Chris Sissick from Hanks Truck Pictures called us to the mat on Photo Linking

[57 bcr]

I'm all out of "likes" for today.But you guys hit it right on the head! Give credit where credit is due(like what has been going on all along),duh? If you got a problem with that,get rid of that dress you're wearing, and try Levi's and a flannel shirt!The business of asking permission for use of a photo of MY truck or anyone elses,is pure unadulterated BULLSHIT! IT"S A HOBBY,DAMMIT! Al

[thomastractorsvc]

Great response Barry, I am glad you are at the helm

[Green Dash]

That was a very well written response, Barry.

Thank You.

[Green Dash]

The disclaimer on this set of photos seems to contradict itself:

http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/dfaust.htm

Unlike the above picture-taker, This one does not mention anything about asking permission before posting his pictures.

http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/sissick.htm

[farmer52]

Non-commercial Use Only - isn't that what Barry stated in his messages? Or am I missing something?

[Barry]

Thank you Barry for responding to this matter in the gentlemanly way you did! i for one certainly appreaciate the effort,especially since it was my post/picture that seems to have caused the problem.............................................Mark

Personally,i thought this was about the old truck/Mack hobby,not a pissing contest,my intent of the thread was to show the varied trucks i grew up with in my beloved former home state,maybe educate and promote the hobby at the same time.

But evidently that is not how it was percieved. So i take full responsiblity for my own actions,and can assure all the members at "hanks" that NO picture will ever be used,copied,posted,looked at,sold or anything else (at least by me)

from this day forward! nor will the site be viewed (by me) or reccomended to anyone by me looking for a specific make/model photo as it has been in the past. I have always tried to include in any post where the picture came from,if not taken by myself,

credit where credit is due PERIOD! and just so you know,I HAVE e-mailed several of the members asking for permission to use a certain photo ,and have NEVER recieved a reponse from ANY of them,NOT ONCE!

So have no fear,i will not e-mail anyone over there anymore,just keep them! i could understand if we were using the pics to make money,or for some other unsatisfactory use,advertizing etc. but only for personal use? really? i would think the members

would be happy the pics are used in such a way, TO PROMOTE THE TRUCK HOBBY! guess i was wrong! i guess we are a different breed over here at BMT,and proud to be!................................Mark (AKA Vision386)

No problem Mark! You didn't do anything that any of us wouldn't have done ourselves! I know there is merit to some of this copyright stuff but the fact is that if someone doesn't want there photos shared and enjoyed then they shouldn't post them on the internet. Asking permission is fine and encouraged but can you imagine if we have all asked permission every time we re-posted an image from some where? My ISP would crash! LOL...and even then, you would be lucky to get 2-3 response from every 10 requests and maybe less responses giving permission. It's just not feasible...I still support the notion of not posting if you are paranoid about re-posts of your images! It's that simple. My beef is with these so-called enthusiasts that don't play well with the rest of us! Copyright laws are what they are but it's these types of self centered people that get me fired up! Don't worry, I have other ways to battle turkeys like Sissick and Faust and the rest of the photo posting picture whores out there! There are a few forum settings I can tweak to make us a little more private here!

Here is the final reply from Faust...as you can see, he is talking in circles now. My debate is done with him!

You are missing my point: Plain and simple (to me anyhow) IS IT TOO HARD TO ASK PERMISSION?????? I Have never denied anyone who has FIRST asked permission. Are your members that rude that they have no common courtesy? I too enjoy posting photos but I post MY OWN photos and when others submit photos to me I ASK if they mind if I post them to my pages. I then give THEM credit for the photos. I don't photoshop their name OFF the photos. Simple plain common courtesy. It is a shame that people like yourself feel that they can take anything they want when all they have to do is ask first.

I'm sure they are reading this thread...so feel free to continue telling them how you feel about their support for the real truck enthusiasts!

[220cummins]

At a local car show last year there was a gentleman walking around taking pictures of various cars and trucks. I didn't have any vehicles there but I noticed this guy because we were walking and looking pretty much at the same pace as he was shooting pictures. I didn't pay much attention after that. Flash forward to the last "big car show" of the season last fall, the same guy had a tent with pictures, t-shirts, and other memorabilia with various classic cars and truck on them. Some of the stuff had the same cars and trucks that I seen him photographing last spring....Now I know for a fact he didn't ask for premission to shoot unless it was after the fact? The worst part was when someone (who's vehicle he shot) asked for a copy of his merchandise he was selling he said sure for a PRICE!!! that's not right! Hell I'd be honored to have a picture of my truck(s) on a shirt or calender or something but atleast give me a copy of it free of charge!

[j hancock]

I have never spent much time looking at Hank's site because there are way too many pictures of Volvos.

If I did download a picture, I would follow their rules for individual use or non commercial use.

I think the problem is on their end. If this is such an issue for them, then lock the site so posted material cannot be removed.

I doubt "only" BMT members have lifted an image.

Jim

[thomastractorsvc]

After reading this I looked over my business law class research, he is being difficult and BMT has every right to post the picture because the thread meets all of the classifications for its use. The post was for comments, teaching and research. No alterations were made to the photo or copyright, was for non commercial use and the photos value is not diminished by its use.

Section 107 of the Copyright Act states that:

"the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include -

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work."

