Mack and Volvo - what's different?

[bbigrig]

We just bought 2 brand new Macks......My Family has been involved with Mack since the late 50's....... I grew up around them, have restored them, drove them, fixed them, and still love them.

Mack may have alot of Volvo in them and I have always had the option of going and buying a Volvo. But I don't, because Mack still represents a brand that I have pride in owning.

I am a firm believer that owning a Mack says something about a person.

Mack is still part of my fabric. It may be under "new managment" but still employs the same Mack people as far back as the 70's. So to me its still Mack. (If it was Cummins powered it could still be a Mack)

I just came back from a trip in one of the new Macks. Loved it!

As long as My new Macks will turn a buck and I can go buy more old Macks to fix up, My wonderful "circle of life" around Macks will continue.(My Daughters love Macks too.)

So reluctantly, Thanks Volvo for keeping the Mack Brand alive.

P.S. You will never see me owning one of those Swedish meatballs if I can help it!

Edited March 20, 2013 by bbigrig

[kscarbel]

I wouldn't consider the engine and emissions systems minor items.

Even if you have a complete Mack powertrain you have a Volvo engine, Mack trans, Mack rears built by Meritor and a gold bulldog. So in the end you have a Mack trans.

Volvo is here to stay not everyone might like it but is the truth we just have to learn to live with the change

First off, you don't 'have" to learn to live with anything. Do you "have" to buy a Cub Cadet-branded lawn mower that is made by MTD instead of International Harvester? No. Likewise, you don't have to buy a Mack-branded Volvo produced by Sweden's Volvo Group. No one cares more deeply about what's happened to the former Mack Truck Company than I. But sadly, that company no longer exists. The Volvo-produced Mack-branded product has no more attraction than any other truck brand.

You would hardly be a patriotic American to purchase a Mack-branded truck today given that Volvo is a Swedish company. Within a realistic perspective, I personally support American businesses. I don't care for Volvo, their products and people, nor the way they do business (the Iranians do though).

Obviously a truck produced by Volvo Trucks North America with a Mack nameplate is not a Mack truck.

The Mack-branded Volvo truck is NOT representative of a Mack Trucks product,

The Mack-branded Volvo truck is no longer representative of America.

For vocational, you have a Volvo chassis (deceptively rebadged as Mack Cornerstone), with Volvo wiring, fuel tanks and other Volvo global components. Then there's the Volvo engine (D11, D13 or D16) with red paint and a Mack-branded valve cover. Next we have a Mack or Eaton tranny with a Mack front and probably Mack rear axles. No, that's not a Mack truck. It's a Volvo-produced chassis with a few legacy components they acquired from the Mack purchase.

For on-highway, today's Pinnacle by Volvo Trucks North America typically doesn't have a Mack tranny or rear drive axles. It's a Volvo truck chassis (deceptively rebadged as Mack Advantage) with Volvo wiring, fuel tanks and other Volvo global components, a Volvo D11 or D13 engine, Volvo I-Shift or Eaton transmission and Meritor drive axles. The only legacy Mack components are (maybe) the front axle, and the cab and hood.

These two examples of Mack-branded products from Volvo Trucks North America have a Volvo content (by component value) of 50 to 80 percent. And when the US version of the new Volvo global cab arrives, that figure will rise to 70-100 percent.

If you want a Volvo, by all means, run out and buy one. It's not the best truck nor the worst. But never confuse Volvo's Mack-branded trucks with an actual American Mack truck.

As an American, I personally feel humiliated that the American truck industry's greatest icon for 100 years, Mack Trucks, "The Greatest Name in Trucks", has become a symbol of Swedish business success.

[Oso2]

It wasn't meant as a personal comment in any way, shape or form. Just an observation that cab sizes and the lifestyle expectations of truckers have changed over the last 30 years. Look at it this way: at one time a telephone was considered a luxury. But times change.

