Mack vs. Volvo 11, 13, 16 L

[Red Horse]

Can anyone tell me what is common to these engines? Or is a better question, what isn't the same?-other than color?

[kscarbel]

There's no such thing as a Mack engine now. Only Mack-branded Volvo engines are available. The Swedes are of the opinion that their engineering is superior to Mack engineering (American know-how).

Volvo D11 = Mack MP7

Volvo D13 = Mack MP8

Volvo D16 = Mack MP10

Different color and software, that's all. The engines are produced by Volvo Trucks North America at the Volvo Powertrain plant in Hagerstown, MD (the former Mack Trucks facility).

What Volvo has done, reduce an American icon to a mere shell of its former self, should be a crime.

Vad Volvo har gjort, minska Mack till ingenting, bör vara ett brott.

[Red Horse]

There's no such thing as a Mack engine now. Only Mack-branded Volvo engines are available. The Swedes are of the opinion that their engineering is superior to Mack engineering (American know-how).

Volvo D11 = Mack MP7

Volvo D13 = Mack MP8

Volvo D16 = Mack MP10

Different color and software, that's all. The engines are produced by Volvo Trucks North America at the Volvo Powertrain plant in Hagerstown, MD (the former Mack Trucks facility).

What Volvo has done, reduce an American icon to a mere shell of its former self, should be a crime.

Vad Volvo har gjort, minska Mack till ingenting, bör vara ett brott.

Thx- I thought Hagerstown was still called a "Mack" plant. What about the transmissions? Those are built in Hagerstown too -as are the rears?

My fear is at some point, the Swedes will say...."duplicated effort- why do we have another marketing organization, why are we building ANOTHER cab structure, etc. etc. And someone will say.."yeah the old Mack customer base? Pretty soon they will all be gone". Case closed. Hope I'm wrong.

[kscarbel]

Volvo Group absorbed Mack Trucks on January 2, 2001. Mack Trucks' Hagerstown plant became a Volvo Powertrain facility to produce (mostly) Volvo components for the North American market.

http://www.volvotrucks.com/trucks/na/en-us/about_us/facilities_locations/volvo_powertrain/pages/powertrain.aspx

Volvo still produces some legacy Mack-era T300 transmissions, but Volvo typically promotes Eaton manuals and their own single countershaft i-Shift AMT transmission (deceptively rebadged as the Mack mDrive). So due to low volume, the superb Mack Maxitorque T300 triple-countershaft transmission is expensive, which inherently has a negative effect on sales (The writing is on the wall there).

At the time Volvo acquired Mack Trucks, Mack was designing an AMT version of the Mack T300 transmission. But Volvo shunned Mack engineering and terminated that project, favoring their single-countershaft i-Shift over the superior triple-countershaft Maxitorque transmission.

Volvo has had Meritor producing Mack rears since 2004, owing to a global contract Volvo has with Meritor.

The Mack cab is 26 years old now. Volvo will introduce a new global cab soon and Mack will get a narrowed version of the full-width COE version.

Today's Mack-branded truck is nothing less than North American Volvo chassis with a legacy Mack cab and hood. Volvo isn't trying to appeal to the old Mack customer base. Volvo is clueless about the value of the Mack brand, about why a Mack truck needs to actually be a Mack truck. The Swedes don't get it......not at all.

[Swishy]

De Volvo

de POOFTERwankerMOFOgayLEZZOsob

LOL

cya

§wishy

[Mackpro]

I'm just glad that Macks are still being made and I have a job working on them. Otherwise I wouldn't get to be putting these 6 new injectors in this MP-8 this morning!

