eaton gear flip?

[rsb502]

I think I have come up with an Eaton 13spd and I want to do the gear flip in the main box to make it a double OD, I have no idea which gears you flip and if you need anything else to do the flip but I like to do this stuff so I know whats done to my truck (and I can do it from then on for others) if anyone has input please let me know. thanks! I am printing off the rt/rto 12513 service manual now, I might be able to figure it out from the part numbers and what the differences are from the OD to the Direct but Ive always learned by doing and from watching others that already know what they are doing so if anyone can tell me wat to do Ill give it a shot. Before I hear it, yeah I think I have enough power with a cranked up E9 450 and 4.64 rears to pull it out ( more power soon to come hopefully, turbo injectors,pump timing).

[Lmackattack]

I think glen knows about this trick....hopefully he will see this.?

[Superdog]

you turn 4th and 5th around,but I wouldn't do it.The transmission in my blue '86 is a 14613 that was converted,and personally I hate it.I've always hated the whine you get out of a Fuller,and this compounds it.Plus,unless you have at least a 15713 with a cooler,you'll turn that trans. into scrap metal behind the E9.If your'e wanting to go faster,change the rears.

[Bollweevil]

To answer your question. 4th and 5th speed gears have to be pressed from both counter shafts. It takes a really good press. Then you swap places with them. They are keyed to the shaft so that part is simple. How easy it is depends on what you have to work with. Do one shaft at a time. Due to PTO issues, identify the counter shafts as to left and right when you strip the transmission, and make sure they go back in the same place. Counter shafts are timed to the main shaft, Looking at the front of the counter shaft and using the key way for a guide, remark the counter shaft for reassembly. On some of the really old Fuller transmissions you might be able to swap places with the head gear, or main shaft 5th and main shaft 4th. In your case, you will probably have to buy a new head gear, with the same number of teeth as the old main shaft 4th. This is due to differences in machining, as the head gear and the input shaft are locked together with a snap ring. You will also need a need a new 5th gear with the same number of teeth as the old 4th. If I have confused you, You must remember that you changed the order of progression on all of the sub assembly's. Before reassembly, mark the new head gear for timing purposes. You can do that with a dab of paint on one tooth, does not matter where you start, count the teeth divide by two and mark the other side, You need the same number of teeth on each side of your marks.

[burnin oil]

From what I have read the 5&6 series transmissions are a direct flip around of the head gears. I have never personnaly done this but have been keeping an eye out for a 13spd at the right price to do this myself in a 5500. Would get me away from a twin stick setup which should have alot less rotational loss in the drivetrain. Glenn will caution you against this swap in a working truck as it does mess with the ratios a little as far as progression goes. Glenn is a smart guy that has done this before in a working truck. Although not a big fan of it I have seen him say it is alright for a hobby truck. I pulled Glenns opinions from several posts over on the ATHS board.

[slpwlker]

This was done to a 10 speed my dad had in an old cornbinder. He didn't do it or have it done it was bought already like this. It would of been great for a road truck. I don't remember the progression that steep, But I didn't know then what I know now. It was not worth a flip for a dump truck. Have driven 8LL's like that and 9 speeds. never had to many problems

[rsb502]

Thanks for the info, the trans I found is an rtlo18613, I'm working on a deal well see if he comes off it in the next week, I have been looking for an 1800 or 2000 lb ft 13 or 18 since I got this truck I just like more gears than the nine has and I knew I needed a big torque trans for what I plan to do to the E9. I have also been looking for a set of rears to swap in the 3.86 -4.17 range but I hate to put a bunch of money into rears i have to change spiders in or change my torque rod setup for, I thought Phil at global had a set for me he was getting checked out that we could trade I know somebody can use my 44k 4.64 carriers.

[slpwlker]

With my RTLO20918B Idk what the final is in it but with 4.11's on tall rubber flat out 94 mph at 2200. just tore ass down a Farm Road in Tx last week to remember what it strolls at

[rsb502]

Yeah its got the same od as my nine speed, what kills me are the 4.64 rears, I can run about 72 wound completely out at 2150 but I want to run 68 at about 15-1600 that's where the E9 makes the other motors look like 4 bangers on a hill.

[theakerstwo]

Thanks for the info, the trans I found is an rtlo18613, I'm working on a deal well see if he comes off it in the next week, I have been looking for an 1800 or 2000 lb ft 13 or 18 since I got this truck I just like more gears than the nine has and I knew I needed a big torque trans for what I plan to do to the E9. I have also been looking for a set of rears to swap in the 3.86 -4.17 range but I hate to put a bunch of money into rears i have to change spiders in or change my torque rod setup for, I thought Phil at global had a set for me he was getting checked out that we could trade I know somebody can use my 44k 4.64 carriers.

The RTLO can not be turned around because it is a O/D in the front box already.The back box unlike a RTO has no O/D. It has a U/D and a direct in the aux section.

[rsb502]

I can't actually remember but I didn't think there were many od back boxes, I know any 9 or 10 spd based trans is od in the front, which ones are od in the back if I could find an od back box I would swap the shafts and put it on my 9 spd to get my double od. I know 13/15 and 18 are under back boxes, I think 8LL is under back box too, what has an over back box?

[rsb502]

you turn 4th and 5th around,but I wouldn't do it.The transmission in my blue '86 is a 14613 that was converted,and personally I hate it.I've always hated the whine you get out of a Fuller,and this compounds it.Plus,unless you have at least a 15713 with a cooler,you'll turn that trans. into scrap metal behind the E9.If your'e wanting to go faster,change the rears.

I hear ya on the scrap tranny, I have a 14609b in it now and my plan is to change it so I don't kill it, that's why I thought I would kill two birds with one transmission, and its a hobby truck I'm not hauling with it so I don't think id kill it that easy unless I broke it in half doing a burnout or something. I think the 1810 driveline is stronger than a 14609!

