Gmerrill0516 Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 We have an 8LL in the roll off with an E7-427. The 8LL has issues where 3rd/7th pops out of gear unless you brace yourself against the lever. I'm guessing it is a detent failure as it is otherwise quiet and shifts ok. I found a guy with a good used "10 speed maxitorque" transmission for sale at a good price. One thought was to swap in the 10 speed and save the rebuild expense. The other idea was to skip 3rd and 7th and drive it. The truck is kind of critical to the operation so having it quit would be bad.Would the two transmissions be interchangeable without shortening the drive shaft and bolt right in or would modifications be necessary? Any idea how big a deal it is to dig into the 8LL?Again, thanks for any ideas, knowledge and suggestions.Greg Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
smorse54 Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 it would be a lot of work.The driveshaft would need to be shortened,you need different mounts,it may not have the same yoke,etc.It would be easier to fix the 8LL.It's probably a worn sliding clutch as well as the gear it mates to.With a repair manual it's not a bad job. steve Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-156039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackniac Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I'm not great mechanic but only for shifting you'd better be fixing the 8LL than having a shitty 10 . my 02 cents Quote Makniac , collector and customizer of die-cast model in 1/50th scale Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-156164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb502 Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 We have an 8LL in the roll off with an E7-427. The 8LL has issues where 3rd/7th pops out of gear unless you brace yourself against the lever. I'm guessing it is a detent failure as it is otherwise quiet and shifts ok. I found a guy with a good used "10 speed maxitorque" transmission for sale at a good price. One thought was to swap in the 10 speed and save the rebuild expense. The other idea was to skip 3rd and 7th and drive it. The truck is kind of critical to the operation so having it quit would be bad.Would the two transmissions be interchangeable without shortening the drive shaft and bolt right in or would modifications be necessary? Any idea how big a deal it is to dig into the 8LL?Again, thanks for any ideas, knowledge and suggestions.Gregthat is a common problem in an 8LL most truck shops can handle that pretty fast and pretty cheap, I had one done and I know of about 20 others around here that had the same issue, dont wait too long pushing on the shifter to hold it in gear will move the gear farther than it is supposed to go and wear on the gears get it fixed ts not as bad as you think it takes 4 parts to fix I think it cost me $450 to get mine done. Quote "Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH" "You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-156215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb502 Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I'm not great mechanic but only for shifting you'd better be fixing the 8LL than having a shitty 10 . my 02 centsnothing wrong with a Mack 10 spd, the gear steps in the 10 actually make it easier to drive loaded in high range than an 8LL, I like the Mack 10's I have driven I had one straight 10 and a 310M multi speed reverse that one was nice in a dump truck you could shift all thru low range in reverse to get the perfect gear. I dont think it would be a great idea to swap it out but the reason is you could have that one fixed in a day for less than what it would cost to get the parts and the driveshaft done to swap em out. Quote "Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH" "You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-156217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stacksuperdog Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 We have a 2001 RD with a E7-350 with an 8LL and it does the same thing and i still think the Avon Mountain crash was caused by the same problem because we know a bunch of people with the same specs as our RD and their 8LL have the same problem. Also the truck was up at Gabrielli Mack 3 times and they kept saying it was poppet springs and balls until the warranty ran out and then changed forks, complete bearing kit, and sliding clutches and expected us to pay for it and it still jumped out on the way home from there Quote Matt Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-156309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb502 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Well I guess there are a bunch of shops that don't know how to fix it, I'll get the parts list if I can find it, takes about an hour after you get to the tranny. I think one of em they fixed in the truck. Quote "Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH" "You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-156399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackniac Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 nothing wrong with a Mack 10 spd, the gear steps in the 10 actually make it easier to drive loaded in high range than an 8LL, I like the Mack 10's I have driven I had one straight 10 and a 310M multi speed reverse that one was nice in a dump truck you could shift all thru low range in reverse to get the perfect gear. I dont think it would be a great idea to swap it out but the reason is you could have that one fixed in a day for less than what it would cost to get the parts and the driveshaft done to swap em out.Sorry I meant a Fuller 10 speed not a Mack one I did missread the post properly . I do have a 12 speed mack and she is good to me. Quote Makniac , collector and customizer of die-cast model in 1/50th scale Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-156410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb502 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 fuller 10 speed will be shorter than an 8LL it doesnt have a compound reduction back box, it will fit right in the same hole and use the same shifter,etc. but you will have to lengthen the first driveshaft section 4 inches. I would fix the 8LL you will miss the Double low 14.45 gear, the rtlo 10 spd has a 11.06 low gear its a huge difference off road. 1 Quote "Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH" "You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-156495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Trucking Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 fuller 10 speed will be shorter than an 8LL it doesnt have a compound reduction back box, it will fit right in the same hole and use the same shifter,etc. but you will