[Red Horse]

Volvo Group absorbed Mack Trucks on January 2, 2001. Mack Trucks' Hagerstown plant became a Volvo Powertrain facility to produce (mostly) Volvo components for the North American market.

http://www.volvotrucks.com/trucks/na/en-us/about_us/facilities_locations/volvo_powertrain/pages/powertrain.aspx

Volvo still produces some legacy Mack-era T300 transmissions, but Volvo typically promotes Eaton manuals and their own single countershaft i-Shift AMT transmission (deceptively rebadged as the Mack mDrive). So due to low volume, the superb Mack Maxitorque T300 triple-countershaft transmission is expensive, which inherently has a negative effect on sales (The writing is on the wall there).

At the time Volvo acquired Mack Trucks, Mack was designing an AMT version of the Mack T300 transmission. But Volvo shunned Mack engineering and terminated that project, favoring their single-countershaft i-Shift over the superior triple-countershaft Maxitorque transmission.

Volvo has had Meritor producing Mack rears since 2004, owing to a global contract Volvo has with Meritor.

The Mack cab is 26 years old now. Volvo will introduce a new global cab soon and Mack will get a narrowed version of the full-width COE version.

Today's Mack-branded truck is nothing less than North American Volvo chassis with a legacy Mack cab and hood. Volvo isn't trying to appeal to the old Mack customer base. Volvo is clueless about the value of the Mack brand, about why a Mack truck needs to actually be a Mack truck. The Swedes don't get it......not at all.

Hmmnn. I wonder if that is why the literature is so sparse about frame specs. In the old days they would list PSI, Section modulus etc. Then again I just have a bunch of the glossy stuff they handed out at Macungie. The less specific they are, the easier it is to mask the commonality of the two. And if you are correct on the new global cab, that will make the case stronger to shut Mack down-hate to say it but that is typically what happens in most "mergers". My bet is people in the corporate structure are known as "heritage Volvo" or "heritage Mack". Guess who always has the upper hand.

[mackniac]

Volvo just bought 45 % of a Chinese company this will make them the #1 truck sellers in the world !

I wonder why you want to be #1 !! I'd rather be the best ! selling is a thing, staying on the road is something else .

[farmer52]

I wonder why you want to be #1 !! I'd rather be the best ! selling is a thing, staying on the road is something else .

It's not about being the best, it's about keeping the investors happy!

[dds92780]

I Love my E7 350 Fully Mechanical

[EM6285]

MACK MP-SERIES vs VOLVO D-SERIES

Hummmm ??? Other than COLOR, it has been explained that they are different in some other aspects such as programming, engine horsepower and torque ratings and parameters, they spin in opposite direction, MACK MP-SERIES are getting great reviews while Volvo D-Series are getting issues and complains.

It is the engine MACK has for now because MACK is tied to VOLVO. Could a group of AMERICAN investors be interested on taking MACK away from VOLVO and put BIG MONEY onto making MACK what it was before the merger with VOLVO? How much capital will be needed to bring back an ALL MACK diesel engine, chassis, AMT, drive train components etc????

MP-Series are getting positive words on each Trucking Forum I read, while its fraternal twin the Volvo D-Series receives more negative vibes. Do the MP-Series perform better than the ASET AC / ASET AI engines?

Same goes to the MACK M-Drive getting positive words when compared to EATON'S Ultra-Shift.

Should MACK build a complete AUTOMATIC transmission and get rid of ALLISON AUTOMATICS from the product line?

I wonder how a MACK Pinnacle tractor will do with ALLISON'S new TC10-TS tractor series automatic transmision.....

[2stacksuperdog]

Someone with A LOT of money needs to take the risk and expense to buy Mack from Volvo and rebuild it into the great truck it was at one time. We went out get parts for trucks that are in the late 80s the other day and the guy told us that ever since Volvo acquired Mack they have been trying to get rid of the trucks. They don't want to produce parts so they can sell new trucks. Mack don't even rebuild their own stuff he said if its older then a granite. The dealers themselves have to have private companies to do it. In my opinion Volvo has ruined the once great Mack name. I guess that might be one reason the newest truck we run is a '01 and the rest are in the '80s and anything we buy has a mechanical in it that you don't need a computer to fix.

