Retro superliner

[brutis77]

I'd like to know what people think of this idea. First I highly dought I'm the first to think of this. I want to see mack have a retro line, I'd like to see them reproduce the superliner with all modern drive train emissions and all. I'd get red top and bottom with black fenders, mp8 505 with a mack18 speed, aluminum wheels all the way around, 50 rears, stainless coragated full fenders with twice pipes. Am i soft or do you think they'd sell, I'd rather have that than a pinnacle.

[2stacksuperdog]

That would be pretty cool and i think true mack people would buy them over a titan since they are better looking

[umodelnut]

Bring back the U model!!!

[brutis77]

Knew that was coming

[kscarbel]

Under Volvo, the Mack product range has narrowed considerably to just four models, down from sixteen.

Pinnacle - a compromise replacement for the R-model

Pinnacle Rawhide - mission unknown, certainly not a RWI-600/700 Super-Liner replacement

Titan - replaced the CL-700 (The Australian Titan looks 10 times better, why didn't Volvo go with that for the US?)

Granite - a compromise replacement for the DM, RB and RD-600

Terrapro - a low budget facelift of the tired MR

LE - An attempt at the dual steer market. Not a home run in the design department, not on target as the MR was (Unbelievable that it was NOT designed for integral AC - only an antiquated roof-top arrangement is offered)

Missing Models (or the equivalent there of):

RS-RL Value-Liner "II" (The Australian Trident comes to mind)

RWI-600/700 Super-Liner "II"

MH Ultra-Liner "II" COE for the U.S. AND global markets (where COE is the dominant heavy truck type)

MC "II" low cab forward regional LTL tractor and straight truck chassis

RD-800

DM-800

DMM-6006

RM-6006 / RM-4004

U Model "II" - a short hooded regional LTL tractor (Volvo Group gave the regional LTL business to the Volvo brand, the snub-nosed 113" BBC VNM, so the workers at New River Valley would have something to do)

Mid-Liner MS "II" COE cab medium-duty

Mid-Liner CS "II" conventional cab medium-duty

Next Generation CF "II" fire apparatus chassis (for long-term sales agreements to major body manufacturers)

MC "II" -based fire apparatus chassis (for long-term sales agreements to major body manufacturers)

Mid-Liner MS/CS "II"-based fire apparatus chassis (for long-term sales agreements to major body manufacturers)

[JTFormula]

I'd like to see a Mack medium duty truck to compete with the Class 6/7 segment. IH Durastar, Freightliner M2, Hino (which is gaining a huge market share right now), Peterbilt 325/330/337, Kenworth t270/t370, you get the picture.

Mack states the Granite is a Medium HD truck but the lowest GVWR is 50,000lb its over kill for most MD applications like towing or straight/box trucks. Volvo doesn't offer a MD truck either so it wouldn't be in competition with itself.

Yes it would be cool to come back with a retro line line R model or Superliner but reality is this wont happen. You want to improve sales? Get back into the MD market with a truck that can really compete. The Midliner wasn't a bad looking truck but with a Renault engine it wasn't truly a Mack product which I think was its demise.

[RFCDrum]

Years ago Volvo had a version of the WG that had a more mdium spec with a Volvo engine with exhaust brake and a Volvo 8 or 9 speed in her,

Cheers, Rob

[kscarbel]

I'd like to see a Mack medium duty truck to compete with the Class 6/7 segment. IH Durastar, Freightliner M2, Hino (which is gaining a huge market share right now), Peterbilt 325/330/337, Kenworth t270/t370, you get the picture.

Mack states the Granite is a Medium HD truck but the lowest GVWR is 50,000lb its over kill for most MD applications like towing or straight/box trucks. Volvo doesn't offer a MD truck either so it wouldn't be in competition with itself.

Yes it would be cool to come back with a retro line line R model or Superliner but reality is this wont happen. You want to improve sales? Get back into the MD market with a truck that can really compete. The Midliner wasn't a bad looking truck but with a Renault engine it wasn't truly a Mack product which I think was its demise.

I'm with you. The Granite MHD is just a decontented Granite, not a purpose-designed truck model (e.g. Freightliner M2) for the market segment intended. Hence Volvo can't reach the price point with it.