Also, we could argue about professionalism in truck drivers all day long. Or not - I might agree with you. But professionalism doesn't have a whole heck of a lot to do with cab size.

BTW I do find it a bit disconcerting that you refer to old time truckers as "clean." I tend to think of cleanliness in professionals as a given. I've never heard any one say, "I just got a new lawyer/acountant/financial planner. (S)he's very clean and professional." Just sayin'. (And yes, I've been in enough truck stops to know that these days cleanliness is not a given in the trucking industry).

Thank you for thinking I'm a throw back to the 70's (pre-deregulation). I wasn't even a twinkle in anyone's eye at that time. I did, however, learn this trade from men that were true truck drivers. Clean, professional, and timely.

[Oso2]

Try being a Canadian and looking at a Western Star. Navistar and Sterling left a few years ago. Mack had a plant in Oakville from '66 to '93. I believe that the last Canadian truck plant is the Kenworth medium-truck facility in Sainte-Thérèse, QC.

As an American, I personally feel humiliated that the American truck industry's greatest icon for 100 years, Mack Trucks, "The Greatest Name in Trucks", has become a symbol of Swedish business success.

[storkmack]

Cleanliness, to me, involves the person, the equipment, and the support staff. Every industry, and I mean every, has its dirtbags. I'm just saying that our company receives many compliments on our cleanliness/professionalism compared to other carriers that shippers/ receivers we go to get to see on a daily basis. If you so up smelly, wearing dirty clothes and a bad attitude, except to be treated like trash. -Brad

[220cummins]

You would hardly be a patriotic American to purchase a Mack-branded truck today given that Volvo is a Swedish company. Within a realistic perspective, I personally support American businesses. I don't care for Volvo, their products and people, nor the way they do business (the Iranians do though).

.

I would have to disagree. Buying a mack product today is very patriotic. You're supporting the AMERICAN workers in the Macgunie plant, the AMERICAN workers at the hq in nc, the AMERICAN workers at the dealerships and service centers, and all the satellite AMERICAN located suppliers. You will be supporting the AMERICAN economy.

Ask your International or Freightliner salesman if all of their trucks are produced in the USA like Mack? The salesman should say "no were an multi-national business with international production facilities some of which are located in North America". He actually means "we sell trucks everywhere and produce a large portion in MEXICO"

Regardless if Volvo is from Sweden, they have a large interest in the production,sales,service network that is located in the USA that directly effects the USA economy. Buy a Mack and be PATRIOTIC!

[MackMann85]

Totally agree! Buy a Mack and keep Americans working or buy a Freightliner or International or Kenworth or Pete and keep the Mexicans busy.

[Challenger]

I would have to disagree. Buying a mack product today is very patriotic. You're supporting the AMERICAN workers in the Macgunie plant, the AMERICAN workers at the hq in nc, the AMERICAN workers at the dealerships and service centers, and all the satellite AMERICAN located suppliers. You will be supporting the AMERICAN economy.

Regardless if Volvo is from Sweden, they have a large interest in the production,sales,service network that is located in the USA that directly effects the USA economy. Buy a Mack and be PATRIOTIC!

Well said, excellent post.

[kscarbel]

I would have to disagree. Buying a mack product today is very patriotic. You're supporting the AMERICAN workers in the Macgunie plant, the AMERICAN workers at the hq in nc, the AMERICAN workers at the dealerships and service centers, and all the satellite AMERICAN located suppliers. You will be supporting the AMERICAN economy.

Ask your International or Freightliner salesman if all of their trucks are produced in the USA like Mack? The salesman should say "no were an multi-national business with international production facilities some of which are located in North America". He actually means "we sell trucks everywhere and produce a large portion in MEXICO"

Regardless if Volvo is from Sweden, they have a large interest in the production,sales,service network that is located in the USA that directly effects the USA economy. Buy a Mack and be PATRIOTIC!