[kscarbel]

Hmmnn. I wonder if that is why the literature is so sparse about frame specs. In the old days they would list PSI, Section modulus etc. Then again I just have a bunch of the glossy stuff they handed out at Macungie. The less specific they are, the easier it is to mask the commonality of the two. And if you are correct on the new global cab, that will make the case stronger to shut Mack down-hate to say it but that is typically what happens in most "mergers". My bet is people in the corporate structure are known as "heritage Volvo" or "heritage Mack". Guess who always has the upper hand.

That's not uncommon with the European truckmakers, particularly with Scania and Volvo. Which is to say the transition to sparse specs on Mack-branded literature at Volvo Trucks North America is to be expected.

So long as its worth their while to continue milking the Mack name for vehicle sales, they'll keep putting the nameplate on North American production chassis. But in the end, I'm sure Volvo wants all U.S. production to carry the Volvo nameplate (a combination of Swedish pride and human nature).

Ironcially, this reminds me of the last Autocars, which were nothing more than Volvo/Whites with an Autocar nameplate. Now there's another example of Volvo not understanding the US market. Autocar was the only brand that ever gave Mack serious competition in the vocational sector. And Volvo, not understanding the U.S. truck market, ruined and buried the brand.

And there's yet another irony involving Volvo. The Autocar name resurfaced on the White Expeditor that Volvo sold off, the only low COE to ever give the Mack MR some serious competition.

Volvo's intent has always been to migrate Mack product over to their global products platform. You saw that when Mack-branded on-highway models began using Volvo VN chassis in June 2004 (rebadged as Mack Advantage Highway Chassis). You saw it again when Granites began using the Volvo VHD vocational chassis (dubbed "Mack Cornerstone Chassis").

Volvo's strategy has been to buy out competitor and eliminate them (when they deemed the timing right).

First, Volvo bought White in 1981 and formed Volvo White Truck Corp. But despite buying into market share, Volvo struggled, being clueless on how to engage in the U.S. market.

Volvo then decided to buy into more market share and snub out another competitor by purchasing General Motor's heavy truck division in 1987, resulting in the WHITEGMC brand (Volvo GM Heavy Truck).

And finally, Volvo purchased Mack Trucks Inc. on January 2, 2001.

When the Mack-branded version of the new global Volvo cab is launched, today's typical Mack-branded highway chassis will be all Volvo and vendor components. Some vocational chassis will still have legacy Mack-designed T300 transmissions and rears.

[rsb502]

You know I remember a conversation lke this about Renault anyone remember them? So is an E7 a Mack engine? seems it had a Renault logo stamped on the block!

[2stacksuperdog]

Our '01 E7 has Renault and Mack on the block but when Renault got Mack they were trying to financially stabilize Mack where as Volvo is trying to destroy it.

[kscarbel]

On 1/31/2013 at 4:17 AM, mackniac said:

Volvo just bought 45 % of a Chinese company this will make them the #1 truck sellers in the world !

I wonder why you want to be #1 !! I'd rather be the best ! selling is a thing, staying on the road is something else .

Given that Volvo didn't purchase Dongfeng outright making it a wholly-owned subsidiary, nor did they purchase a majority stake or even a 50 percent position (the first two possibilities aren't possible but my point stands), it's rather arrogant of Volvo given their non-controlling minority position in Dongfeng to already be counting Dongfeng production as their own and claiming themselves to be in the new-found postion as the world's largest truck builder (by sales).

Let talk about Volvo over the last decade in the Middle Kingdom. Volvo spent millions on an ill-planned and fruitless 6-year journey in China. Volvo signed a 50-50 joint venture with CNHTC (China National Heavy Truck Corp, also known as SinoTruk) in March 2004 and proclaimed they'd produce 2,500 units in 2005 and 10,000 units in 2008. But Volvo didn't do their homework and learn the unique metrics of doing business in China. Volvo finally dissolved the relationship in 2010 after only building 1,000 (CKD) trucks, which were all sold at a loss!

