stev Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 ok, about a week or two ago, i was reading a thread, likely off the forum home page, so i dont know where it was rooted, and it discussed clutchless shifting (after using the clutch to get in first gear).i believe there was discussion about hitting 1500 RPM, and other details i am not clear on.i intended to go back and read it again, and see if it applied to my situation (1988 T2090 transmission), or if it was particular to some other combination.so, you think i can find it? think searching for 1500, or rpm, or shifting, or clutchless, causes me to find that thread?so, can someone point me to that thread, or even explain it to me here . . . . Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/28372-clutchless-shifting/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
slpwlker Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 ok, about a week or two ago, i was reading a thread, likely off the forum home page, so i dont know where it was rooted, and it discussed clutchless shifting (after using the clutch to get in first gear).i believe there was discussion about hitting 1500 RPM, and other details i am not clear on.i intended to go back and read it again, and see if it applied to my situation (1988 T2090 transmission), or if it was particular to some other combination.so, you think i can find it? think searching for 1500, or rpm, or shifting, or clutchless, causes me to find that thread?so, can someone point me to that thread, or even explain it to me here . . . .Trial and error. try from 1500 upwards. You'll find the rythm and groove Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/28372-clutchless-shifting/#findComment-146258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Run it up to 1600+, let off the fuel so there is no torque on the trans, pull it out of gear, one to two second delay and it should slide into the next gear. Down shifting requires reeving in neutral to mate moving parts. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/28372-clutchless-shifting/#findComment-146260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifth wheel Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Don't use the clutch, it has been over 40 years and not about to change.FW Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/28372-clutchless-shifting/#findComment-146263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatcity Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 What motor? Some like to run up to 2100.About that point you can let off the throttle, and shift. Every motor is a little different, so you have to watch tach and listen. soon, you won't even look at tach. just hear it Quote Success is only a stones throw away.................................................................for a Palestinian Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/28372-clutchless-shifting/#findComment-146264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb502 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I have heard that rpm tossed around for years people tell you what rpm to run the engine up to to make it shift, fact is if you learn the truck and let the truck tell you when to shift it works fine no matter where the rpm is, I have just give the truck some throttle and as the torque starts to drop and the tension on the driveline eases I shift, running a truck to 2100 rpm to shift it is a complete waste of fuel and actuall y just makes it harder to shift, go find me a Mack or any other engine that is in a truck today that makes its peak torque at 2100rpm. Once the torque is played out all those extra rpm's are just wasted fuel and wear and running an engine that far out of the power band makes doesnt let the rpm drop back into the power band so you just wind it out again and dont really use the torque of the engine. I say this anyone that has the opportunity go take a loaded truck and wind it out in every gear for a half a day, then for the rest of the day give the truck about half throttle or so and as you feel the torque start to settle down, shift and you will keep the engine in the power band it was made to run in and I will bet you that you will gain speed faster, burn less fuel, your oil will hold up longer, you will maintain speed on hills better and you wont be nearly as stressed at the end of the day, Ill bet running like that you will never get anywhere near 1800-2100rpm, it will be more like 1400-1600rpm. So who will take this challenge to heart, Ill also note that when I started driving a truck I drove the crap out of em, I ran em till they wouldnt go any more and I had to sit back and listen to the old guys and watch them drive and see how much less fuel they used and how they always kept a smile on thier faces before I finally got it a few years later but I finally got it and I hope I can help others learn too in the years to come. Quote "Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH" "You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/28372-clutchless-shifting/#findComment-146283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb502 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Oh and no clutch thats just silly! Quote "Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH" "You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/28372-clutchless-shifting/#findComment-146284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
slpwlker Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I have heard that rpm tossed around for years people tell you what rpm to run the engine up to to make it shift, fact is if you learn the truck and let the truck tell you when to shift it works fine no matter where the rpm is, I have just give the truck some throttle and as the torque starts to drop and the tension on the driveline eases I shift, running a truck to 2100 rpm to shift it is a complete waste of fuel and actuall y just makes it harder to shift, go find me a Mack or any other engine that is in a truck today that makes its peak torque at 2100rpm. Once the torque is played out all those extra rpm's are just wasted fuel and wear and running an engine that far out of the power band makes doesnt let the rpm drop back into the power band so you just wind it out again and dont really use the torque of the engine. I say this anyone that has the opportunity go take a loaded truck and wind it out in every gear for a half a day, then for the rest of the day give the truck about half throttle or so and as you feel the torque start to settle down, shift and you will keep the engine in the power band it was made to run in and I will bet you that you will gain speed faster, burn less fuel, your oil will hold up longer, you will maintain speed on hills better and you wont be nearly as stressed at the end of the day, Ill bet running like that you will never get anywhere near 1800-2100rpm, it will be more like 1400-1600rpm. So who will take this challenge to heart, Ill also note that when I started driving a truck I drove the crap out of em, I ran em till they wouldnt go any more and I had to sit back and listen to the old guys and watch them drive and see how much less fuel they used and how they always kept a smile on thier faces before I finally got it a few years later but I finally got it and I hope I can help others learn too in the years to come.While this is true for the most part I have driven some that the rpms just lingered for a bit and when you got it down to shift you damn near lug it.Each truck is different and it just takes practice. i can short shift this or I drag it out. Terrain plays a big difference in how I shift. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/28372-clutchless-shifting/#findComment-146285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 1600-1700 applies to a Maxidyne. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/28372-clutchless-shifting/#findComment-146301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 The Eaton Aotoshifts are a computer matching the rpm's and air cylinders moving the shift forks without using the clutch. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/28372-clutchless-shifting/#findComment-146302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
leversole Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Never drove with a load...but with a 175 rpm drop between gears with a triplex...I can shift just about wherever I want, it has (besides a few f-ups every now and then) become almost second nature, once you get used to it, you won't even think about the tach...normally I come down my driveway in 1 L and as I get to the bottom, shift up to 2 D to pull out on the road and skip every other gear...today, I pulled out in the road in 1 L and shifted all fifteen, I think the first shift was around 1300...progressing rpm with every shift,,,I was driving like I had 80,000 on the back! What a blast! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/28372-clutchless-shifting/#findComment-146307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vision386 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Personally i have never used the clutch (other than starting,stopping and backing up) i get a much smoother shift without it,don't even know if i'd be able to "double clutch" at this point! it just takes some practice,all trucks/trans. are different,and will respond differently,of course weight,terrain,weather conditions etc. are all factors. Every Mack i've ever driven seemed to run better without using the clutch,but maybe thats just me,i don't know.....................................Mark 1 Quote Mack Truck literate. Computer illiterate. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/28372-clutchless-shifting/#findComment-146418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer52 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Occasionally I try to shift my MH without a clutch. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. To me the linkage is the issue. Anyone have thoughts/suggestions? Quote Ken PRR Country and Charter member of the "Mack Pack" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/28372-clutchless-shifting/#findComment-146420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vision386 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Occasionally I try to shift my MH without a clutch. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. To me the linkage is the issue. Anyone have thoughts/suggestions?I had the same problem with mine,i had the linkage re-bushed with polyurethane inserts,and kept a close eye on everything (tight,clean,greased etc.) and it was never much of an issue after that,mine was a Mack engine, E-6 400,but a 13 speed Road-Ranger trans................................................Mark Quote Mack Truck literate. Computer illiterate. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/28372-clutchless-shifting/#findComment-146421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer52 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I had the same problem with mine,i had the linkage re-bushed with polyurethane inserts,and kept a close eye on everything (tight,clean,greased etc.) and it was never much of an issue after that,mine was a Mack engine, E-6 400,but a 13 speed Road-Ranger trans................................................MarkMark - thanks for the advise. Did you get the bushings from Mack? Other areas of linkage wear? My MH has about 800K miles (EM7-300 and T2050). Quote Ken PRR Country and Charter member of the "Mack Pack" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/28372-clutchless-shifting/#findComment-146425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lmackattack Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 The old maxidyne with 5 speeds I always ran them up to 1800 for easy shifts on the hiway or 2100 when racing my buddies. Once you learn the truck you should be able to shift smooth. I will admit that the lower the rpm the smoother the shift is. And the clutch is for starting only! Play the stop lights right and you will need it only half as much as you normaly would. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/28372-clutchless-shifting/#findComment-146450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 If I remember correctly, with the five speeds, you need a few more revs in fourth and then wait for what seems like forever to get it in fifth. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/28372-clutchless-shifting/#findComment-146453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lmackattack Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 If your loaded, 1-2-3 are real quick and can be short shifted. wind out 4th to about 2000 then shift. it falls back to about 1250 and the boost comes up a little quicker and goes back to work for ya. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/28372-clutchless-shifting/#findComment-146458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmolitor Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Lmackattach.Thats exactly how I shift mine. If you don't run 4th out to 2000rpm you lug really bad in 5th loaded. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/28372-clutchless-shifting/#findComment-146716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1958 F.W.D. Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 I absolutely, positively cannot shift my FWD without double clutching. No matter how hard I try, no matter what I do, it just cannot be done. Quote TWO STROKES ARE FOR GARDEN TOOLS Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/28372-clutchless-shifting/#findComment-146717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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