have to lengthen the first driveshaft section 4 inches. I would fix the 8LL you will miss the Double low 14.45 gear, the rtlo 10 spd has a 11.06 low gear its a huge difference off road.Bingo!!!!!That's the comment I was gonna make.A 10 speed won't have a deep enough reduction in low gear for a loaded roll off truck to start off in soft ground without abusing the clutch.. Quote "If You Can't Shift It Smoothly, You Shouldn't Be Driving It" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-156507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb502 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Bingo!!!!!That's the comment I was gonna make.A 10 speed won't have a deep enough reduction in low gear for a loaded roll off truck to start off in soft ground without abusing the clutch..Thanks for the props and might I say I concur with.... "If You Can't Shift It Smoothly, You Shouldn't Be Driving It" Quote "Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH" "You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-156515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
storkmack Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Thanks for the props and might I say I concur with.... "If You Can't Shift It Smoothly, You Shouldn't Be Driving It"I tell guys that a Mack transmission is for a driver that knows how to properly shift. Any one can smash and grab with a slop box Eaton/Fuller.-Brad Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-156519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer52 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Thanks for the props and might I say I concur with.... "If You Can't Shift It Smoothly, You Shouldn't Be Driving It"Hey I resemble that remark! Quote Ken PRR Country and Charter member of the "Mack Pack" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-156611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxidyne237 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I tell guys that a Mack transmission is for a driver that knows how to properly shift. Any one can smash and grab with a slop box Eaton/Fuller.-BradWell said! I agree 100% Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-156619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speed Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 "If You Can't Shift It Smoothly, You Shouldn't Be Driving It" Nothing like a blast of Ego to humble the masses. I'm not the greatest at shifting by a long shot,but unlike all of you,I wasn't born with "the touch",I've had to work at getting better and shifting smoother. Doesn't help that most of what I've driven has been without a tach (or ANY gauges in a couple of trucks) and have had mis-matched boxes (common on ranch trucks around here,where they use whatever is lying around to get the truck back to work.) I applaud your talent and pious nature! Speed Quote "Remember-ANY Gun Control is Unconstitutional!"<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i><b>MACK-E Model Registry # 36</b></i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><a href="http://www.nvabatetravel.com/"target="_blank">http://www.nvabatetravel.com/</a> Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-157171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb502 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 "If You Can't Shift It Smoothly, You Shouldn't Be Driving It" Nothing like a blast of Ego to humble the masses. I'm not the greatest at shifting by a long shot,but unlike all of you,I wasn't born with "the touch",I've had to work at getting better and shifting smoother. Doesn't help that most of what I've driven has been without a tach (or ANY gauges in a couple of trucks) and have had mis-matched boxes (common on ranch trucks around here,where they use whatever is lying around to get the truck back to work.) I applaud your talent and pious nature! Speed Ha, well if we didnt have the EGO goin we wouldnt be able to say we had been truck drivers havent you ever heard of a trucker tale? On the subject of a tach they can make you worse let the truck tell you when to shift give it a little throttle and when the engine has made its torque it will settle down and the driveline will get some slack then shift, dont try to shift by engine speed it just doesnt work that way to shift smooth you gotta let the truck do the work and just do what it tells ya, and thats not me talking that was my friends grandfather that taught me to do it in a GMC Brigadier with a 6V92 and a 9 spd, then it was a Brigadier with a 240 cummins and a 13 spd (old chrome knob with 3 position switch) then an old R with a 2 stick 5 speed, and so on and so on till now and the new trucks SUCK! Quote "Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH" "You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-157235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFCDrum Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 All 8ll's pop out of third gear eventually. I never liked the 8ll in a Mack it never really matched right with the engine. In other makes it is a fine trans but in a Mack it never seemed right. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-157241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Trucking Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 "If You Can't Shift It Smoothly, You Shouldn't Be Driving It" Nothing like a blast of Ego to humble the masses. I'm not the greatest at shifting by a long shot,but unlike all of you,I wasn't born with "the touch",I've had to work at getting better and shifting smoother. Doesn't help that most of what I've driven has been without a tach (or ANY gauges in a couple of trucks) and have had mis-matched boxes (common on ranch trucks around here,where they use whatever is lying around to get the truck back to work.) I applaud your talent and pious nature! Speed Not being egotistical at all, anyone who knows me personally knows I'm not like that. I just cringe when I hear a transmission being abused by someone that doesn't know what they're doing, hence that tagline on my posts.If you don't like what I post, then don't read it. Quote "If You Can't Shift It Smoothly, You Shouldn't Be Driving It" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-157298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb502 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 EGO! Ha! LOL! I love it here.... Quote "Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH" "You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-157391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speed Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I get it now. Just try to remember some people just aren't as good at shifting as you are,YET. But as long as they try,cut 'em a little slack. (I do know a couple of guy who don't really CARE if they scratch gears all day;people like THAT-I agree,they should take up Golf or something. I'm kinda like that when I watch a four wheeler get all messed up on an easy hill. It's like,"Jeeze,dude-either go home or let your WIFE pick the route!" Speed Quote "Remember-ANY Gun Control is Unconstitutional!"