In summary, from 2004 thru the present, Volvo management hasn't figured out how to get on the horse in China.

In China, you need the maximum allowed 50 percent share in a joint venture to have any chance at success. You need to be an active and astute participant (which Volvo wasn't at CNHTC - hence the failure from day one).

With just a 45 percent share, the actual situation is that Dongfeng feels Volvo has become a Chinese brand under Dongfeng Group in the world's largest truck market. Only a 50/50 JV could be respected in China as a cooperation of equals.

One thing's for sure about Volvo's engagement with Dongfeng, as at CNHTC, Volvo has no idea what they're in for.

Volvo Group President Olof Persson said at the the signing ceremony that he felt the arrangement was an excellent opportunity to achieve economies of scale in terms of parts sourcing for Volvo Group's truck operations. So look for Mack-branded parts to be coming from China in the future.

[kscarbel]

You know I remember a conversation lke this about Renault anyone remember them? So is an E7 a Mack engine? seems it had a Renault logo stamped on the block!

The E-7 was indeed a Mack engine.

[rsb502]

Hmm I remember a renault stamping on the block on one of my trucks I just cant remember which one, E-7 or ETECH, maybe I cant remember, I know the E5 in both its forms was Renault sourced.

[rsb502]

it was the 2000 RD with ETECH 350.

[jzack]

Maybe I'm a glass half full guy, but I think Volvo really does know and respect Mack to a certain extent. I mean here we are some 12 years into this and Mack is still here. A guy can still spec a "Mack" truck that has a Mack hood, cab, interior, transmission, axles, and an engine tuned and programmed by Mack engineers. These aren't just re-badged Volvos as some would say. No one in this global economy can go it alone anymore and this marriage has gone better than many others. In fact, if Volvo owning Mack "is a crime" than what GM did to Saab should be considered man-slaughter! Remember the "Trollblazer"? Simply a re-badged Trailblazer for the SUV shopping Saab faithful. No wonder Saab is dead!

Could Mack have been better without Volvo? Who knows? Maybe, but it could also have been worse than it is now, a lot worse.

[kscarbel]

MACK MP-SERIES vs VOLVO D-SERIES

Hummmm ??? Other than COLOR, it has been explained that they are different in some other aspects such as programming, engine horsepower and torque ratings and parameters, they spin in opposite direction, MACK MP-SERIES are getting great reviews while Volvo D-Series are getting issues and complains.

It is the engine MACK has for now because MACK is tied to VOLVO. Could a group of AMERICAN investors be interested on taking MACK away from VOLVO and put BIG MONEY onto making MACK what it was before the merger with VOLVO? How much capital will be needed to bring back an ALL MACK diesel engine, chassis, AMT, drive train components etc????

MP-Series are getting positive words on each Trucking Forum I read, while its fraternal twin the Volvo D-Series receives more negative vibes. Do the MP-Series perform better than the ASET AC / ASET AI engines?

Same goes to the MACK M-Drive getting positive words when compared to EATON'S Ultra-Shift.

Should MACK build a complete AUTOMATIC transmission and get rid of ALLISON AUTOMATICS from the product line?

I wonder how a MACK Pinnacle tractor will do with ALLISON'S new TC10-TS tractor series automatic transmision.....

As I said, the only difference is color and software. Software/programming includes "aspects such as programming, engine horsepower and torque ratings and parameters"

While all engines have their idiosyncrasies, and Volvo engines are not my favorite, I haven't read or heard of any significant issues. Throughout the world, they get the job done. Globally speaking, the engines from DAF, Iveco, Scania and Volvo are all solid performers. Push come to shove, I like the engines from MAN and Benz a bit more (M-B's new OM470/471/472/473 range is quite impressive).

The current Eaton UltraShift Plus AMT is a terrific transmission. Any bad experiences are with the old UltraShift DM3 (which used a centrifugal type clutch which engaged via engine speed).