17 USC Section 107. http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107

[Barry]

After reading this I looked over my business law class research, he is being difficult and BMT has every right to post the picture because the thread meets all of the classifications for its use. The post was for comments, teaching and research. No alterations were made to the photo or copyright, was for non commercial use and the photos value is not diminished by its use.

Section 107 of the Copyright Act states that:

"the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include -

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work."

17 USC Section 107. http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107

Good post! This is exactly what keeps us safe from 99% of copyright issues! I'm no expert but this clearly defines BMT's usage of most images on the web.

[rsb502]

I'm glad someone posted the copyright law but seems they already have it covered with " non commercial use" in their own usage agreement, I'm pretty sure BMT is "non-commercial use". I can't help but think these may be the same guys that don't think "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" means you can have a gun. I would bet most that would argue about that pic when it clearly met their own posted criteria would argue about the second amendment, wonder if they know why "freedom of speech and expression" means? I gotta let this go I'm too tore up fighting the 2nd issue right now to deal with more stupid!

[rsb502]

What it means not why, damn phone!

[57 bcr]

I've noticed the truckpaper.com recentley put an end to downloading their images,without a watermark on them.I contacted them in an e-mail,and asked if there was a way I could get that removed,as I download truck pictures as a hobby.They simply said ,"NO"! Glad I downloaded the ones I did! I guess some folks just don't understand the value of reference material they provide.Oh well.At least we have BMT!

[Lmackattack]

Barry is that my truck in your sig? Wtf....where are my royalties? LOL !

[41chevy]

Thank you Barry.

Stupidity runs in all areas and unfortunately people interpet things by their egos and some by "artist and intellectual license"

Many years ago I had a 1938 I.H.COE fire truck painted as a U.S.N. Ford Island NAS truck from the time of Pearl Harbor. ( yes I did get DOD permission to use that} It was on display at the American Armor Museum on Long Island and is now at the Patton Museum. Over the years I've seen it on the Web, in a few Military Vehicle Magazines and even in the Military Fire House Calendar for December 2007. Some gave me recognition, some did not, but I always was proud to know people liked it enough to us it. The few coins made by people using the images was unimportant to me. People take life to seriously over petty things.

Daimler Chrysler a few years ago went after newspaper ads of private sellers using the terms MOPAR and HEMI {registered trade marks of Fiat/Chrysler corp} in their ads. The Bloomington Corvette Club went after people for using the term SURVIVOR {Copy righted by the National Corvette Society}.

Personally I'll generally ask permission, but I feel the response over Marks usage was Bullsh*t {registered trademark of the White House}

[Lmackattack]

Maybe we should email him and have him remove any of our trucks from his site. He did not ask our permission or have us sign a waiver for the pics of any of our trucks from the truck shows, after all they are our trucks ment to be enjoyed by us and those who appreciate them.

Good idea... There are a few of mine on there. Better yet just tell him to remove them and don't give him a clue to where they are at.. All these years i had respect for him and now find out He is a joke

[Barry]

Barry is that my truck in your sig? Wtf....where are my royalties? LOL !

Haha, you are correct! Our t-shirt artist drew that image from one of your photos! I'm probably in trouble with the artist for using the image also! LOL! Just can't win!

[Lmackattack]

I give full permission ,not that it was needed to ask anyways...I have more class than to complain that my truck was chosen to be shown off.its nice to know someone thought highly of my truck to use it as a mack dealer t shirt....

Cough....I would however like to know when more shirts are made. I would like to buy a few...cough...

[j hancock]

WHAT!!!???

That is the same truck? No Way!

The wheels are different.....no front nameplate.....and the blower indicates.....a Driptroit engine.....

Quick, I need my meds!

[Vladislav]

Barry, keep fighting!

I was off the site for a couple of days and missed a great lot.

All that seems to me as a bullshit.

Let us know - what a copyright product is itself?

Doesn't it need a registry of its unique individual properties?

I understand "Mack trucks" is the registred trademark.

But if you want to registry any trademark you need to go through special procedures including identification of doesn't this mark copy any other one or doesn't it too simple to be registried and protected. For example you can not registry just a circle or letter "A".

I can understand about author's property about some art subject as a big painitng or sculpture although don't shure about need of registry again. But simple photo shot of a common piece of sorround!...

I think there is the same way about picturing other guy's stuff. On truck shows etc. If you using commercial any objects those contein registred trademarks - that's wrong. If anything else - feel free!

[farmer52]

Barry, keep fighting!

All that seems to me as a bullshit.

Vlad - nice summary!

[james j neiweem]

Vision 386. I feel your pain but don't get overly bent out of shape- over one Hank's site pissant contributor

Mr. S---K.

99% of their contributors are decent sorts as far as I can tell.

[2stacksuperdog]

I like in the email where he says, "I then give THEM credit for the photos. I don't photoshop their name OFF the photos." Most of the photos on here have a name in them or typed above them i don't know maybe those guys are jealous of this awesome website and don't like us.

[57 bcr]

I like in the email where he says, "I then give THEM credit for the photos. I don't photoshop their name OFF the photos." Most of the photos on here have a name in them or typed above them i don't know maybe those guys are jealous of this awesome website and don't like us.

I think jealous is the right term there,2stack!

[Lmackattack]

Well I guess we Can add them to the list of people that we won't recommend . I respect anyones opinion but do feel sorry for such shallow minded people. He is not a true trucker or hobbiest in my mind..