The Mid-Liner was a terrific truck. Sales fell only towards the end because Renault arguably waited too long to replace it, and when that did occur, under Volvo's reign in June 2001 with the Mack "Freedom", a high price made it uncompetitive.

(Plus, you have our high tariffs on imported trucks. Assembling the trucks in the US as Hino does, would resolve that disadvantage).

The Mack-branded "Freedom" (the European Renault Midlum with its Renault Premium-based cab) was too high end for the American market, a dramatic change from the utilitarian MS/CS/Manager it replaced (Nothing wrong with a more refined interior IF it's styled for the "American" medium truck segment and priced competitively). Volvo should have tuned down the cab interior's European flavor and price point. Compared to the European market, a U.S. market medium truck has less features and a resulting lower price.

• The "Freedom" wasn't properly market-adapted to the United States.
• The horrible looking front grille that Volvo chose for the U.S. market Mack-branded version ruined the appearance of the entire truck (The Renault version was much better). It's much easier to sell trucks that people find attractive.
• Volvo didn't market/promote the "Freedom" properly.

As a European-appointed truck lost in the U.S. market place, Volvo only sold the "Freedom" from 2001 thru 2003, a far cry from the Mack/RVI marketed Mid-Liner/Manager that sold solidly for 22 years from 1979 thru 2001.

[james j neiweem]

Hey Volvo dumb asses let Mack USA be truly independent. Austrailia has more independence and a better line up than the USA. If you kill off Mack Volvo just might go down the same road. IH, Paccar and Daimler can easily cover the market. In spite of Volvo thwarting Mack, Mack is pretty much hanging with Volvo in US sales.

[2 STICK PUPPY]

Volvo killed Autocar and they will do it to Mack

[yarnall]

Volvo killed Autocar and they will do it to Mack

Volvo killed Autocar, White, GMC Trucks and maybe more. White killed Sterling, REO, Diamond T. Mack killed Brockway. It never seems like a good idea to be owned by your competion. Mike

[41180]

MACK HAS CURRENTLY 8 MODELS NOT 4 : pinnacle axle forward

pinnacle axle back

granite axle forward

granite axle back

titan

granite mhd

mru terrapro

leu terrapro

yes it would be nice to see a modern superliner i think we will see it happen in the next few years . also i like the looks of the titan my brother gets compliments all the time on his his titan. they are awesome trucks, stop running down something youve never driven mr k scarbel. also volvo didnt kill the superliner mack did. i love the old trucks but to call a granite a compromised replacement for the rd is ignorant, i bet youve never even driven a gu with mp8 or mp7 engine. so much more comfortable and with up to 505hp and a great engine brake i mean come on man

[TozziWelding]

Give me a new RD with a 350 and a 12 speed and I will be a happy guy, AC and a good seat is all I ask for.

[kscarbel]

MACK HAS CURRENTLY 8 MODELS NOT 4 : pinnacle axle forward

pinnacle axle back

granite axle forward

granite axle back

titan

granite mhd

mru terrapro

leu terrapro

yes it would be nice to see a modern superliner i think we will see it happen in the next few years . also i like the looks of the titan my brother gets compliments all the time on his his titan. they are awesome trucks, stop running down something youve never driven mr k scarbel. also volvo didnt kill the superliner mack did. i love the old trucks but to call a granite a compromised replacement for the rd is ignorant, i bet youve never even driven a gu with mp8 or mp7 engine. so much more comfortable and with up to 505hp and a great engine brake i mean come on man

According to Volvo, the Mack brand has four "models", and I share the same opinion.

• Pinnacle
• Granite
• Titan
• Terrapro

Now friend, I didn't say the Granite was a compromise replacement of the RD (alone). Look closer and you'll see I said the Granite is a compromise replacement for the DM, RB and RD-600.

The Macungie-produced RWI600/700 Superliner II (utilizing the advanced Ultra-Liner chassis) was built from 1984 thru 1993. Mack Trucks Australia introduced the highly successful third generation Super-Liner III in 1996. Having missed a Super-Liner product for three years, U.S. Mack dealers indeed wanted a next generation Super-Liner as well. However at that time, Volvo had used its relationship with Renault (the result of their merger negotiations) to successfully replace the pro-Mack President Pierre Jocou with the pro-Volvo takeover Mack President Michel Gigou who was charged with keeping spending down until the acquisition could be accomplished.