The current UltraShift Plus uses an electric clutch actuator, so now the clutch can be engaged at idle, which significantly improves slow speed maneuvering.

The original UltraShift DM3 AMTs and the current UltraShift Plus are really two different animals. I have to fault Eaton for not creating an altogether new name for the current product, to avoid all the confusion.

I’ve operated both and can tell you the UltraShift Plus performs comparably with a Volvo I-Shift. In Africa, Australia and New Zealand where operating conditions can be quite severe, the Eaton AMT is king.

Unlike the inherently weaker single countershaft design i-Shift AMT, Eaton’s UltraShift Plus has the more durable twin countershaft design (as does the best-selling ZF AMT range in Europe).

No, I don't feel Volvo Trucks North America should design a conventional torque converter automatic transmission of their own. That's a niche market and Allison has always filled the role with a dependable product. While volumes for heavy truck applications are small, Allison is uniquely the option with virtually every global truckmaker for conventional torque converter automatic transmission requirements.

[kscarbel]

Maybe I'm a glass half full guy, but I think Volvo really does know and respect Mack to a certain extent. I mean here we are some 12 years into this and Mack is still here. A guy can still spec a "Mack" truck that has a Mack hood, cab, interior, transmission, axles, and a motor tuned and programmed by Mack engineers. No one in this global economy can go it alone anymore and this marriage has gone better than many others. In fact, if Volvo owning Mack "is a crime" than what GM did to Saab should be considered man-slaughter! Remember the "Trollblazer"? Simply a re-badged Trailblazer for the SUV shopping Saab faithful. No wonder Saab is dead!

Could Mack have been better without Volvo? Who knows? Maybe, but it could also have been worse than it is now, a lot worse.

How can you still spec a "Mack truck"? The chassis, including frame, fuel tanks and reservoirs are all Volvo components. The engine is Volvo. At best, all you can spec is a legacy transmission and axles.

Put another way, a truck produced by Volvo Group with (at the very least) a Volvo engine and chassis is NOT a Mack truck. No sir. Mack trucks were produced by the American company Mack Trucks and used Mack-designed "pedigreed" components from front bumper to rear crossmember.

Volvo is destroying what set the former Mack Trucks apart and above from the rest. Some veteran Mack parts and service representatives in recent years had the nerve to tell their new Swedish masters just that at internal meetings. They were fired. Feel free to validate what I'm saying with your regional Mack parts or service rep.

My friend, despite your good intentions, we can hardly compare Mack to Saab. But I will agree that GM had no more business owning Saab than Volvo has owning the Mack brand.

[mackniac]

It's not about being the best, it's about keeping the investors happy!

yeah I'm kind of sick of thoses famous investors ! soon they will have nothing is our coutrys falls to their knees.

[mackniac]

Maybe I'm a glass half full guy, but I think Volvo really does know and respect Mack to a certain extent. I mean here we are some 12 years into this and Mack is still here. A guy can still spec a "Mack" truck that has a Mack hood, cab, interior, transmission, axles, and a motor tuned and programmed by Mack engineers. No one in this global economy can go it alone anymore and this marriage has gone better than many others. In fact, if Volvo owning Mack "is a crime" than what GM did to Saab should be considered man-slaughter! Remember the "Trollblazer"? Simply a re-badged Trailblazer for the SUV shopping Saab faithful. No wonder Saab is dead!

Could Mack have been better without Volvo? Who knows? Maybe, but it could also have been worse than it is now, a lot worse.

Maybe Mack would have been gone without Volvo help , but it doesn't mean that Mack as to disapear under the name of Volvo !

[41180]

ive said this 1000 times . mack is better now than it was 10 yrs ago hands down. the mp series engines are the best engines available today. cummins is having tons of problems and so is volvo and international. lets see who would rather have a ac 460p mack engine or a mp8 505 hp. its not even close. its been 12 yrs since volvo took over mack . gmc white and autocar all were eaten by volvo. mack still remains. volvo even lets mack have the most powerful trucks .