I appreciate and respect your thoughts. The salaries of U.S. workers at Volvo and Daimler, both foreign companies, do indeed help support a few local U.S. economies. No doubt about it. But you're looking at the small picture, as the bulk of the profits go overseas to Sweden and Germany (This being the inherent nature of a foreign company doing business in the U.S.).

Some misinformed individuals feel buying a truck from the two remaining American truckmakers, Paccar (Kenworth/Peterbilt)and Navistar equates to keeping Mexican workers busy. But nothing could be farther from the truth (they might actually be Volvo Truck North America PR employees, charged with monitoring the media for Volvo/Mack-related commentary and deflecting any negative press/commentary).

In doesn't take a Wall Street guru or rocket scientist to realize that the profits of U.S. incorporated companies are the pillars of the U.S. economy. Whereas foreign companies like Volvo and Daimler spend considerable amounts of time minimizing their tax exposure in our country so that the vast amount of their profits can go home to Sweden and Germany.

If your desire to support foreign countries exceeds your desire to support our own, then by all means, buy a Volvo or Mack-branded Volvo.

I'm at a loss as to how anyone can feel that buying a Swedish Mack-branded Volvo is being patriotic toward the United States. Do you feel you're supporting American companies if you were to buy a Toyota or BMW?

American-owned Paccar employs 13,000 employees and Navistar 16,900 employees, while Volvo employs just 950 people at Macungie and 1,300 at Hagerstown. It's not hard to see how meagerly Volvo creates employment opportunities in our country. But then again, Volvo has reduced a global icon to a mere shell of its former self.

Everyone knows my position on Mack Trucks. I want to see Mack trucks become American-owned once again, even if operating as a subsidiary of Paccar, Caterpillar or Oshkosh. I want to see American trucks dominate our highways again.

But let us now set the record straight now on the two remaining U.S. truckmakers, for anyone that says buying a "Kenworth or Pete keep the Mexicans busy" is either grossly misinformed or a Volvo employee.

I'm extremely proud of Paccar for their 73 years of consecutive profitability (only Scania compares), and for their tremendous growth in the global market. Not unlike the former Mack Trucks, they have seized the moment on numerous occasions. As displayed by Paccar's savvy purchase of European heavy truckmaker DAF, Paccar is moving forward aggressively and solidly in the global market.

Paccar has three plants in the United States and one in Canada to meet the U.S. domestic and Canada requirement (A U.S. company with U.S. employees building trucks for U.S. customers).

• Chillicothe, Ohio
• Renton, Washington
• Denton, Texas
• Ste. Therese, Quebec

Paccar’s DAF unit has three plants in Europe.

• Eindhoven, the Netherlands
• Westerlo, Belgium
• Leyland, UK

To support Paccar’s significant success in Australia, the company’s Bayswater plant (near Melbourne) has been producing Kenworth trucks since 1971.

Paccar’s plant in Mexicali, Mexico produced trucks for the Mexican domestic market was well as Central and South America. DAF-based Kenworth and Peterbilt medium trucks are also assembled here.

To better serve the fast growing Brazilian market, Paccar will open a new DAF assembly plant in Ponta Grossa, Brazil late this year.

In short, American-owned Paccar has become a massive global truckmaker to be reckoned with.

Navistar operates seven facilities in the United States. While they do build some Class 8s in Mexico (which I of course resent), they remain an American U.S. company with a huge U.S. footprint.