<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i><b>MACK-E Model Registry # 36</b></i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><a href="http://www.nvabatetravel.com/"target="_blank">http://www.nvabatetravel.com/</a> Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-157410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb502 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I hate the grinding too but I think I hate the sound of an engine being wound out worse, I see guys everyday that put it to the floor and wait till it wont go any higher then wonder why it doesnt shift right and wont pull, its not hard to read the operators manual if you dont know what the hell your doing. Better than that just ask someone that does, I wouldnt know anything if I didnt ask questions any time I saw someone doing something I don t know how to do, I learned how to drive a forklift at 5, car/pickup at 8, school bus at 12, truck at 14 and so on and so on because I asked the people that knew to teach me. Everytime I hear a truck running wide open it makes me cringe I just think about my trucks and the guys I had driving them and I think about how glad I am I got out of the business. Quote "Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH" "You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-157480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speed Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I learned to drive at 10 yrs. old in an old Ford 800 with a Cat dozer on the back. I'd LIKE to say my uncle taught me,but He drove up to me and said,"I need ya to take that truck and follow me to the other side of the canyon-I'll drive ya back." He was gone before I could tell him I never drove anything before,so I learned on the way. (V-8,5 & 2speed) Scared the chit outta me crossing the railroad tie "bridge" at the bottom,it was a complete surprise to me,hidden by the willows until I was there,and about a V-W wide,and on a turn. I made it to the other side of the canyon okay and had the 2 speed figured out by then,so that became MY job for the Summer,when I wasn't learning how to run everything else he had. I really didn't mind coming home at the end of Summer vacation. One thing I do now id adjust the length of the shifter,and angle if I can,to give me enough feel to shift it accurately but enough leverage to not have to jerk it out of gear.(I can hear it already-"You shouldn't HAVE to jerk it out of gear." Remember,this is rolling junk in many cases. (That's why they're free,or close to it.) Real truck drivers would probably jump out of these rigs,slam the doors behind 'em (2 or 3 or more times) and go tell the boss where to stick his "truck-shaped-turd". Though I don't have a magic touch,I have never failed to get a truck from here to there under its own power,and never wrecked one. (THAT took some supreme efforts a couple of times.) Over all I figure I'm slightly above average,if only for being stubborn enough not to consider quitting an option. Speed Quote "Remember-ANY Gun Control is Unconstitutional!"<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i><b>MACK-E Model Registry # 36</b></i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><a href="http://www.nvabatetravel.com/"target="_blank">http://www.nvabatetravel.com/</a> Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-157499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackniac Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I try to shift smooth too but I still have problems some times ! I tried with the rpm, I tried with the sound of the engine and still sometimes grr grr on some speed especialy from 10 to 11 and 11 to 12 , goes better when loaded .I have a Mack 12 speed with an E7-400 1990 , will I stop driving cause of the grrr = no do I want to improve yes !do I try to improve = yes , the boss ( me ) is not always happy about that ! lol 1 Quote Makniac , collector and customizer of die-cast model in 1/50th scale Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-157622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilburner Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I hate the grinding too but I think I hate the sound of an engine being wound out worse, I see guys everyday that put it to the floor and wait till it wont go any higher then wonder why it doesnt shift right and wont pull, its not hard to read the operators manual if you dont know what the hell your doing. Better than that just ask someone that does, I wouldnt know anything if I didnt ask questions any time I saw someone doing something I don t know how to do, I learned how to drive a forklift at 5, car/pickup at 8, school bus at 12, truck at 14 and so on and so on because I asked the people that knew to teach me. Everytime I hear a truck running wide open it makes me cringe I just think about my trucks and the guys I had driving them and I think about how glad I am I got out of the business. Ok now your giving me hell!! LOL no i know your not but this was me a few weeks ago. I started useing the progressive shifting and not that i had problems grinding gears but you can make the shift faster it just falls in quicker, the mack trans does shift diffrent but i would not say harder, you just get used to it. The only problem i had when i frist got in it was making the shift to high range, it was like the shifter would not come out of the hole, but shifting at the low rpm helps. The 8LL trans to me is a very nice trans, you have a low low hole and it allso has a good overdrive. The 10 speed and 15 speed eaton do shift very smooth, but the 9 speed and 8 LL are proberly a little harder because of the ratio jumps in the shifts. The hardest trans i ever drove to shift was a 613 in a ford with a 3208 cat, that thing was awful to drive. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-157658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmerrill0516 Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 I was told to shift it at 1500 and no more as that is what a Mack likes...I do know that winding it tight gets me nowhere and it goes better at the lower rpms...I still like the quatraplex better...I guess I just need to spend the seat time and figure it out. Oh on more thing...no clutch after its rolling. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29264-will-a-10-spd-maxitorque-trans-fit-where-an-8ll-was-or/#findComment-157732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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