And absolutely, when asking why the U.S. market didn't get a next generation Super-Liner as Australia did, the dirty pool that Volvo played at this juncture can't be understated. Volvo met with Marc Gustafson, Mack’s vice president of sales and marketing from 1992, and convinced him into being a traitor for the Volvo cause. Gustafson plotted with the ruthless Swedes at Volvo to conspire against Mack (the Swedes later double-crossed him – traitors usually get what they deserve).

The traitor Marc Gustafson is the first reason why Mack (U.S.) didn't get a next generation Super-Liner.

Gustafson abruptly left Mack in 1996 to become CEO of Volvo Trucks of North America. He betrayed Mack and used his privileged insider knowledge against Mack Trucks to help orchestrate Volvo’s takeover.

Note the time period - 1996. This is when Mack lost momentum and direction. At Volvo, Gustafson convinced Volvo Group that with his insider knowledge, he could deliver Mack Trucks into Volvo’s hands. And sadly, he contributed to that end.

(Renault-appointed Mack President Pierre Jocou responded quickly and took a hard stand against Gustafson’s defection. But Volvo then used its relationship with Renault (the result of their merger negotiations) to ease the legal battle against Gustafson, and abruptly replace the pro-Mack President Pierre Jocou with the pro-Volvo takeover Mack President Michel Gigou in 1996)

"stop running down something you've never driven mr k scarbel"

Hmm. My friend, you just don't know the half of it. And you worked for Mack Trucks how many years?

[kscarbel]

Volvo killed Autocar and they will do it to Mack

You are so right. The Mack name is merely a stepping stone towards Volvo's goal of global domination of the truck industry. In their minds, there's but one name and that's Volvo.

What Volvo has done, reduce an American and global icon down to a mere shell of its former self, should be a crime.

[bts-4120]

Give me a new RD with a 350 and a 12 speed and I will be a happy guy, AC and a good seat is all I ask for.

only problem it takes 450 of todays hp to do what a old 350 would do back in the day

[41180]

thats complete b.s. that volvo killed the superliner7 yrs before volvo took over. sorry i dont buy it. you make excuses for macks blunders of the 90s and blame volvo for everything. i can seee through all of it.you hate volvo yes i get it. but dont blame them for something they didnt do. in 93 mack stopped making the superliner which was a big mistake and in 99 they stopped the v8 nother big mistake. both pre volvo. wouldnt you say it was a dumb move to stop the superliner production in 93 and wait 3 yrs to try to to make a replacement for it. you dont stop making your flagship truck with no replacement . you just dont do stuff like that. its the same with the E9 you dont stop making your flagship engine and wait 4 yrs like you claim to come out with a replacement. mack stopped the superliner and bingo the market for long nose classic trucks exploded soon after it was a huge mistake that mack trucks allowed to happen, dont blame volvo. if anything atleast now a mack customer can buy a set forward axle long nose conventional with big power . i like volvos influence on modern macks .

[2stacksuperdog]

I still dont like Volvo.

[41180]

well i invite you any time to come up to vermont and drive a titan we have 2 of them. i think itll change your mind. the power and engine brake combo is far beyond any mack ive ever driven. yes a turned up E9 can produce tons of power but the engine brake on an mp10 is the game changer in mountainous terrain

[RFCDrum]

Logtruckman has some good points. So does KC. Though he is a mystery.

[kscarbel]

thats complete b.s. that volvo killed the superliner7 yrs before volvo took over. sorry i dont buy it. you make excuses for macks blunders of the 90s and blame volvo for everything. i can seee through all of it.you hate volvo yes i get it. but dont blame them for something they didnt do. in 93 mack stopped making the superliner which was a big mistake and in 99 they stopped the v8 nother big mistake. both pre volvo. wouldnt you say it was a dumb move to stop the superliner production in 93 and wait 3 yrs to try to to make a replacement for it. you dont stop making your flagship truck with no replacement . you just dont do stuff like that. its the same with the E9 you dont stop making your flagship engine and wait 4 yrs like you claim to come out with a replacement. mack stopped the superliner and bingo the market for long nose classic trucks exploded soon after it was a huge mistake that mack trucks allowed to happen, dont blame volvo. if anything atleast now a mack customer can buy a set forward axle long nose conventional with big power . i like volvos influence on modern macks .