• Springfield, Ohio - Produces medium trucks, Workstar, PayStar, TranStar and MaxxPro military vehicles (production just shifted from Garland, Texas, the former Marmon plant).
• Conway, Arkansas - School bus components
• Tulsa, Oklahoma - School buses
• Huntsville, Alabama - Produces the MaxxForce 5 thru 10 (proprietary Navistar designs) and MaxxForce 11 and 13 (the MAN D20 and D26 produced under license).
• Barton, Alabama - LoadStar refuse truck production
• Melrose Park, Ill - Produces DT, Maxxforce 9 and 10 engines
• Waukesha, Wisconsin - The all-important foundry critical to any truckmaker

• Escobedo, Mexico - Produces the ProStar, and trucks for the Mexican domestic market and export.
• Cordoba, Argentina - 2.5L engines for Land Rover
• Canoas and Sao Paulo, Brazil - The former MWM plants produces small and medium diesel engines for Latin America
• Caxias do Sol, Brazil - Produced the set-back front axle 9800i for global markets

As for Freightliner, their trucks are produced in the United States. However like Volvo, they are a foreign company which I do not support, as their goal is to fully takeover the U.S. truck market and I don't intend to assist them.

• Portland, Oregon
• Cleveland, North Carolina
• Mount Holly, North Carolina
• High Point,North Carolina
• Gaffney, South Carolina

[REOGasMackDiesel]

Well if the Mack isn't a Mack because Volvo bought them in 2002, Than really you have than say Mack hasn't been Mack since 1980 when Renualt took over ! Sorry but that is how your math would end up working out to.

For me as long as it says "MACK" on it its a Mack !

Mike

[kscarbel]

Well if the Mack isn't a Mack because 0volvo bought them in 2002, Than really you have than say Mack died in 1980 when Renualt took over ! Sorry but that is how your math would end up working out to. For me as long as it says "MACK" on its a Mack ! Mike

Actually, Renault invested in and rebuilt Mack Trucks. Renault virtually gave Mack total operating autonomy (in those days, Mack was superior to Renault in heavy truckmaking). Ask any veteran Mack employee. Acting Mack President Elios Pascual from Renault earned the deepest respect from Mack employees, the likes of which vividly remind of the days of when the legendary Zenon C.R. Hansen ran Mack Trucks.

[REOGasMackDiesel]

 

Actually, Renault invested in and rebuilt Mack Trucks. Renault virtually gave Mack total operating autonomy (in those days, Mack was superior to Renault in heavy truckmaking). Ask any veteran Mack employee. Acting Mack President Elios Pascual from Renault earned the deepest respect from Mack employees, the likes of which vividly remind of the days of when the legendary Zenon C.R. Hansen ran Mack Trucks.

 

I don't care what they "thought" the title to "Mack trucks inc" said Renault so they are infact Renault's the cash went to the french. The medium duty cab overs all Renault trucks with Mack badging !

I'm sure if one took the time you could find tons of "Renault" items in a 1980+ Mack trucks. I bet you might find out the 1988+ E-Series engines all had "Renault" named copy writes and designs ;o)

Mike

[kscarbel]

   

I don't care what they "thought" the title to "Mack trucks inc" said Renault so they are infact Renault's the cash went to the french. The medium duty cab overs all Renault trucks with Mack badging !

I'm sure if one took the time you could find tons of "Renault" items in a 1980+ Mack trucks. I bet you might find out the 1988+ E-Series engines all had "Renault" named copy writes and designs ;o)

Mike

"you could find tons of "Renault" items in a 1980+ Mack trucks"

I absolutely respect your optinion. However due to your apparent lack knowledge on the subject, I'm unable to respond to your further.

[Oso2]

As far as I know, IH Prostar and 9400 production was moved from Chatham Ontario to Mexico.

Edited March 21, 2013 by ajoso

[Kiwitrucker76]

Mack is all American steel!!! Volvos are typical European plastic trucks, however i do own a mack QH6777RS which is a cab over model with a Renault premium cab on it. These were built in Australia and New Zealand after the MH was discontinued

[bts-4120]

It wasn't meant as a personal comment in any way, shape or form. Just an observation that cab sizes and the lifestyle expectations of truckers have changed over the last 30 years. Look at it this way: at one time a telephone was considered a luxury. But times change.

Also, we could argue about professionalism in truck drivers all day long. Or not - I might agree with you. But professionalism doesn't have a whole heck of a lot to do with cab size.

