one the throttle and the other the shutdown lever? Both seem to move freely which is a good sign. The starter I am guessing is an inertia type with no solenoid.

Everyone thinks I am crazy but I didnt want to see an old 673 and triplex go to the scrap heap. Hopefully I cant get it running.

[chris88]

The fuel rack in the pump is probably stuck which is no big deal to fix but thats one of the last things i would worry about. What are your plans for it? It really shouldnt be a big deal at all to pull them heads off with the motor on the ground. Just gotta figure out a way of lifting them. Theres some weight in them heads.

[ThaddeusW]

The fuel rack in the pump is probably stuck which is no big deal to fix but thats one of the last things i would worry about. What are your plans for it? It really shouldnt be a big deal at all to pull them heads off with the motor on the ground. Just gotta figure out a way of lifting them. Theres some weight in them heads.

I have an engine hoist thats good for 1500 pounds. So lifting some modestly heavy stuff isnt a problem. I just need to make a stand for it.

[Andy Wright]

Thad, sorry to hear about your friend.

Hope the engine work goes well. A 673 is always a good thing to have! Back in November, a mate and me were in Melbourne at a friend's timber yard. Barry had noticed the rad fan vibrating on the B615 and since Gav was taking it a show the next day, we thought it prudent to replace it/bearings (I held the tools). We scavenged bits off two other V8s Gavin just happened to have lying around! As we were leaving, his latest acquisition, another 615, turned up! Amazing and always good to have engines handy!