[theakerstwo]

I can't actually remember but I didn't think there were many od back boxes, I know any 9 or 10 spd based trans is od in the front, which ones are od in the back if I could find an od back box I would swap the shafts and put it on my 9 spd to get my double od. I know 13/15 and 18 are under back boxes, I think 8LL is under back box too, what has an over back box?

In the older trans any RTO11513,RTO12513,RTO14613,Or 613 will be over drive in the rear but direct in the front. The RTLO will be direct in th rear with ubdrive and then the over drive will be in the front but thses are different boxe from the RTO

You can find a RT or RTO 9 and 10 speed but the RT will be direct in the front and the RTO will be over in the front. You can put most 12513 rears box as well as a 14613 box on the rear of a 9 speed o/d or d/d. How ever you can come up with a RTOO by using a 9 speed o/d front and a 14613 rear but with the RTOO you may have some messed up splits unless you change some gears out. The RTOO14613 and the RTO613 have many different geats from each other. Many have taken a RTO and flip th front gears and built RTOO but in the end they hate their self if its a truck you live in ever day. I know your going to hear guys that has done it and like it but i have seen it done and built one for may self and did it from the parts that is used from the factory to build right nd that is the only way to go. Get the parts books out and compare the difference in a RTO and a RTOO.

[theakerstwo]

You will find in the past a RT12513 which was direct ib both boxes but was not many around.

[oilburner]

Well i drove a superliner with a rto15613 that was fliped, and it had a 3406b cat in it. The truck has 4.63 ratio in the rear. The truck would do about 82 mph at 2250. The trans did not give much trouble althougth it did get built once because it was making a lot of nosie and he just didn't want to blow it apart. The truck had tall 24.5 rubber on it also and many times it grossed over 100,000 lbs pulling a pitts 40 foot log trailer and to be honest probley close to 120,000 grose a few times. The tranny worked good the only fault i had to it with loads like that and the places i had to bring them out of it did not really have a good low hole but it would pull out with what ever you put on it's back, just a little harder on the drivetrain and clucth. I have herd of people putting a rto13 speed back box on a rtx1469b trans but you have to buy the main gear because a direct trans and a overdrive trans have a difrent gearmess on the back. But anyway, as far as it being a bad trans. for a working truck, it just takes some getting used to, and really you need a pretty big engine, because it would be useless with a small engine say under 400 hp unless it was really geared to the drit, i mean you would probley never get it in the big hole loaded and probley be in your direct gear alot. But the one i ran is still in that old mack and if things don't change i will probley be back in the seat of it before long getting it sticky again LOL, right 84 superdog, hell maybe i will just change my cb handle to sticky, it sounds better than fieldrat, maybe my user name on here to HaHA.

[oilburner]

I can't actually remember but I didn't think there were many od back boxes, I know any 9 or 10 spd based trans is od in the front, which ones are od in the back if I could find an od back box I would swap the shafts and put it on my 9 spd to get my double od. I know 13/15 and 18 are under back boxes, I think 8LL is under back box too, what has an over back box?

The 14 and 15 series all the way up are a overdrive back box unless it is a rtlo. they are overdrive in the main trans and a under direct in the back box like the maxitouqe 13 and 18. The 8LL is pretty much a rtx9 speed with a 15 deep reduction back box on it. If you had a rtx1469 tans you could get a rto 14613 speed rear box and put on your tans, you just have to get a back gear that will fit them both. If it is a rto then the back box is a overdrive and if it is a rtlo the back box is underdrive and a overdrive main box, this is my understanding anyway some correct me if i am wrong.

[rsb502]

Well alright, I never can kep all the eaton tranny stuff straight they make too many models, I notice people are saying the rt"L"o is the od front box and the rto is od back box know the L in rtlo is for low inertia I have an rtx 14609 that is od in the main box so I dont kow if the L has anything to do with it or not but Ill find out one way or another, I guess Ill look for an RTO14613 in a junk pile somewhere and try the back box on my rtx14609B maybe itll hold up to the E9 if I can make it happen maybe not.

[theakerstwo]

The x is a o/d front box with a x top cover meaning it turns around the mostion of you stick movement for top two gears.

[rsb502]

The x is a o/d front box with a x top cover meaning it turns around the mostion of you stick movement for top two gears.

well now I know, they have so many different models and parts I'm surprised they still support parts for most of them.

[Sesap]

Hello I have a weird question. I want a .60 overdrive ( give or take some) and I have access to a few straight tens but that's all I know about them.  Could flipping gears in get me were I need to be?  I have put bearing kits and press shafts apart in some farm dumps so I feel confident doing the work I just don't want to tear down Trans just to find out I started with the wrong one. My project is a 87 k30 Chevrolet (square body ) with a mechanically  injected duramax I have a sae 3 bell adapter although I know I need to go to sae2 also have a 14"clutch plate and flywheel for it with a 1-3/4" 10 spline input only problem now would be starter .  I am running 33" tires with 4.56 gears. I want to stay 4.56 for getting loaded gooseneck moving but I also need to be able to run 80mph on interstates (unloaded) plus how cool would a ten speed be in a pickup 

my main question is what Trans should I start with 1st 2nd 3rd options as I'm on a major budget that's already gone 

[theakerstwo]

First of all is ask your self if the engine will pull a load 80 MPh.

[RedBullDog]

It will take away some HP to turn the big shafts in a truck transmission, will the small displacement motor be up for that?  Also going to need a source of air for range shift and/or a splitter.  I've never heard of a gear flip on a 10, but that would be a large jump from 1:1 down to ~.60:1, require some grunt! 

Preferably, there would be a ratio somewhere in between, or a Maxidyne up front