BTW I do find it a bit disconcerting that you refer to old time truckers as "clean." I tend to think of cleanliness in professionals as a given. I've never heard any one say, "I just got a new lawyer/acountant/financial planner. (S)he's very clean and professional." Just sayin'. (And yes, I've been in enough truck stops to know that these days cleanliness is not a given in the trucking industry).

yes but not all of us have to run coast to coast pulling a box or skate board to make a living. you have any idea how useful a 70" condo and wide cab is out in the woods?

[kscarbel]

As far as I know, IH Prostar and 9400 production was moved from Chatham Ontario to Mexico.

I believe the ProStar replaced the 9400i in 2007 (and the 9200i in 2008). When ProStar production ended in Chatham, Ontario in 2009, production shifted to both Springfield and Escobedo. But with the closing of Garland and that production shifted to Springfield, Navistar may have made room there my shifting all ProStar production to Escobedo.

[220cummins]

Who owns and produces trucks at their Saltillo Truck Manufacturing Plant? I''l give you a clue....this compaNy produces Cascadias. There have been complaints of the quality from day one. Recently Freighliner annoucnced it's 100,000 truck made in its Mexican Plants for use in country and export to Latin America,Canada and the UNITED STATES. Thats 100,000 trucks NOT made or supporting local economies here in the UNITED STATES. Now compare them to Mack. All exports to the world are made In MACGUNGIE,PENNSYLVANIA NOT -Santiago Tianguistencoedo de Mexico, Mexico OR Municipio de Saltillo, Coahuila Mexico like Freightliner.

Navistar- International ProStar Plus Class 8 on-highway tractor is produced at its plant in Escobedo, Mexico.

Those trucks and manufacturers make up a large portion of market share that are direct competitors with Mack. Mack has still made a profit and produces trucks to compete with these "American Owned not Swedish owned all the profits stay here companies." Granted the profits do stay here to a degree but what do they have to show for themselves? Shuttered Plants and jobs never to return. But hey maybe the big shots at Navistar or Diamler bought themsleves a bigger house (built by mexicans) or a new BMW or Mercedes. They might contribute some back to the economy but not the way a plant employing 1000 or more workers does when the trucks are made here on the US soil.

I am not, have been, or probably ever will be an employee of MACK,RENAULT,OR VOLVO so I have no vested interest in any PR or Web trolling for any such company. I am a owner,restorer,mechanic,driver,lover of Macks and US made products.

On the flipside, what if Volvo didn't buy Mack? What if Navistar or Daimler bought them? I will make a guess we wouldn't be talking about trucks currently being produced in Macgunie but talk about how they once were along with Hayward and Oakville. Times have changed, owners have changed, but a quality MACK IS STILL MADE IN THE USA. You have to give credit to Volvo for holding that part true. It could be way worse. Ask people who once worked at the Freightliner plant in Portland on how they feel of the Daimler plants south of the border....

[james j neiweem]

220. Good points! Not to mention the spill over effect to local and not local parts suppliers

and sevice providers.

[RowdyRebel]

What's the deal here ? ! "Maore storage" "bigger cabs" ? ! If you want a Cadillac go buy one ! Mack's are about creature comforts they are all about getting the job done. You would of been the farm bought tractors with cab's ! Mike

Exactly. When I'm in the truck, I'm in the truck to work. I don't need a seat that resembles a lazy-boy recliner. I don't need traction control, electronic stability control, ABS, automatic transmissions, or any other feature added to trucks these days to idiot-proof them. I can drive my own damn truck and don't need the truck trying to take over for me.