Mack had planned to relaunch the E9 V-8 in 2003 (for the U.S. domestic market and Australia) with Bosch electronic unit pump (EUP) injection. Revisions allowed it to meet the latest EPA standards while delivering superb power and fuel economy.

However, Mack Truck engineering was snubbed by Volvo Group. Volvo cancelled the pedigreed Mack E9 from re-entering production, in favor of the upcoming Volvo D16 (deceptively rebadged as MP10).

So again, for the record, Hagerstown produced the last E9 V-8 engine in 2003. The Mack E9 was killed by Volvo Group, after having acquired Mack Trucks in 2000.

Friend, I'm just telling you the sad truth. And it is very sad. Volvo only wanted the Mack nameplate, seeking to finally penetrate the US market sucessfully (after buying out market competition White and GMC, and milking them as far as they'd go). Today, we have the Mack-branded Volvo-produced truck, a mix of Volvo global components including the chassis, powertrain, transmission and suspension. For any Mack person, it is truly sad to see what happened to "The Greatest Name In Trucks".

As for the Super-Liner, I've tried to outline the situation as clearly as possible, explaining why after the Super-Liner II ended production, the U.S. market did not get a Super-Liner III like the Australian market did three years later in 1996. From 1996 on, because of the Renault-Volvo merger issue (that you may simply not be aware of), Volvo was indeed exerting influence at Mack.

[MackMann85]

[quote name="kscarbel" post="186198" timestamp=

Hmm. My friend, you just don't know the half of it. And you worked for Mack Trucks how many years?

I interpret this as you saying you work or used to work for Mack. In which case it seems sad to me for someone to spend so much time bad mouthing a company he either gets a check or retirement check from. And if he/she still works there probably wouldn't thrill the union or human resources with the comments being made. At least that's how the office I work at would take it if you were bashing them in the public. Whether the check says Mack or Volvo I don't know but it still doesn't seem right to me.

[kscarbel]

I interpret this as you saying you work or used to work for Mack. In which case it seems sad to me for someone to spend so much time bad mouthing a company he either gets a check or retirement check from. And if he/she still works there probably wouldn't thrill the union or human resources with the comments being made. At least that's how the office I work at would take it if you were bashing them in the public. Whether the check says Mack or Volvo I don't know but it still doesn't seem right to me.

Question: What company have I spoken negatively about?

[TozziWelding]

only problem it takes 450 of todays hp to do what a old 350 would do back in the day

I know I drive an 88' in the winter doing snow, it will out pull the E7-427 in the CH any day.

[kscarbel]

I know I drive an 88' in the winter doing snow, it will out pull the E7-427 in the CH any day.

Did you ever have the opportunity to drive a 1970's vintage Mack R-model with the original "Cool Power" 300? It had the distinctive hood-mounted air scoop and an air-to-air tip turbine. The pulling power was just absolutely unbelieveable. You instantly realized the brilliance of pedigreed Mack engineering. Today's real world horsepower is indeed different than in the past.

I recall each dealer was allocated one Cool Power R-model and one Cool Power F-model, both with a unque gold paint scheme for launching the all-new 300 horsepower ENDT676 "Cool Power" Maxidyne concept. Compared with the launch of the 237 horsepower Maxidyne, Mack Trucks shocked the truck industry all over again with the game-changing 5-speed concept high-torque rise 300 horsepower Maxidyne. Cummins, Detroit and Caterpillar were all knocked off their rockers.

In the words of Mack engineers:

“The application of an advanced state-of-the-art air inlet system has produced a high specific output, high torque rise, heavy-duty diesel truck engine. By integrating a compact plate-fin air-to-air heat exchanger with the cooling air driven by a novel tip turbine fan, a 25% increase in power output has been achieved with minimal increase in mechanical engine loads. The use of an aluminum two-piece piston which prevents side thrust loading on the ring-carrying head section results in improved ring life and reduced oil consumption.”