And I view drivers side air bags as a HUGE negative feature in a truck. I never have cared for them, and don't really need or want one in any vehicle I'm driving. None of my current vehicles have them...not even my pickups....and if I ever do buy a new-enough truck to have them, the first thing I'd do would be to physically remove them. They have a nasty habit of turning an otherwise minor fender-bender into a total-loss situation because of the damage they CAUSE to the interior of the vehicle...busted up dash, blown out windows, etc... Not only that, but when I'm out in the woods having a little fun (or at a job site or ridiculously rough haul road), the last thing I want to have to worry about is a particularly harsh dip, bump, or jolt causing my steering wheel to blow up in my face. If you don't want to chew on glass, wear a seat belt and most importantly DON'T CRASH!

[MackMann85]

yes, if our opinion differs from yours and we continue to support a brand we grew up loving we must be PR employees...what a dumb comment.

[Mackpro]

Sometimes I wonder why I even click on these threads anymore.

[storkmack]

Sometimes I wonder why I even click on these threads anymore.

I feel like I'm part of the problem. -Brad

[kscarbel]

Who owns and produces trucks at their Saltillo Truck Manufacturing Plant? I''l give you a clue....this compaNy produces Cascadias. There have been complaints of the quality from day one. Recently Freighliner annoucnced it's 100,000 truck made in its Mexican Plants for use in country and export to Latin America,Canada and the UNITED STATES. Thats 100,000 trucks NOT made or supporting local economies here in the UNITED STATES. Now compare them to Mack. All exports to the world are made In MACGUNGIE,PENNSYLVANIA NOT -Santiago Tianguistencoedo de Mexico, Mexico OR Municipio de Saltillo, Coahuila Mexico like Freightliner.

I’m sorry, somehow when I mentioned Freightliner’s plants at the end of that post you came under the impression that I was defending and/or promoting Freightliner? Otherwise you lost me.

I’ll say again that both Volvo and Freightliner are a foreign truckmakers which I do not support, as their goal is to fully takeover the U.S. truck market. German-owned Freightliner and Sweden-owned Mack's domination of the U.S. truck market is not good for America.

Aside from the 19-liter KTA600-powered Powerliner (pictured) and the company's decision to diversify its product line by selling Volvo Class 6 and 7 in the US (this all being when Freightliner was American owned), I've never been a big fan.

Anyway, since you want to discuss Freightliner, let’s put forth the facts about its plants.

Cleveland, North Carolina - Produces the Century Class S/T, Columbia, Classic and Classic XL. Also, the Argosy II COE is produced there for export to Australia, New Zealand and South Africa).

Mount Holly, North Carolina - Produces Freightliner Business Class models.

High Point, North Carolina - Produces Thomas Built Buses.

Gaffney, South Carolina - Produces custom truck chassis (walk-in vans, motor homes, school and commercial buses).

Portland, Oregon - Produces Western Star 4700, 4800, 4900, 6900 and mil-spec models (like the M915A5). (You mentioned Portland – they’re still building trucks but now Western Star instead of Freightliner models).

Saltillo, Mexico - Exclusively produces the Cascadia.

Santiago Tianguistenco - Produces Freightliner Business Class models, FLD Series, Century Class, Columbia and Coronado models for Mexico's domestic market, Central and South America as well as the US and Canada.

In summary, I don't like Daimler's ownership of Freightliner (and Western Star) any more than Volvo's ownership of the Mack brand. Foreign domination of America's truck industry is no good for our country (This is NOT how America over the last 100 years became the greatest country in the world).

I have no problem with a truckmaker building trucks in Mexico for Latin America (although for South America, I'd be producing in Brazil), but I resent any and all Mexican production being sold in the United States (quality levels are irrelevant).

[kscarbel]

yes, if our opinion differs from yours and we continue to support a brand we grew up loving we must be PR employees...what a dumb comment.

You have every right to support a foreign company doing business in the United States, if you so choose. By all means, go purchase a Volvo or Swedish Mack. It's your inalienable right and my opinion certainly won't stop you.

I grew up with Mack Trucks as well. However that legendary American icon truckmaker no longer exists. The sad reality is the Mack name now belongs to a foreign company called Volvo Group, of Gothenburg, Sweden (And don't just take my word for it - ask them).